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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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Ginger n Lemon

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Think you'll find the only "merchants" here are those offering up doomsday economic scenarios.

Minister for finance came out recently and said we have 22% unemployment due to pandemic, 14% unemployment September onward.

14% unemployment is a doomsday economic scenario in a lot of economics books. In fact I havent read one that said unemployment in double digits is healthy for a country.

Above is a fact btw, not an estimate or doomsday prediction. Unless we dont trust minister for finance now..

lawrencesummers

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

That's a staggeringly ignorant post.

A staggering amount of people are in position's, especially those reaching retiring age, in positions 30 plus years, that if they had to apply for the job they have again, they wouldn't get called for an interview.

You missed the part where I said 18-35 your olds. I actually put it in there in black and white.

That very embarrassing for you.

Take a rest.

stephenjmcd

Taken from the guardian

Good news from Cyprus where the country’s leading virologist says he believes the novel virus is on course to being eradicated.

“It’s a matter of time now,” university professor Leontios Kostrikis was quoted as telling the Politis 107.6 radio station, saying once epidemics have completed their cycle they disappear. The virologist, who has gained international recognition in the field of HIV and Aids, also said he did not think there would be another big outbreak in the winter, but rather small flare-ups that would be manageable.

tobefrank321

easypazz wrote: »

But this "match" is far from over.

Sweden's medical team believe the 2.3million Stockholm metro area will have achieved herd immunity in weeks.

If a second wave hits in September who is to say Sweden will see very little of it but Denmark and Finland will see another round of death and come back in line with them.

Same with the UK, maybe the short term pain will be worth it, as they won't get another wallop in a possible second wave.

Nobody knows really.

You also have to factor in non covid 19 related deaths.

Its possible those countries in severe lockdown will see a wave of treatable cancer deaths among young people in 2021, young people who have little to fear from covid19. This has to be taken into consideration in every country.

Interesting to know if medical appointments are going ahead as normal in Sweden compared to other countries.

lawrencesummers

partyguinness wrote: »

That is exactly my point but now enough is enough. Open back up and let people decide themselves if they want to keep self isolating.

That is the very point I made at the outset but you decided to stick your head in a cloud of indignation.

So let’s remove the rules of the road and see if drivers drive properly.

Makes sense

growleaves

The virologist, who has gained international recognition in the field of HIV and Aids, also said he did not think there would be another big outbreak in the winter, but rather small flare-ups that would be manageable.

This ignoramus is obviously unfamiliar with the events of 1918. Science tells us that if something happened in 1918 then its going to happen again in four months time.

[Deleted User]

facehugger99 wrote: »

Our politicians are cowards.

I am no fan of varadkar and co....but it is alot tougher decision to close down econmy and risk ruination vs opening up and chancing it will be all ok

They are making decisions,which to me,seem to fly in face of their ethos and natural beliefs.....i think they are doing things right enough after some terrible blunders at start

partyguinness

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I was only joking, you might have missed it. It would take a lot more than a 6 week lockdown to read any expansion of your nonsense.

There is no shame in admitting that you know absolutely nothing about law and economic theory- you have no idea what I am talking about and you never will. I guess it's my own fault for expecting other posters to be clued up on the topic- one should know their audience.

It's okay.

easypazz

partyguinness wrote: »

That is exactly my point but now enough is enough. Open back up and let people decide themselves if they want to keep self isolating.

That is the very point I made at the outset but you decided to stick your head in a cloud of indignation.

This.

Educate people on the risks, age profiles etc.

Maintain social distancing as best as possible in society.

If people don't fancy the odds then self isolate.

The same as if they don't fancy the odds of being in a car crash they can avoid that mode of travel.

Ginger n Lemon

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Taken from the guardian

Good news from Cyprus where the country’s leading virologist says he believes the novel virus is on course to being eradicated.

“It’s a matter of time now,” university professor Leontios Kostrikis was quoted as telling the Politis 107.6 radio station, saying once epidemics have completed their cycle they disappear. The virologist, who has gained international recognition in the field of HIV and Aids, also said he did not think there would be another big outbreak in the winter, but rather small flare-ups that would be manageable.

It seems like most countries (US, Germany, Sweden, Cyprus) virologists are coming out and saying that
A) its not as deadly of a disease as thought

it should be dealt with through herd immunity
C) a lot of people have already had it

To poster who said i am not positive - boom there is a lot to be positive about this in terms of our "fight with the virus" as Simon Harris would put it.

Less positive news on the economic front, unfortunately.

LiquidZeb

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I was only joking, you might have missed it. It would take a lot more than a 6 week lockdown to read any expansion of your nonsense.

You're one to talk about nonsense after what you've just posted about unemployment.

niallo27

growleaves wrote: »

This ignoramus is obviously unfamiliar with the events of 1918. Science tells us that if something happened in 1918 then its going to happen again in four months time.

They were completely different viruses in completely different times.

gozunda

easypazz wrote: »

But this "match" is far from over.

Sweden's medical team believe the 2.3million Stockholm metro area will have achieved herd immunity in weeks.

If a second wave hits in September who is to say Sweden will see very little of it but Denmark and Finland will see another round of death and come back in line with them.

Same with the UK, maybe the short term pain will be worth it, as they won't get another wallop in a possible second wave.

Nobody knows really.

Ah Sweden again! The country with a much larger number of infections than any of the other Scandinavian countries despite having many social based restrictions in place?

Again "Stockholm" on which you repeatedly hang your hat is not a country. And believing in the magic tooth fairy or "herd immunity" is not the same as it actually being a reality or it coming to pass

Of interest the concept of "Herd immunity" has been debunked by scientists many times. Heres just one example of this being pointed out.

Until we have a vaccine, anyone talking about herd immunity as a preventative strategy for COVID-19 is simply wrong. Fortunately, there are other ways of preventing infections from spreading, which all boil down to avoiding people who are sick.

So stay home, stay safe, and practice physical distancing as much as possible

https://www.sciencealert.com/why-herd-immunity-will-not-save-us-from-the-covid-19-pandemic

easypazz

lawrencesummers wrote: »

So let’s remove the rules of the road and see if drivers drive properly.

Makes sense

Silly idea.

growleaves

They were completely different viruses in completely different times.

I know. I was joking.

Cork Boy 53

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Taken from the guardian

Good news from Cyprus where the country’s leading virologist says he believes the novel virus is on course to being eradicated.

“It’s a matter of time now,” university professor Leontios Kostrikis was quoted as telling the Politis 107.6 radio station, saying once epidemics have completed their cycle they disappear. The virologist, who has gained international recognition in the field of HIV and Aids, also said he did not think there would be another big outbreak in the winter, but rather small flare-ups that would be manageable.

Hmmm. I wonder what this university professor`s thoughts are on the 1918-1920 Spanish Flu pandemic. That most certainly did not disappear after one cycle. In fact by far the most fatalities occurred during the later waves.

Ginger n Lemon

gozunda wrote: »

Ah Sweden again! The country with a much larger number of infections than any of the other Scandinavian countries despite having many social based restrictions in place?

Again "Stockholm" on which you repeatedly hang your hat is not a country. And believing in the magic tooth fairy or "herd immunity" is not the same as it actually bring a reality ot it coming to pass

Of interest the concept of "Herd immunity" has been debunked by scientists many times. Heres just one example of this being pointed out.

https://www.sciencealert.com/why-herd-immunity-will-not-save-us-from-the-covid-19-pandemic

Love this link!!!

first thing said "It's hard to predict things in a pandemic."

goes on to predict herd immunity wont work. Boy science profession is quickly becoming a laughing stock.

PS amount of adds on that page, sciencealtert clearly is looking for page visitors to make money off adds. This isnt a serious website is it?

the kelt

The majority of people talking about easing restrictions and making comparisons with other countries arent referencing Sweden because they never had the level of restrictions others had to begin with.

Thats why theres a totally separate thread on here devoted to Sweden because there an outlier.

When people look at our restrictions and roadmap comparing it to tohers they look at other countries such as Spain, Belgium, Italy, Germany, Denmark, etc etc that are easing restrictions far quicker than us and asking why?

MarkY91

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Just because a few people you know have no comprehension of the greater good doesn’t mean the entire country is thick.

What about hundreds of people out right now in every park in the country...explain that one

partyguinness

growleaves wrote: »

This ignoramus is obviously unfamiliar with the events of 1918. Science tells us that if something happened in 1918 then its going to happen again in four months time.

Now maybe you are calling the poster an ignoramus but calling an internationally recognized virologist an ignoramus is either supremely brave or you are a bit of a twat.

growleaves

Hmmm. I wonder what this university professor`s thoughts are on the 1918-1920 Spanish Flu pandemic. That most certainly did not disappear after one cycle. In fact by far the most fatalities occurred during the later waves.

What do you think his thoughts are on encephalitis lethargica, the 1957 pandemic, the 1968-69 pandemic, SARS, Swine Flu etc., etc.?

Virologists and epidemiologists study all pandemics, not just the ones that can be easily used as scare-scenarios for the social-media equivalent of yellow journalism.

lawrencesummers

partyguinness wrote: »

There is no shame in admitting that you know absolutely nothing about law and economic theory- you have no idea what I am talking about and you never will. I guess it's my own fault for expecting other posters to be clued up on the topic- one should know their audience.

It's okay.

That’s the problem with people who think they understand economics, they think everything is and economic problem.

[Deleted User]

boring accountant wrote: »

I absolutely agree. The youth are being forced out of work to help save their boss and their landlords skin.

Pitting one section of society against another is always the right approach! Vilify and demonise the other, whoever they may be only ever leads a country down a dark and dangerous path

growleaves

partyguinness wrote: »

Now maybe you are calling the poster an ignoramus but calling an internationally recognized virologist an ignoramus is either supremely brave or you are a bit of a twat.

I was taking the piss.

I've been criticising posters for citing the Spanish flu as normative for epidemics.

lawrencesummers

MarkY91 wrote: »

What about hundreds of people out right now in every park in the country...explain that one

They are in a park.

growleaves

lawrencesummers wrote: »

That’s the problem with people who think they understand economics, they think everything is and economic problem.

Shutting down the economy is at least partly an economic problem!

tobefrank321

gozunda wrote: »

Ah Sweden again! The country with a much larger number of infections than any of the other Scandinavian countries despite having many social based restrictions in place?

Again "Stockholm" on which you repeatedly hang your hat is not a country. And believing in the magic tooth fairy or "herd immunity" is not the same as it actually bring a reality ot it coming to pass

Of interest the concept of "Herd immunity" has been debunked by scientists many times. Heres just one example of this being pointed out.

https://www.sciencealert.com/why-herd-immunity-will-not-save-us-from-the-covid-19-pandemic

Who is the "scientist" in the article you linked to?

Most experts I have seen concede that herd immunity will be achieved either deliberately or accidently. A cell biologist on newsnight last night said it seems unavoidable that most people will be infected sooner or later. To repeat - unavoidable. Its possible many people have been infected in Ireland without even knowing it.

Which is why the government and HSE need to prioritize antibody testing asap.

Skyfloater

lawrencesummers wrote: »

So let’s remove the rules of the road and see if drivers drive properly.

Makes sense

This happened during the Blue Flu and nothing happened. Most people are sensible, believe it or not.

LiquidZeb

growleaves wrote: »

What do you think his thoughts are on encephalitis lethargica, the 1957 pandemic, the 1968-69 pandemic, SARS, Swine Flu etc., etc.?

Virologists and epidemiologists study all pandemics, not just the ones that can be easily used as scare-scenarios for the social-media equivalent of yellow journalism.

And considering back in the time of the Spanish flu there was large swathes of the world without running water, electricity, no health service, godawful sanitation and people living in cramped tenements it's incomparable. Also the whole of Europe was having it's bollocks ripped off by the war which hardly helped matters.

boring accountant

jmayo wrote: »

Yeah I am going to divulge personal information to some plonker on a web message board.

And you of course are an accountant.

If so how come you are one of those that refuse to acknowledge that we are an open economy almost totally dependent on foreign trade and foreign visitors ????
We can open every fooking thing up but lots of places will have no business.

BTW you are shyte at guessing also.

And if you did cursory glance at my post history you would realise what I do work at.

How exactly does being an open economy justify closing down our economy? As an accountant you say it’s something I should know but it sounds like complete jibberish to me.

Btw, “lots of places having no business” is a million times better than every place having no business.