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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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Balf

Deleted User wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/mortgage-holders-warned-payment-breaks-to-prove-costly-39183118.html

Another article from today about mortgage payment breaks. Hint, they’re not free anyways.

Indeed, I can't understand the lack of a sense of urgency around the lockdown when this kind of problem is being stored up and added to every day.

You seem to be able to get a long way in life by being prissy.

Assetbacked

normanoffside wrote: »

And according to Prime Time just now, despite hospitals at 20% capacity, waiting lists for non-covid treatments have been put back 3 months.
Private patients with operations cancelled.
Cancer and other screenings and treatments have been effectively stopped.

Up to 2,000 deaths could be caused because of the paralysis of the health system.

Some life as a hospital worker the past few weeks!

normanoffside

gozunda wrote: »

But more importantly - the issue of Covid-19 is not only with the over 70s and those in care homes. Only half the current deaths can be attributed to this cohort. Vulneralbities exist across all age groups - whether asthma, diabetes or other long term illnesses. And the disease affects a significant proportion of otherwise healthy under 70 year olds and results in a significant number of those infected being hospitalised.

Actually it was specifically mentioned by Dr Holohan in Today's conference that now 60% of total deaths are from care homes.
It was at or under 50% a few weeks ago which means that in the last few weeks the big majority of deaths are coming from care homes.

Balf

Lashes28 wrote: »

Anyone know what faze shopping centres fall into?

The last phase, 10 August. Before that, just shops with their own entrance

[Deleted User]

Rainmann wrote: »

Exactly this. I don't understand why our elected officials just hand over the reins to a few medical experts and hide behind their decisions. Total lack of leadership!

Well as long as we have T Holohan telling us subjective things like "as low as possible" and then two faced Harris being sent out every couple of weeks to tell us the goal posts have been changed and finally Varadkar taking out of his backside trying to look like an inspirational leader, we'll all be grand.

Genghis

Deleted User wrote: »

The saddest thing is, we’ll never know how many died or suffered terribly from the lockdown.
Thousands could be dead as a result of appointments cancelled or treatment cancelled or fear of going the hospital. It’s ridiculous that this is happening!

The recession will be awful. Unemployment, rises in suicide, addiction, crime, mental health issues and so many more things. Funding cut across the board. People losing their homes.

I don’t doubt that Covid 19 is fairly serious. It will probably kill a couple of thousand Irish, mainly over 65.

But the end result would have been better than what we are in for.

Nobody will ever be able to put a figure on how die during recession. No one will ever admit how many died as a result of missed treatments. We’ll give ourselves a pat on the back for “saving lives”

Listening to some news show over the weekend, and it seems a metric that might be used to look back on the crisis internationally to assess and compare countries responses is the '2020' Vs past 5 year average death rate. I think a EU body is already using it.

The idea being there is so much variation in confirming cases or classifying deaths that simply comparing reported numbers is impossible. This ultimate / inescapable measure based on death statistics will be more useful.

If that metric gains traction it does bring into the narratuve deaths above norm but outside reported COVID numbers. I think we may then get a handle on the unfortunate 'collateral damage' you mention.

Kermit.de.frog

Rainmann wrote: »

I don't understand why our elected officials just hand over the reins to a few medical experts and hide behind their decisions. Total lack of leadership!

[Deleted User]

https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/mortgage-holders-warned-payment-breaks-to-prove-costly-39183118.html

Another article from today about mortgage payment breaks. Hint, they’re not free anyways.

Benimar

Lashes28 wrote: »

Anyone know what faze shopping centres fall into?

Phase 5.

Lashes28

Anyone know what faze shopping centres fall into?

gozunda

Mad_maxx wrote: »

the last two months have shown that if government has the will , they can do anything , those who work in nursing homes should have been forcibly cocooned themselves but compensated for the inconvenience , employ a guard to chaparone them to and fro from work so they dont mix with others if need be

Wow. So nursing and other medical staff including doctors and carers would have to be completely (forcibly?) isolated from their families etc - for how long? And some people here are claiming our current restrictions equate with a police state?

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Your second point is altogether plain wrong , this disease is effectively harmless for the young but a tiny minority of young people die each year of various ailments , covid 19 is remarkably age specific in terms of who it most targets

there are outliers and a small minority of people of all age profiles are vulnerable due to underlying conditions but these are statistically insignificant , we should not have crippled the economy to counter such eventualities , time will prove doing so has created more death sentences than covid 19 ever could

Incorrect and wrong. You refer the under 70s - not just the 'young'. Long term illnesses exist across all age groups and many of these are included in the at risk groups.

Many countries have restrictions - not just Ireland in case you dont realise. Other countries have implemented their restictions earlier than here and are further ahead than us in rolling back some of their restrictions. That is as is.

I know some here are preaching that it's just our current government. It's not. We are at the start of a global recession. We need to acknowledge that and deal with it as best we can.

Kermit.de.frog

Rainmann wrote: »

I don't understand why our elected officials just hand over the reins to a few medical experts and hide behind their decisions. Total lack of leadership!

This comes across like a Trump tweet.

[Deleted User]

Nobody likes to talk too much about the age of people dying for whatever reason. The figures as of 29th April were, 14 dead under 45. 75 dead under 65.

So it’s practically a non event if you are under 65.

Which makes it even more baffling why we aren’t cocooning and allowing life to continue.

Rainmann

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I see one poster here wants us to be positive. Well, please see below:

anti body testing carried out in Germany, found Covid19 to have mortality rate of 0.36%.

anti body testing carried out in New york state, found covid 19 to have 0.56% mortality rate.

anti body testing carried out in california found covid19 to have 0.12% mortality rate.

In all 3 of these, over 15% of population already had covid19 and, as we have been told from the very start, had no symptoms/very mild symptoms.

I just hope when this is all over, we will have a responsible government who will create laws to ensure that some mad scientists cant just crash our economies and way of life based on their "models".

PS shocking story about a poster having delayed treatment, really hope it is scheduled asap. 1 thing is for sure, 1000+ people will sue HSE when this all over and pay outs will easily be worth more money than half a country on the dole for 3 months. bailout chances are increasing by the day...

Exactly this. I don't understand why our elected officials just hand over the reins to a few medical experts and hide behind their decisions. Total lack of leadership!

easypazz

boetstark wrote: »

Horse****, my neighbour is an icu nurse, 2 cases are both under 50 and still in icu after 3 weeks. Previously healthy and no underlying condition. I know both because they are work colleagues.

14 under 40's have died afaik.

Its a relatively low risk illness for younger people.

Quantum Erasure

normanoffside wrote: »

As far as I can see there are 3 types of Lock-down Merchant

1. Long term unemployed happy with their welfare and delighted that hundreds of thousands of people are now forced to live like them,

They're JEALOUS of our FREEDOM!

[Deleted User]

uli84 wrote: »

Got informed today that screening will be restarted “as soon as it is deemed safe to do so”, anybody knows when that is?
We’re talking here about 1:1 appointment lasting 5 minutes max

Jesus. Everyone in a position of authority is just in a blind f***ing irrational panic. It’s crazy, and the strong leadership necessary to pull us out of this downward spiral is completely absent

easypazz

gozunda wrote: »

But more importantly - the issue of Covid-19 is not only with the over 70s and those in care homes. Only half the current deaths can be attributed to this cohort.

Approx.90% of Covid deaths in Ireland are over ~65.

RugbyLad11

Deleted User wrote: »

The saddest thing is, we’ll never know how many died or suffered terribly from the lockdown.
Thousands could be dead as a result of appointments cancelled or treatment cancelled or fear of going the hospital. It’s ridiculous that this is happening!

The recession will be awful. Unemployment, rises in suicide, addiction, crime, mental health issues and so many more things. Funding cut across the board. People losing their homes.

I don’t doubt that Covid 19 is fairly serious. It will probably kill a couple of thousand Irish, mainly over 65.

But the end result would have been better than what we are in for.

Nobody will ever be able to put a figure on how die during recession. No one will ever admit how many died as a result of missed treatments. We’ll give ourselves a pat on the back for “saving lives”

The HSE don't care a whole lot about those deaths because as you say they are not going to be reported.

All they care about right now is keeping covid 19 deaths as low as possible as this is getting reported on each day

uli84

Got informed today that screening will be restarted “as soon as it is deemed safe to do so”, anybody knows when that is?
We’re talking here about 1:1 appointment lasting 5 minutes max

gozunda

LiquidZeb wrote: »

You shouldn't have reposted the second one. I got a good telling off from the mod for posting such obscene content in this good Christian forum. Also did you really trawl through my recent posts to take them completely out of context? You should follow your own advice.

Incorrect again . I didn't. Though I'd suggest maybe you read boards TOU for some good guidance on posting. Just a suggestion btw.

But yes a bunch of your posts seem to be mostly overt personalisations just like the previous one above. So yes it's in context.

The point is either argue the point or dont. But dont post such personalised rubbish.

Kermit.de.frog

brickster69 wrote: »

https://tradingeconomics.com/ireland/government-revenues

Interest is 10,413€ Billion / year

Read more at: https://commodity.com/debt-clock/ireland/

Is that 50% of the state's annual income?

boetstark

Mad_maxx wrote: »

the last two months have shown that if government has the will , they can do anything , those who work in nursing homes should have been forcibly cocooned themselves but compensated for the inconvenience , employ a guard to chaparone them to and fro from work so they dont mix with others if need be

your second point is altogether plain wrong , this disease is effectively harmless for the young but a tiny minority of young people die each year of various ailments , covid 19 is remarkably age specific in terms of who it most targets

there are outliers and a small minority of people of all age profiles are vulnerable due to underlying conditions but these are statistically insignificant , we should not have crippled the economy to counter such eventualities , time will prove doing so has created more death sentences than covid 19 ever could

Horse****, my neighbour is an icu nurse, 2 cases are both under 50 and still in icu after 3 weeks. Previously healthy and no underlying condition. I know both because they are work colleagues.

Ginger n Lemon

I see one poster here wants us to be positive. Well, please see below:

anti body testing carried out in Germany, found Covid19 to have mortality rate of 0.36%.

anti body testing carried out in New york state, found covid 19 to have 0.56% mortality rate.

anti body testing carried out in california found covid19 to have 0.12% mortality rate.

In all 3 of these, over 15% of population already had covid19 and, as we have been told from the very start, had no symptoms/very mild symptoms.

I just hope when this is all over, we will have a responsible government who will create laws to ensure that some mad scientists cant just crash our economies and way of life based on their "models".

PS shocking story about a poster having delayed treatment, really hope it is scheduled asap. 1 thing is for sure, 1000+ people will sue HSE when this all over and pay outs will easily be worth more money than half a country on the dole for 3 months. bailout chances are increasing by the day...

[Deleted User]

The saddest thing is, we’ll never know how many died or suffered terribly from the lockdown.
Thousands could be dead as a result of appointments cancelled or treatment cancelled or fear of going the hospital. It’s ridiculous that this is happening!

The recession will be awful. Unemployment, rises in suicide, addiction, crime, mental health issues and so many more things. Funding cut across the board. People losing their homes.

I don’t doubt that Covid 19 is fairly serious. It will probably kill a couple of thousand Irish, mainly over 65.

But the end result would have been better than what we are in for.

Nobody will ever be able to put a figure on how die during recession. No one will ever admit how many died as a result of missed treatments. We’ll give ourselves a pat on the back for “saving lives”

Mad_maxx

gozunda wrote: »

It does not matter whether you or anyone are mandated not to mix with he "over 70s". Their carers live in the wider community. There is no way that those in nursing homes (with the current issue of care home outbreaks) and other elderly people can totally effectively cocoon or completely socially isolate whilst staff and carers interact with them but also others in the wider community. There are calls for care home staff to completely isolate but I've no idea whether that's totally realistic either.

But more importantly - the issue of Covid-19 is not only with the over 70s and those in care homes. Only half the current deaths can be attributed to this cohort. Vulneralbities exist across all age groups - whether asthma, diabetes or other long term illnesses. And the disease affects a significant proportion of otherwise healthy under 70 year olds and results in a significant number of those infected being hospitalised.

And precisely becsuse of that - countries across the would have adopted restrictions to control the numbers of those infected and to prevent health services being overrun. This is not unique to Ireland btw. It is a fact that many other countries are further along with their restrictions and / or have varying demographics than us.

the last two months have shown that if government has the will , they can do anything , those who work in nursing homes should have been forcibly cocooned themselves but compensated for the inconvenience , employ a guard to chaparone them to and fro from work so they dont mix with others if need be

your second point is altogether plain wrong , this disease is effectively harmless for the young but a tiny minority of young people die each year of various ailments , covid 19 is remarkably age specific in terms of who it most targets

there are outliers and a small minority of people of all age profiles are vulnerable due to underlying conditions but these are statistically insignificant , we should not have crippled the economy to counter such eventualities , time will prove doing so has created more death sentences than covid 19 ever could

gozunda

Mad_maxx wrote: »

the nursing homes is a disaster and its horrible for the elderly people who live there but that is a seperate issue to the closing down the whole economy and a specific policy failure , we ( under seventies ) could have been instructed not to mix with elderly people and they not to mix with us , we have a responsibility not to infect but they have a responsibility to protect themselves , the over seventies may need to cocoon for a couple of years if no cure is found , the rest of us cant suspend our existence

It does not matter whether you or anyone are mandated not to mix with he "over 70s". Their carers live in the wider community. There is no way that those in nursing homes (with the current issue of care home outbreaks) and other elderly people can totally effectively cocoon or completely socially isolate whilst staff and carers interact with them but also others in the wider community. There are calls for care staff to completely isolate but I've no idea whether that's totally realistic either.

But more importantly - the issue of Covid-19 is not only with the over 70s and those in care homes. Only half the current deaths can be attributed to this cohort. Vulneralbities exist across all age groups - whether asthma, diabetes or other long term illnesses. And the disease affects a significant proportion of otherwise healthy under 70 year olds and results in a significant number of those infected being hospitalised.

And precisely because of this - countries across the would have adopted restrictions to control the numbers of those infected and to prevent health services being overrun. This is not unique to Ireland btw. It is a fact that many other countries are further along with their restrictions and / or have varying demographics than us.

LiquidZeb

gozunda wrote: »

Really?

LiquidZeb thats your best shot? Tbh the quality of your posts to others - like above is going downhill rapidly. Either engage with the argument or dont. Eitherway theres no need for the rabid personalisations like these ...

I'll leave you to it ...

You shouldn't have reposted the second one. I got a good telling off from the mod for posting such obscene content in this good Christian forum. Also did you really trawl through my recent posts to take them completely out of context? You should follow your own advice.

LiquidZeb

Loozer wrote: »

They'll be on here later when they get stoned

"Just chill and sit the fuk back and watch Netflix"

Little realising the circumstances some are stuck with atm mental health, abuse ,finances etc

It's some of the most let them eat cake bs I've seen in my life.

Mad_maxx

gozunda wrote: »

Yeah it's all a big conspiracy by the grey brigade. :rolleyes:

You need to cop on to the fact that the reason for the restrictions (just like other countries) is to reduce the number of active cases and to stop health services been overrun.

Those at risk - including the elderly in care homes do not exist in isolation. They cannot totally socially distance or completly cocoon as they live in high density settings with staff and other services coming from the wider community. Just one asymptomatic or presympotamic person and the infection spreads like wildfire in such settings. The same problems exist in other countries. It is not unique to Ireland in case you think it is..

And yes there are whingers on this thread who need a reality check. Yes a global recession is immiment. However things will get better and yes we need to deal with the current pandemic which poses a risk to all sectors of society ...

the nursing homes is a disaster and its horrible for the elderly people who live there but that is a seperate issue to the closing down the whole economy and a specific policy failure , we ( under seventies ) could have been instructed not to mix with elderly people and they not to mix with us , we have a responsibility not to infect but they have a responsibility to protect themselves , the over seventies may need to cocoon for a couple of years if no cure is found , the rest of us cant suspend our existence