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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

RyanthePirate

I would like to see a Boards.ie Consensus.

Economists agree that immigration has a net positive on the economy and this immigration is surely a wonderful thing for the county.

Agree/Disagree?

Mod:

I have updated the OP of this thread with a list of threadbanned users, I would advise posters to check on this before posting in the thread again or a forum sanction will be imposed for breaching same.

If you want to discuss your threadban feel free to PM the banning mod (or myself if you can't remember who that is and I'll point you in the right direction).

Threadbanned Users:
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Kaybaykwah

DelaneyIn wrote: »

The statistics back up his point.

Irish in Australia;

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/17/ireland-australia-land-of-plenty

Africans in Ireland;

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1107/1009164-esri_migrants/

Yes, but depends if you are talking about hosting people from Africa with few skills, and the unemployment numbers from that, or the fact maybe the qualifications are not enough to justify employment over an Irish born person for an employer. That has been a problem in Quebec in the civil service, a lot of folks are qualified, but don't find their way to employability, because there are some hurdles, and these hurdles are not moving out of the way that fast. In Montreal, more than a third of the population is visble minorities, but civil service jobs are really low percentage, and not moving up fast , in spite of 2nd, 3rd generation educated youth.

Obviously, young Irish immigrants that moved to Aus Can US UK are better educated than many, even European emigrés.

How many African immigrants are there in Ireland, anyways?

Are you really swamped with useless ****?

DelaneyIn

MFPM wrote: »

Any insights into the relatively low level of employment of Africans indicated by those figures?

It is not relatively low. The majority of Africans in Ireland don’t work. It is extraordinarily low. Especially considering that they are non EU nationals.

It raises a lot of questions. Why are we allowing so many non EU citizens move here and live off of welfare? It needs to stop.

MFPM

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

White Privilege does not exist, we are all eating a s**t sandwich regardless of race and are doing our best to get through it.

No to theories of unconscious bias, lived experience, man spreading, my truth, cultural appropriation, patriarchy, mis-gendering and the use of words like POC and Cis, none of these belong is schools and are all part of a new cult with Marxist roots and post modernist daydreams, in the same way all of us do not want our children to be under the influence of Scientology most of us with a brain do not want this new woke religion any where near our kids.

we are all eating a s**t sandwich regardless of race and are doing our best to get through it.

That post actually indicates the point about white privilege precisely. When is the last time you were told to go back where you came from, when is the last time you had someone do monkey chants at you, when is the last time you were called the 'n' word........it is overwhelmingly people of colour who are subjected to the above.

No to theories of unconscious bias, lived experience, man spreading, my truth, cultural appropriation, patriarchy, mis-gendering and the use of words like POC and Cis, none of these belong is schools and are all part of a new cult with Marxist roots and post modernist daydreams, in the same way all of us do not want our children to be under the influence of Scientology most of us with a brain do not want this new woke religion any where near our kids.

Dear me, you have some issues don't you? You're comparing the educating kids about the structural problems of society with the teaching of Scientology...remember the overwhelming majority of children are taught about Jesus being nailed to a cross, rising from the f@cking dead three days later and all the rest of that stuff but yeah education about racism/sexism and homophobia is the problem.

MFPM

DelaneyIn wrote: »

The statistics back up his point.

Irish in Australia;

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/17/ireland-australia-land-of-plenty

Africans in Ireland;

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1107/1009164-esri_migrants/

Any insights into the relatively low level of employment of Africans indicated by those figures?

Slowyourrole

Wibbs wrote: »

And? Hey, maybe what these places need is many more White Europeans? For multicultural diversity and the like. Yeah I didn't think so. The very sentence will have many twitching trying to find the "racism" in it. Diversity only seems to go one way and is very much based on the levels of melanin in the skin. The hundreds of thousands of Poles, Germans, Italians, Spaniards and British living in Ireland get nary a mention. Even Asian folks are low on the totem of what is apparently the correct sort of diversity.

We can only control our own actions. If other countries don't treat our people well because of their religion/race/nationality that doesn't mean we should do the same to their citizens.

enricoh

DelaneyIn wrote: »

The statistics back up his point.

Irish in Australia;

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/17/ireland-australia-land-of-plenty

Africans in Ireland;

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1107/1009164-esri_migrants/

Those figures are racist Delaney, please delete the post, ta!

Chris_Heilong

MFPM wrote: »

What on earth is wrong with the quote? Are you suggesting that schools and education shouldn't play a role in discussion on the real lived experiences of children?

White Privilege does not exist, we are all eating a s**t sandwich regardless of race and are doing our best to get through it.

No to theories of unconscious bias, lived experience, man spreading, my truth, cultural appropriation, patriarchy, mis-gendering and the use of words like POC and Cis, none of these belong is schools and are all part of a new cult with Marxist roots and post modernist daydreams, in the same way all of us do not want our children to be under the influence of Scientology most of us with a brain do not want this new woke religion any where near our kids.

[Deleted User]

Kaybaykwah wrote: »

Well, you go on about your migration to Australia and how you have contributed without taking a red penny from your host country. All giving and no taking and how productive you are. No proof of that, really, it's all hearsay.

Well, actually I live in China (although I did live in Australia for two years), but sure, I'll post up some statistics and research to back up my points later. I've little time available right now (or earlier) to track down links.

Wibbs

MFPM wrote: »

Yes, the departments set the bar very high, somewhat ironic given migration from this country has been overwhelmingly 'economic'.

Outside of existing colonies like the US who were built and sustained on immigration - and those "huddled masses" were largely in the past as far as being actively pursued - the majority of Irish emigration was legal. Try just hopping over to the US today without needed skills and see where that gets you. And yes I would deport illegal Irish from the US.

TheCitizen wrote: »

https://news.sky.com/video/history-is-written-by-the-people-who-do-the-harm-cricket-commentators-view-of-white-privilege-12024274

Michael Holding West Indies cricketer spoke about the issue of racism very well in this clip from SKY. Some of the commentary on this site exemplified by this thread is nothing short of a disgrace.

And that man is dead right on pretty much all fronts(though the White Jesus part is far more about the Romano Christian world making him not Jewish, not the other. Judas was far more often shown as a caricature of the Jew, the Semite, the other, again to distance the new religion from its origins. The carbon filament was invented by Joseph Swan long before Edison or anyone else).

The Black man(especially the Black man) has been dehumanised for centuries and there is most certainly a them and us going on and not just between Black/White/Yellow, that them and us is writ through human nature like words in a stick of rock. Pick any nation, any region throughout history and you'll find it and it doesn't matter the colour of skin going on either. Skin colour just makes it easier for the them and us to be more recognisable. It's about the biggest reason why multiculturalism has so many stressors and failure points.

Note how he started of by saying he hadn't encountered this stuff much at all growing up in Jamaica(though as he goes on to say he would have picked up some of the Black not so good, White pretty cool stuff). Of course not as Jamaica is 94% Black African origin folks. He only encountered it when... you guessed it, when he moved to a "multicultural" society. It's a given it kicks off.

Can we stop it? It's a lofty goal and one I've heard most of my life looking out from Ireland to the US and UK in the 70's and 80's and 90's... And yet here we are today where a group of US police, themselves of different "races" and backgrounds snuffed the life out of an African American in broad daylight in front of a battery of camera phones.

MFPM wrote: »

Mulitculturalism isn't an ideology and it certainly hasn't failed, are the problems in many cities, yes but there a multitude of factors that contribute to those problems - culture/economics/poverty/social inequality etc.

Multiculturalism is most certainly an ideology, overwhelmingly originating in and fostered by nations like the US who ended up multicultural both by design and "mistake" and were suffering the ills of it and sought, hoped to fix things, or at least look like they were doing something by pushing the notion of multicultural "melting pots". The very idea and politic simply wouldn't itself exist if there were no fracture lines along ethnicity and "race".

The idea of multiculturalism wouldn't have even been on the table in Ireland 30 years ago, because we had no numbers to speak of of non native Irish people, whereas our neighbours the UK were rolling it out as a Hail Mary solution because of the crap that was going down with different immigrant populations over there. The second and third generation of people born there whose parents had emigrated to the UK realised they were sold a pup. "British" in passport only in many ways, and yes racism from the native population was a huge part of it. They sought redress in both peaceful and not so peaceful means, just like African Americans had a generation previously and for similar reasons. Just like non natives in France and Germany. Everywhere this multicultural society has been tried has had the exact same issues. Apparently the Irish will do things differently. Travellers are pale faced often ginger haired 100% Irish and yet... How many centuries of ballsology has been played out on this island between two pale faced ethnic groups?

Slowyourrole wrote: »

would you live in any of those places? Would you happy with the rights you had if you did?

And? Hey, maybe what these places need is many more White Europeans? For multicultural diversity and the like. Yeah I didn't think so. The very sentence will have many twitching trying to find the "racism" in it. Diversity only seems to go one way and is very much based on the levels of melanin in the skin. The hundreds of thousands of Poles, Germans, Italians, Spaniards and British living in Ireland get nary a mention. Even Asian folks are low on the totem of what is apparently the correct sort of diversity.

TheCitizen wrote: »

It’s not about people having different opinions or about concerns with direct provision centres etc., I’m talking about a cohort that make broad statements like; “the multiculturalism project has failed etc.” On this site that sort of statement is regularly made, it’s backed by nothing bar ignorance and racism.

And yet when those dogwhistling about "racism" are probed for debate or positives of this ideology all they can seem to do is fire out vague references to diversity, different cultures(and food) and scream racist! when pushed for specifics. It's almost as if they have none.

Of course they don't. The sure sign it's an ideology is that it can't be questioned at its core. Those who believe in it do so more on faith than the reality of history and today. It must be true, it must, because if it's not... It's more a religious dogma than an argument.

[Deleted User]

Multiculturalism seems to be a euphemism for those from Countries who practice the religion of peace invading the host Country. And invade is correct, because many of them are still here after their first appeal is rejected. Criminals should be sent home.

Very little is shown of Slovakian, Lithuanian, Polish cultures etc on TV in comparison to those who are darker skinned. I think it's a disgrace that not only are they being accommodated illegally, but also that us Irish have to bend to their will and demands to the detriment of our own culture.

I can picture the scene now, if it hasn't happened already that two gays might be beat up or indeed prosecuted for holding hands in a "Muslim area" down the line. What is "multiculturalism" - is it not people of different beliefs/faiths/outlooks intermingling and co-existing peacefully.

Yet so much talk of "Muslim areas" in France etc.. Mindboggling that there can be such areas and perhaps moreso that they are/or are allowed to be termed as such.

My view on multiculturalism is Fuq multiculturalism. It hasn't worked in Sweden, France, Germany etc. It should be nipped in the bud here as well before we get too far that we're too far gone. When the next census form comes around I'm ticking the Irish box for Nationality - no ancillary crap like white/non-white/1st generation/2nd generation. Crap which will most likely be on the form - which unfortunately doesn't come in the post.

oyvey

MFPM wrote: »

It's not, it's an attempt to help kids understand racism and kids who are never likely to experience it but perhaps due to upbringing may engage in it.

As longs as it's taught in an age appropriate manner, there is nothing wrong with this. Are you suggesting that teaching children about the lived experiences of some of their class mates is not important or that the lived experience of some of their class mates is not important either.

It's utterly absurd that you'd be offended by this.

Telling whites kids now that they're more privileged isn't going to bring people together, it's going to bring divisiveness into the next generation. Not to mention it'll probably just make minority kids in a room full of white kids feel self-conscious or inferior.

Educate them by all means, but don't bring this white privilege bullsh*t into it.

DelaneyIn

Kaybaykwah wrote: »

Well, you go on about your migration to Australia and how you have contributed without taking a red penny from your host country. All giving and no taking and how productive you are. No proof of that, really, it's all hearsay.

The statistics back up his point.

Irish in Australia;

Once in Australia, few Irish immigrants have trouble finding a job. Unemployment among the Irish community in Australia is just 2.4%.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/17/ireland-australia-land-of-plenty

Africans in Ireland;

The employment rate for Africans in Ireland was also very low at 45%

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1107/1009164-esri_migrants/

MFPM

oyvey wrote: »

The quote is utter bollocks. Don't burden innocent kids with this white privilege bullsh*t.

The quote is utter bollocks

It's not, it's an attempt to help kids understand racism and kids who are never likely to experience it but perhaps due to upbringing may engage in it.

Don't burden innocent kids with this white privilege bullsh*t.

As longs as it's taught in an age appropriate manner, there is nothing wrong with this. Are you suggesting that teaching children about the lived experiences of some of their class mates is not important or that the lived experience of some of their class mates is not important either.

It's utterly absurd that you'd be offended by this.

Kaybaykwah

Deleted User wrote: »

Ahh sweet irony.

Enough said I think. You're obviously not here to contribute anything of value. A **** stirrer is all.

Well, you go on about your migration to Australia and how you have contributed without taking a red penny from your host country. All giving and no taking and how productive you are. No proof of that, really, it's all hearsay.

oyvey

MFPM wrote: »

What on earth is wrong with the quote? Are you suggesting that schools and education shouldn't play a role in discussion on the real lived experiences of children?

The quote is utter bollocks. Don't burden innocent kids with this white privilege bullsh*t.

Wayne Gorsky

RyanthePirate wrote: »

I would like to see a Boards.ie Consensus.

Economists agree that immigration has a net positive on the economy and this immigration is surely a wonderful thing for the county.

Agree/Disagree?

Limited immigration by qualified individuals with jobs (language specific etc.) tends to be a net positive, while mass immigration by illiterates usually isn't…

MFPM

DelaneyIn wrote: »

Why are all these non Europeans moving to Europe if we are such a racist and backward thinking people?

Are they sadomasochists or something? It’s getting tiresome to listen to foreigners smear the native people whilst they live in our countries.

If we were half as bad as they claim, we simply wouldn’t have let them or their parents in.

A whole lot of othering going on in this post...

MFPM

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

This is where we are now, this the kind of mindfcuk poisoning our childrens minds.
Totally depraved, beyond the beyonds in terms of (anti white) racism.

Heres what educate together plan on teaching when schools reopen.

"Hi, my name is Laura and I’m privileged“ – how many conversations start this way? Very few, if any, but they should"

"Acknowledge your privilege"

"If you are a white, settled, Irish person living in Ireland, you experience privilege, even though it may not seem like it or be immediately obvious"

https://www.educatetogether.ie/news/anti-racism-in-our-schools/

What on earth is wrong with the quote? Are you suggesting that schools and education shouldn't play a role in discussion on the real lived experiences of children?

MFPM

Deleted User wrote: »

Ahh sweet irony.

Enough said I think. You're obviously not here to contribute anything of value. A **** stirrer is all.

'Irony'?

You're obviously not here to contribute anything of value.

Says the guy posting sweeping generalisations without an ounce of evidence.

A **** stirrer is all.

More ad hominem and deflection.

Clarence Boddiker

This is where we are now, this the kind of mindfcuk poisoning our childrens minds.
Totally depraved, beyond the beyonds in terms of (anti white) racism.

Heres what educate together plan on teaching when schools reopen.

"Hi, my name is Laura and I’m privileged“ – how many conversations start this way? Very few, if any, but they should"

"Acknowledge your privilege"

"If you are a white, settled, Irish person living in Ireland, you experience privilege, even though it may not seem like it or be immediately obvious"

https://www.educatetogether.ie/news/anti-racism-in-our-schools/

[Deleted User]

MFPM wrote: »

Still no evidence of your sweeping generalised statements just more deflection. I couldn't care less about my 'credibility' with you, i n fcat you should be more focused on your own credibility.

Now perhaps you could do the discussion a service and go back to your post and substantiate some of your 'opinions' with some hard facts.

Ahh sweet irony.

Enough said I think. You're obviously not here to contribute anything of value. A **** stirrer is all.

Kaybaykwah

DelaneyIn wrote: »

Why are all these non Europeans moving to Europe if we are such a racist and backward thinking people?

Are they sadomasochists or something? It’s getting tiresome to listen to foreigners smear the native people whilst they live in our countries.

If we were half as bad as they claim, we simply wouldn’t have let them or their parents in.

If it were up to you, none of them would come in, though. They have to rely on more open hearted people higher up to do so.

Think of it this way, you had waves of Irish missionaries to places that didn't ask for advice on religion, and nobody bats an eyelash at that.

At a time when Ireland has enriched, has created more opportunities and indeed profited from EU funding on the one hand, and vast investments from tech giants abroad, it is an OK time to open up... Juts hide your daughters in the basement.

TheCitizen

dominatinMC wrote: »

As opposed to this sweeping generalisation? I hope you can at least see the irony. Just because some people/posters don't think as you do, doesn't make them racists. Therein lies one of the biggest misconceptions perpetrated in the media these days - that anyone with even a semblance of dissatisfaction with immigration is a racist. That word is bandied about so much these days, it's starting to loose meaning

It’s not about people having different opinions or about concerns with direct provision centres etc., I’m talking about a cohort that make broad statements like; “the multiculturalism project has failed etc.” On this site that sort of statement is regularly made, it’s backed by nothing bar ignorance and racism.

dominatinMC

TheCitizen wrote: »

Shocking bullshít peddled on this website on a daily basis. “The multiculturalism project has failed etc.” A shower of racists and blithering idiots making pronouncements about stuff they haven’t a clue about.

As opposed to this sweeping generalisation? I hope you can at least see the irony. Just because some people/posters don't think as you do, doesn't make them racists. Therein lies one of the biggest misconceptions perpetrated in the media these days - that anyone with even a semblance of dissatisfaction with immigration is a racist. That word is bandied about so much these days, it's starting to loose meaning

DelaneyIn

Slowyourrole wrote: »

would you live in any of those places? Would you happy with the rights you had if you did?

Should we allow anyone and everyone from those places and who wishes to live here to do so?

Being from a dump isn’t grounds for asylum.

Slowyourrole

olestoepoke wrote: »

No war in Nigeria, Pakistan, Bangladesh and many more.

would you live in any of those places? Would you happy with the rights you had if you did?

DelaneyIn

The German chancellor, Angela Merkel, has courted growing anti-immigrant opinion in Germany by claiming the country's attempts to create a multicultural society have "utterly failed".

Speaking to a meeting of young members of her Christian Democratic Union party, Merkel said the idea of people from different cultural backgrounds living happily "side by side" did not work.

She said the onus was on immigrants to do more to integrate into German society.

"This [multicultural] approach has failed, utterly failed," Merkel told the meeting in Potsdam, west of Berlin, yesterday.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-german-multiculturalism-failed

Yes, Merkel is such a racist.

TheCitizen

MFPM wrote: »

How has it failed, how do you measure it's failure, who do you blame for that failure and are you suggesting that we should have mono-cultural societies.

There is a large population of 'new irish' 'non Irish national' or whatever label you choose living across Dublin City and suburbs, people mix in schools/communities/workplaces.

Shocking bullshít peddled on this website on a daily basis. “The multiculturalism project has failed etc.” A shower of racists and blithering idiots making pronouncements about stuff they haven’t a clue about.

MFPM

DelaneyIn wrote: »

Even Frau Merkel has admitted that it has failed. Where in Dublin has multiculturalism worked?

How has it failed, how do you measure it's failure, who do you blame for that failure and are you suggesting that we should have mono-cultural societies.

Where in Dublin has multiculturalism worked?

There is a large population of 'new irish' 'non Irish national' or whatever label you choose living across Dublin City and suburbs, people mix in schools/communities/workplaces.

MFPM

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes? And?

I get the feeling that you haven't been following the thread discussion, and just decided to jump in for the last two pages. We've talked extensively throughout the thread about many types of migration, and my post was a continuance of that past discussion.

Can I ask you to stop seeking to derail this thread?

So far in this thread, you have deflected the topic away from multiculturalism for two different posters towards arguing semantics. So...

As opposed to actually reading past material, getting a sense for what the regular posters to the thread are discussing, and taking that into consideration when looking at generalisations?

Responding to you, and trying to give you the tiniest benefit of the doubt, that you're capable of engaging in a discussion (related to the topic at hand). And yes, I'm fast losing that belief.

Nope. You got it anything but straight.

No, you dismissed the post and then asked for evidence. And I'm asking that you contribute to the thread before I bend over backwards providing supporting information before you fly on to another thread.

Enough with the multi-quoting, and answering your individual points, because it's meaningless. You have zero credibility with me with regards to this thread. All you've done so far is dismiss the opinions of two posters without contributing anything yourself. So... no. And I'm not following you further down this rabbit hole.

You can argue my points and introduce evidence to show that I'm wrong in my opinions, and I'll respond likewise. Or you can continue with this BS you're doing. Your choice. However, I won't be responding further until you actually join the discussion at hand. ie. multiculturalism..

Still no evidence of your sweeping generalised statements just more deflection. I couldn't care less about my 'credibility' with you, i n fcat you should be more focused on your own credibility.

Now perhaps you could do the discussion a service and go back to your post and substantiate some of your 'opinions' with some hard facts.