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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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mandrake04

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Are we blaming joe public again ?
And this isn't part of the problem then no ?? I'm sure it wont be the only one.
If you going to blame one small part of society at least be balanced and show its also a problem in another.

The statement reads: “Due to delayed and in certain instances, non-action on the part of the HSE and management, I found myself compelled in good conscience to take action in order to protect patients and staff from what have become life-threatening conditions.

“I first raised concerns directly with management in mid-March. Worryingly, these concerns largely fell on deaf ears and notwithstanding similar concerns raised by fellow workers including staff who themselves subsequently tested positive and became seriously ill.”

The staff member, who is currently sick with Covid-19, claims there are “serious questions as to how the unit is being operated in the current crisis remain unanswered”.

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/whistleblower-claims-nursing-home-safety-warning-was-ignored-39187140.html

Well it’s not just the public’s fault, the government is to blame too they are going too soft and too late.

Ok so they let in a few goals at the start, we can say they were caught unaware but they should have been enforcing isolation like other countries from the start. There’s this ‘ah well we will be grand’ attitude really it’s not cutting it any more.

Too many people burying their heads in the sand hoping it’s all going be dandy.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

Did I see that the positive rate from those tested had dropped to close to 3%. Probably a much more useful indicator. We were at close 15% a couple of weeks ago I believe

Yeah, it is creeping downwards. I think the continuing cautious response is to that almost daily question of "What will happen on 18 May?". CMO will never say something he can't stand over nor make even the smallest of predictions.

road_high

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Yeah 196 increase on previous day from long term care settings

We need a daily breakdown of cases locations then- I see this everyday here, the general public who’ve been lambasted daily get the instant blame.
If the majority are from care home settings, we need to know how and why. Otherwise we are going around in circles and going nowhere

stephenjmcd

mandrake04 wrote: »

Well it’s not just the public’s fault, the government is to blame too they are going too soft and too late.

Ok so they let in a few goals at the start, we can say they were caught unaware but they should have been enforcing isolation like other countries from the start. There’s this ‘ah well we will be grand’ attitude really it’s not cutting it any more.

Too many people burying their heads in the sand hoping it’s all going be dandy.

I'm not saying all the public are saints far from it but this discussion was raised in the Irish times last week amongst other papers, whenever things don't look to be going right the blame is pushed back from the dept of health onto general public, your doing great but not quite there and now this comes to light.

A few own goals ?

The statement regarding the disclosure added: “Unfortunately I can give many examples of breaches of health and safety in (name of facility removed) including inappropriate, stringent rationing of PPE; extremely poor quality PPE; the non-availability of PPE; inadequate and inconsistent visitor restrictions; the transfer and movement of patients to/from contaminated areas; the failure to identify symptomatic patients; delays and failures to isolate symptomatic patients and patients confirmed as COVID-19 positive; conflicts and poor communication between nursing and medical teams regarding patient management and care; no testing plan; and withholding information from the families of residents."

is_that_so

mandrake04 wrote: »

Well it’s not just the public’s fault, the government is to blame too they are going too soft and too late.

Ok so they let in a few goals at the start, we can say they were caught unaware but they should have been enforcing isolation like other countries from the start. There’s this ‘ah well we will be grand’ attitude really it’s not cutting it any more.

Too many people burying their heads in the sand hoping it’s all going be dandy.

The government, despite the fervent belief of some, does not have tentacles everywhere. The HSE and HIQA have standards and procedures that must be complied with. During normal times nursing homes could be just about good enough but some have proved to be far less so during this. Sure we can see mistakes. missteps and question the approach in hindsight, but what was done was fast, a key factor in mitigating this. There is no complete manual for this just a series of measures which seem most effective. It's also not over and when it is there will be plenty of time to look at all aspects of it.

[Deleted User]

At this point, its almost impossible to see our quarter of a year plan working anyways. We are constantly getting told that the "numbers aren't there", but nobody is telling us what they want the numbers to be.

Reinfection rate is less than 1. ICU is less than 100. If this = lockdown, then what do we need to enter phase 1 or phase 5.

As there is no vaccine, We know for a fact the numbers will go up when ease the restrictions. With the people in charge here, that will just mean we lockdown straight away again.

What I really want to know is who is funding this? Where are we getting the money to keep paying people?
If you have to pay for something, you deserve to know how much its going to cost before you are expected to buy it.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

At this point, its almost impossible to see our quarter of a year plan working anyways. We are constantly getting told that the "numbers aren't there", but nobody is telling us what they want the numbers to be.

Reinfection rate is less than 1. ICU is less than 100. If this = lockdown, then what do we need to enter phase 1 or phase 5.

As there is no vaccine, We know for a fact the numbers will go up when ease the restrictions. With the people in charge here, that will just mean we lockdown straight away again.

What I really want to know is who is funding this? Where are we getting the money to keep paying people?
If you have to pay for something, you deserve to know how much its going to cost before you are expected to buy it.

CMO seems to be looking for signs of low hospital and ICU admissions. They also want to see a much smaller daily new case load. I don't know what that is and I can't see him ever giving a number just being encouraged, hopeful or concerned.
It's being paid for by the surplus and the money that had already been borrowed. Once that's exhausted we'll get more and there will be a lot of extremely cheap money about for that.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

At this point, its almost impossible to see our quarter of a year plan working anyways. We are constantly getting told that the "numbers aren't there", but nobody is telling us what they want the numbers to be.

Reinfection rate is less than 1. ICU is less than 100. If this = lockdown, then what do we need to enter phase 1 or phase 5.

As there is no vaccine, We know for a fact the numbers will go up when ease the restrictions. With the people in charge here, that will just mean we lockdown straight away again.

What I really want to know is who is funding this? Where are we getting the money to keep paying people?
If you have to pay for something, you deserve to know how much its going to cost before you are expected to buy it.

I think there is a realisation among decision makers that once we open, we cannot go back unless things get really dire. That's why there is so much caution - if restrictions are eased and numbers rise at a slow or steady pace, people will not tolerate missing the next phase. We want to get to a state where there is a very low level of community transmission (unknown source). This will allow both proper monitoring of the virus and a restarting of the economy

drunkmonkey

The people from the meat factorys are still getting results, the one in Roscrea has to be responsible for a lot of the community transmission being reported, heard yesterday a nursing home not too far away in shinrone has had 60 positive tests. That one bacon factory seems to have caused widespread infection in the community.

stephenjmcd

Germany hasn't seen R value increase dramatically since easing restrictions.
The reproduction rate of coronavirus in Germany is currently estimated at 0.65 according to the Robert Koch Institute.

CruelSummer

AIB tumbles a further 10pc as investors run scared of Irish banks - article in today’s Irish Independent. Why are we destroying our lives? Many more than the virus will...
I see some countries have also formed a ‘travel alliance’, Germany and other neighbours. Could also include Australia and New Zealand. We are left out cold...the government are useless at the moment. If Eamon Ryan doesn’t agree to government in the next week, off to the polls with us.

stephenjmcd

CruelSummer wrote: »

AIB tumbles a further 10pc as investors run scared of Irish banks - article in today’s Irish Independent. Why are we destroying our lives? Many more than the virus will...
I see some countries have also formed a ‘travel alliance’, Germany and other neighbours. Could also include Australia and New Zealand. We are left out cold...the government are useless at the moment. If Eamon Ryan doesn’t agree to government in the next week, off to the polls with us.

Yes they've mishandled some things but another election now is absolutely in nobody's best interests and could derail an awful lot of business supports announced last week.

Another election is basically a huge no no.

uli84

So what’s the daily percentage of nursing homes cases/deaths?

bloodless_coup

CruelSummer wrote: »

AIB tumbles a further 10pc as investors run scared of Irish banks - article in today’s Irish Independent. Why are we destroying our lives? Many more than the virus will...
I see some countries have also formed a ‘travel alliance’, Germany and other neighbours. Could also include Australia and New Zealand. We are left out cold...the government are useless at the moment. If Eamon Ryan doesn’t agree to government in the next week, off to the polls with us.

The economy is already down the toilet and they'll probably agree to some crazy Green policies (i.e. more tax) to get government formation over the line.

Looking like a very bleak future.

_Kaiser_

easypazz wrote: »

They can only prolong things as long as somebody is willing to keep giving us money.

... and as long as the general public are willing to support and buy in to the measures.

Something that, beyond the small corner that is boards.ie, seems to be lessening by the day as people weigh up the longer term impacts to themselves and their families.

Just wait till the Government are forced to reduce the €350 because the money's run out. Any remaining support will drop like a stone.

[Deleted User]

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

... and as long as the general public are willing to support and buy in to the measures.

Something that, beyond the small corner that is boards.ie, seems to be lessening by the day as people weigh up the longer term impacts to themselves and their families.

Just wait till the Government are forced to reduce the €350 because the money's run out. Any remaining support will drop like a stone.

The government admitted this was only something the public could do for a number of weeks, and you have people on here giving out that the public are getting lax after 2 months of restrictions.

Also using daily cases as a barometer is utter bollocks. We're not comparing like with like if they say we have no decrease in new cases today vs a week ago when we are consitently testing more and more people..

[Deleted User]

CruelSummer wrote: »

AIB tumbles a further 10pc as investors run scared of Irish banks - article in today’s Irish Independent. Why are we destroying our lives? Many more than the virus will...
I see some countries have also formed a ‘travel alliance’, Germany and other neighbours. Could also include Australia and New Zealand. We are left out cold...the government are useless at the moment. If Eamon Ryan doesn’t agree to government in the next week, off to the polls with us.

Share price falls in the Irish banks over the past couple of months are in line with the overall European banking sector. Bit more volatile, but you would expect that given they are miniscule on a European scale, and investors are probably also pricing in the risk that the state as owner direct AIB to cut rates / administer 0% interest rate loans

[Deleted User]

CruelSummer wrote: »

AIB tumbles a further 10pc as investors run scared of Irish banks - article in today’s Irish Independent. Why are we destroying our lives? Many more than the virus will...
I see some countries have also formed a ‘travel alliance’, Germany and other neighbours. Could also include Australia and New Zealand. We are left out cold...the government are useless at the moment. If Eamon Ryan doesn’t agree to government in the next week, off to the polls with us.

Some people here would love that. Put up a wall around the country. No-one in or out. Lockdown for weeks more and suppress the virus at all costs, with zero consideration given to the longer term impact. Too many people think like this for a more ambitious release of restrictions to be a political runner.

But once the £350 payment is cut in half, and sitting on your arse at home is no longer possible, I suspect that we will see the appetite for a more rapid release of restrictions shift quite rapidly

gozunda

easypazz wrote: »

You forgot No. 11

11. There has been a sharp drop in cancer referrals since the onset of Covid-19 pandemic, this is one of many areas where regular medical intervention has been impacted. The government is concerned about secondary mortality as a result of restrictions.

I think you will find I was replying to Jacs comment. Not your musings.

And nope. That is an known problem and its not being ignored. Yes there has been a drop in such treatments across the boards. This was originally done to maximise resources in hospitals to deal with the outbreak, to keep those who are medically vulnerable out of areas of high risk of infection and the secondary fact that people are choosing to stay away from GP surgeries and hospital settings themselves. From various reports it would seem some treatment services are starting up again. But lets all ignore all that and just keep up the bitching and moaning.

‘When it comes to cancer, early detection is key and can be the difference between life or death in some cases.

‘That’s why it’s so important people contact their GP immediately if they notice potential cancer symptoms like a lump, bleeding, weight loss or fatigue.

‘Despite COVID-19 we have been assured that GPs are there for anyone who needs them and urgent cancer services are continuing to operate.’ At the end of March, the Government announced that public healthcare capacity will increase by 17% through an agreement with the Private Hospital Association.

https://extra.ie/2020/05/04/news/irish-news/hse-non-coronavirus-health-timebomb

_Kaiser_

CruelSummer wrote: »

I see some countries have also formed a ‘travel alliance’, Germany and other neighbours. Could also include Australia and New Zealand. We are left out cold...the government are useless at the moment. If Eamon Ryan doesn’t agree to government in the next week, off to the polls with us.

Eamon Ryan and the Greens have the potential to just add more fuel to the fire that will be raging shortly as the new Government try to get a handle on it. Don't forget, only 7% voted for his lot yet they think they can dictate nonsense policies in the face of the worst recession in living memory.

As for the EU.. no surprise there. Expect that to be the case going forward as Germany does what's right for Germany - just as they did in the last recession and regardless of the impact to the rest of the club.

If anything, with the UK exit to complete next year, I reckon we'll find ourselves even more isolated both by geography and cultural gaps between us and the rest of the EU.

Sierra Oscar

CruelSummer wrote: »

AIB tumbles a further 10pc as investors run scared of Irish banks - article in today’s Irish Independent. Why are we destroying our lives? Many more than the virus will...
I see some countries have also formed a ‘travel alliance’, Germany and other neighbours. Could also include Australia and New Zealand. We are left out cold...the government are useless at the moment. If Eamon Ryan doesn’t agree to government in the next week, off to the polls with us.

The Irish banks were in free fall even before the Covid-19 outbreak due to political uncertainty. It can’t be all put down to Coronavirus.

ChelseaRentBoy

CruelSummer wrote: »

AIB tumbles a further 10pc as investors run scared of Irish banks - article in today’s Irish Independent. Why are we destroying our lives? Many more than the virus will...
I see some countries have also formed a ‘travel alliance’, Germany and other neighbours. Could also include Australia and New Zealand. We are left out cold...the government are useless at the moment. If Eamon Ryan doesn’t agree to government in the next week, off to the polls with us.

We aren't even making the wearing of masks compulsory ffs, Irish people seem more concerned about getting a haircut.

Ginger n Lemon

Ahhh, another day in lockdown.

So, rangers in Wicklow Mountains National Park have been told to stay at home due to social distancing. They have the most isolated job on the planet as you can appreciate, wondering around the forest by themselves.

Here, we will be laughed at for many years to come with our nonsense approach.

News update - German Bundesliga will resume May 15th (1 week from now). 198 players will take to the pitch and break all social distancing rules Simon Harris wishes for for about 90 minutes.

ELM327

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Ahhh, another day in lockdown.

So, rangers in Wicklow Mountains National Park have been told to stay at home due to social distancing. They have the most isolated job on the planet as you can appreciate, wondering around the forest by themselves.

Here, we will be laughed at for many years to come with our nonsense approach.

News update - German Bundesliga will resume May 15th (1 week from now). 198 players will take to the pitch and break all social distancing rules Simon Harris wishes for for about 90 minutes.

With the best management of this, recently, especially compared to major EU countries and US, I doubt people will be laughing.

tobefrank321

In the year 2025, when we are all in rags and starving, you'll still have the curtain twitchers ringing the gardai about groups of young men breaking the lockdown. This appears to be the direction we are now headed.

And we'll still have incompetence dealing with nursing homes.

I'm all for lockdowns except when those who brought in the lockdown don't know what they are doing and have no credible exit strategy people can buy in to.

drunkmonkey

It's a load of bollocks, I see yesterday NI golfers can come down and play where they like here. Someone posted a flight from Belfast to the UK yesterday and it was full, no distancing or masks, even a good lot of the ones flying into Ireland didn't give details of where there isolating. It's all a bit farcical at this stage.

gozunda

Deleted User wrote: »

Some people here would love that. Put up a wall around the country. No-one in or out. Lockdown for weeks more and suppress the virus at all costs, with zero consideration given to the longer term impact. Too many people think like this for a more ambitious release of restrictions to be a political runner.

But once the £350 payment is cut in half, and sitting on your arse at home is no longer possible, I suspect that we will see the appetite for a more rapid release of restrictions shift quite rapidly

Well that's the model New Zealand used and it seemed to have worked. Obviously that cant be done here now - but we can use the fairly light restrictions we do have in comparison to that to continue to keep the infection rate down and hopefully the total number of new cases and deaths.

People know that the Covid payment was time limited. This has been signalled from the very beginning. Thankfully the majority of people will get on with things the best way they can imo. As restrictions are lifted going forward- there will be more employment opportunities. It may not be perfect but that's where we are. Between the devil and the dark blue sea ....

is_that_so

tobefrank321 wrote: »

In the year 2025, when we are all in rags and starving, you'll still have the curtain twitchers ringing the gardai about groups of young men breaking the lockdown. This appears to be the direction we are now headed.

And we'll still have incompetence dealing with nursing homes.

I'm all for lockdowns except when those who brought in the lockdown don't know what they are doing and have no credible exit strategy people can buy in to.

That's a buzzword for this - don't know. Nobody knows. It's been a calculated risk-analysis strategy throughout. Could some things have been done better? Perhaps, but issues that occurred were ultimately resolved. One thing we have seen worldwide is that health systems have serious systemic problems for a pandemic. BTW can you link to your overall plan for all of this? I must have missed it in all of these fast moving threads.

road_high

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Ahhh, another day in lockdown.

So, rangers in Wicklow Mountains National Park have been told to stay at home due to social distancing. They have the most isolated job on the planet as you can appreciate, wondering around the forest by themselves.

Here, we will be laughed at for many years to come with our nonsense approach.

News update - German Bundesliga will resume May 15th (1 week from now). 198 players will take to the pitch and break all social distancing rules Simon Harris wishes for for about 90 minutes.

Seriously depressing reading last night the increased figures here- while dropping on the Continent and life getting back to normal. WTF are we at? The lockdown here has been strict, well supported and very well adhered to. Nothing much is open. How the fcuk are we doing so poorly?

FishOnABike

mandrake04 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/passengers-refusing-to-give-details-of-plans-for-quarantine-39187275.html?fbclid=IwAR0XAAD18WtPUZhKczCh4-hZnNHsmdXPj6EwiQ5Yf44LoKgWSuJBcyqq-IQ

This is the problem, the sooner the government puts people in forced Isolation the better, maybe give them a bit of kicking to ensure they dont get itchy feet

Possibly time that people not giving details of where they planned to isolate were refused entry until they did provide details and then targeted for checking during the 14 day period. Providing false details or failure to isolate should be an offense.