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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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tombrown

This question has probably been answered already, but search isn't helping me find it, so here goes:

I have a holiday home that is let out for short stays. Obviously all current bookings (up until about mid June at the moment) are being cancelled and guests are getting a refund. AT which phase in the new plan can I start allowing guest rentals again

Stark

July 20th (Phase 4) by the looks of it.

https://assets.gov.ie/73722/ffd17d70fbb64b498fd809dde548f411.pdf

Social and recreationOpening of hotels, hostels,
caravan parks, holiday parks
for social and tourist
activities initially on a
limited occupancy basis (or
number of people per
square metre) and then
increasing over time (and
where social distancing is
complied with). Hotel bars
remain closed

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Whatever it is in your opinion the guy is a GP who was elected to the Irish medical council by Simon Harris

GPs are human too. They can have divergent opinions about things. There's even a term used quite often in medicine. It's when someone asks for a 'second opinion'. You are using the opinion of a GP with whom you agree. I'm sure there are others that disagree.

hmmm

Loozer wrote: »

Not sure about this^

The nursing home residents need to be isolated from the wider community, virus is going to spread in the community regardless

What good will that do when the staff live in the community, and the virus is circulating outside the nursing homes?

Penfailed

kaymin wrote: »

Over 60% of deaths have been in nursing homes - this should never have happened. Our death rate would have been far far less except for the incompetence of our government and CMO.

Yes. True. It's a issue in lots of countries that many on this thread would rather we follow. Some care homes in Spain were abandoned and the residents were left to fend for themselves...but Spain is great because their pubs are open soon.

stephenjmcd

Looks like in Germany you'll be able to go to a brothel soon but in Ireland you cant hug your family.... from the guardian.

"In Germany, all shops will reopen and amateur outdoor sports restart under certain conditions as part of an easing of lockdown measures, the federal government and states have agreed according to a draft document.

The paper seen by Reuters was prepared by federal chancellery chief Helge Braun and the heads of the regional chancelleries for a telephone conference Chancellor Angela Merkel is due to hold with premiers of the 16 states later today.

Dated 5 May, the document shows that based on infection levels, states will decide on their own about a gradual opening of universities, restaurants, bars, hotels, trade fairs, cosmetic studios, brothels, theatres, fitness studios, cinemas and discos all under certain hygiene and distancing concepts. States will also decide on limiting contact between people, it adds."

road_high

Bobtheman wrote: »

Black market in hair dressing is all over the place. It's ok for Paschal Donohue. He has hardly any hair.

Cool, any idea where one might get one?

ixoy

Penfailed wrote: »

but Spain is great because their pubs are open soon.

Out of curiosity, can you point to all the posters who are primarily celebrating the fact that the pubs are opening soon in all these countries? As opposed to people pointing out all the other businesses and services that are opening.

the kelt

Penfailed wrote: »

Yes. True. It's a issue in lots of countries that many on this thread would rather we follow. Some care homes in Spain were abandoned and the residents were left to fend for themselves...but Spain is great because their pubs are open soon.

But surely if other countries also had issues with nursing homes as is the case and can still get themselves in order enough to relax restrictions quicker than us then something doesn’t add up.

The “sure other countries had issues with nursing homes also” argument only holds up if they’re in the same position as ourselves in delaying the easing of restrictions compared to lots of others.

I’ve still yet to hear a coherent reason why we are so materially different to other countries that we have to delay to the extremes that we are compared to others, no one knows if we are right or wrong on that path but what makes us so different?

Benimar

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Looks like in Germany you'll be able to go to a brothel soon but in Ireland you cant hug your family.... from the guardian.

"In Germany, all shops will reopen and amateur outdoor sports restart under certain conditions as part of an easing of lockdown measures, the federal government and states have agreed according to a draft document.

The paper seen by Reuters was prepared by federal chancellery chief Helge Braun and the heads of the regional chancelleries for a telephone conference Chancellor Angela Merkel is due to hold with premiers of the 16 states later today.

Dated 5 May, the document shows that based on infection levels, states will decide on their own about a gradual opening of universities, restaurants, bars, hotels, trade fairs, cosmetic studios, brothels, theatres, fitness studios, cinemas and discos all under certain hygiene and distancing concepts. States will also decide on limiting contact between people, it adds."

So, no dates or times for any of this? And it has to be agreed by the 16 states. Could you imagine the uproar if Leo had announced that!

A document dated May 5 means nothing, Ireland’s plan is dated May 1.

ShadowTech

hmmm wrote: »

What good will that do when the staff live in the community, and the virus is circulating outside the nursing homes?

I've been wondering if there's a way to change the way we work with high risk communities like this. Why isn't it possible for the state to fully pay and care for nursing home staff's children / pets, etc. and have the staff stay in the nursing home for 2 weeks to a month at a time (thus creating a little bubble almost entirely unaffected by the outside world)? In the meantime the next round of staff could self-isolate for two weeks before they start their shift, be tested to double-check that they're clear, and then switch places with the previous staff.

I know this would require substantially more money and logistics than normal but we are already taking extraordinary actions that effect the population as a whole.

Edited to add: My fear long-term is that we will open society and community transmission will increase. At a certain point we will not really be able to close everything down again for economic reasons and then we may have failed both to protect our quality of life as well as to protect our most vulnerable.

pjohnson

Bobtheman wrote: »

Black market in hair dressing is all over the place. It's ok for Paschal Donohue. He has hardly any hair.

And that is why this has to continue!

celt262

ShadowTech wrote: »

I've been wondering if there's a way to change the way we work with high risk communities like this. Why isn't it possible for the state to fully pay and care for nursing home staff's children / pets, etc. and have the staff stay in the nursing home for 2 weeks to a month at a time (thus creating a little bubble almost entirely unaffected by the outside world)? In the meantime the next round of staff could self-isolate for two weeks before they start their shift, be tested to double-check that they're clear, and then switch places with the previous staff.

I know this would require substantially more money and logistics than normal but we are already taking extraordinary actions that effect the population as a whole.

Edited to add: My fear long-term is that we will open society and community transmission will increase. At a certain point we will not really be able to close everything down again for economic reasons and then we may have failed both to protect our quality of life as well as to protect our most vulnerable.

I don't think many of the staff would want to live their lives like that.

ShadowTech

celt262 wrote: »

I don't think many of the staff would want to live their lives like that.

That's certainly possible but I think much of the argument that's going on in this thread and in the wider community is similar. Many people don't want to live lives like we're living now and there's no clear way of getting society back to near-normal.

If the government were to pay lavishly for this service and all expenses were taken care of, perhaps it would work and it would likely be less costly than the level of disruption the entire society is currently experiencing.

[Deleted User]

Arghus wrote: »

Most of you here would do well to read the words of the poster in this thread. A consultant in an Irish hospital, whose hard factual information has been extremely sobering over the last few weeks.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=113352900#post113352900

This answer to a question from earlier today, should shock some of you back to reality, but I doubt it at this stage:

Very difficult to take someone seriously when they give out about us hitting his 'best case scenario', then goes on to chastise the public. Eh, what?

ixoy

Benimar wrote: »

So, no dates or times for any of this? And it has to be agreed by the 16 states. Could you imagine the uproar if Leo had announced that

Each state can make its own timeline (in terms of specifics) I believe. Probably like our plan dependent on how it's going. Certain things have re-opened now, such as playgrounds for kids at least in some areas. Zoos to re-open shortly.

LiquidZeb

Penfailed wrote: »

Yes. True. It's a issue in lots of countries that many on this thread would rather we follow. Some care homes in Spain were abandoned and the residents were left to fend for themselves...but Spain is great because their pubs are open soon.

No one here keeps mentioning the pub but the likes of you. Stop pigeonholing people to feed your ego and Messiah complex.

stephenjmcd

Benimar wrote: »

So, no dates or times for any of this? And it has to be agreed by the 16 states. Could you imagine the uproar if Leo had announced that!

A document dated May 5 means nothing, Ireland’s plan is dated May 1.

Incorrect, it's to be announced this morning, as per German media. With measures starting to be further relaxed from next week. Each state will be in charge of lifting their own restrictions. For example in Bavaria, from 18th May, restaurants and bars will be allowed open for outdoor dining, a week later indoor will be allowed and hotels reopen on 30th.

German football expected to begin behind closed doors in 2 weeks time.

partyguinness

Schools and educational institutions should be opened ASAP.

I have now come around to the view that it is completely arseways to screw over children's education and development just to protect the elderly and sick who are well beyond their economic use. Let nature take its course.

End the lock down and if people or certain sections of society are worried let them lock themselves away but let the rest of the world get on with it.

Ginger n Lemon

ixoy wrote: »

Each state can make its own timeline (in terms of specifics) I believe. Probably like our plan dependent on how it's going. Certain things have re-opened now, such as playgrounds for kids at least in some areas. Zoos to re-open shortly.

German schools have opened as of 4th of May.

Their shops of under 800 sq m have been opened since 27th of April.

Bundesliga first games will kick off 16th of May.

I think it can be safe to assume that they will be out of lockdown by 1st of June fully, bar large public gatherings.

PS. if its left up to each state things will open even faster, as the budgets in those states are already stretched hard. Merkel doesnt like the idea of free or cheap money hence doesnt want this euro bond nonsense going on. Smart.

Penfailed

LiquidZeb wrote: »

No one here keeps mentioning the pub but the likes of you. Stop pigeonholing people to feed your ego and Messiah complex.

Hahaha! That's quite a leap.
I'm not the Messiah, I'm a very naughty boy.

I can't multi-quote on my phone but if you have a read back over the last few days, there are a few posters that repeatedly use other countries that are opening up and using pubs as a reference point. They were the same people who, a couple of weeks ago, were saying, "It's not about pubs, it's the economy, stupid."

partyguinness

Just another example of the Baby Boomer generation looking after themselves (along with cushy pensions, massive equity, and all the other perks you get at 65).

They have already screwed over the youth with Brexit, hoarded the housing stock, ****ed the environment and now this...oh but if anyone complains oh sure you are just a whiny 'snowflake' phone zombie.

ps I am writing this from England so a slightly different angle.

MarkY91

Record numbers out in parks

Barbers open behind closed doors. My local one gets people go come in via the laneway at the back

I know of someone getting a tattoo in a tattoo shop with shutters down

And I know for a fact that there's rented apartments for big drink/drug sessions going on in Dublin every weekend

There never was a lockdown lads.

patnor1011

celt262 wrote: »

I don't think many of the staff would want to live their lives like that.

Not to mention that most of nursing houses are private business. Why would state be required to cover pay for a workers in private for profit companies? They have enough on their table to provide for public service personnel.

MarkY91

Stark

Penfailed wrote: »

Hahaha! That's quite a leap.
I'm not the Messiah, I'm a very naughty boy.

I can't multi-quote on my phone but if you have a read back over the last few days, there are a few posters that repeatedly use other countries that are opening up and using pubs as a reference point. They were the same people who, a couple of weeks ago, were saying, "It's not about pubs, it's the economy, stupid."

Pubs are probably the highest risk so people are using that as a benchmark to how far a country is along and how much they have things under control. "Look, they can open pubs, whereas I can't even say hello to my mother or attend my oncology appointment or drive more than 5km". It's not saying pubs are the highest priority for people.

LiquidZeb

Stark wrote: »

Pubs are probably the highest risk so people are using that as a benchmark to how far a country is along and how much they have things under control. "Look, they can open pubs, whereas I can't even say hello to my mother or attend my oncology appointment or drive more than 5km". It's not saying pubs are the highest priority for people.

No let him off. He's already made his mind up that everyone's a shallow drunk but him. He's the hero.

ShadowTech

patnor1011 wrote: »

Not to mention that most of nursing houses are private business. Why would state be required to cover pay for a workers in private for profit companies? They have enough on their table to provide for public service personnel.

Under normal circumstances I'd agree with this but when it comes to dealing with this public health emergency we are treating illnesses and deaths in private and public institutions the same and they all contribute to the same negative effects on our society and our finances. As long as numbers of deaths / ICU admittance are high our entire society is on hold. I suppose I'm arguing that if we are willing to shutdown our entire country and pay people to stay home (both in public and private employment) this really shouldn't be a concern if we can target our efforts and in the process allow for a more normal lifestyle.

partyguinness

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8290353/ALEX-BRUMMER-Madness-45s-work-economy-burns.html

Out of 27k odd deaths only 322 have been under 45. I know this is UK figures but the breakdown around the world will be similar.

lawrencesummers

MarkY91 wrote: »

Record numbers out in parks

Barbers open behind closed doors. My local one gets people go come in via the laneway at the back

I know of someone getting a tattoo in a tattoo shop with shutters down

And I know for a fact that there's rented apartments for big drink/drug sessions going on in Dublin every weekend

There never was a lockdown lads.

Just because a few people you know have no comprehension of the greater good doesn’t mean the entire country is thick.