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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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NIMAN

lord quackinton wrote: »

I am sure this link has been posted already but please I encourage everyone to read it very slowly and think about all the numbers involved
When the Covid 350 and the wage subsidy ends there will be mayhem
This jolly is going to cost us our children’s futures
I hope all the lockdown supporters on here can forgive themselves for the carnage that is coming

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0505/1136475-covid19-coronavirus-industry/

Those numbers are scary.

stephenjmcd

JoeA3 wrote: »

Ivan Yeats is on fire! Newstalk right now...

What was he saying?

What Username Guidelines

uli84 wrote: »

Workers aged under 35 account for over 43% of recipients of the payment.

well, hello, how many under 35 died to date? Not too many id say. That sums up why extending this is bad in so many ways

While I see the logic here, I've wondered how this fact could be used practically? Everyone under 40 back to work and/or normal consumer spending and allow it to burn through.. Its a complex one.

hmmm

lord quackinton wrote: »

I am sure this link has been posted already but please I encourage everyone to read it very slowly and think about all the numbers involved
When the Covid 350 and the wage subsidy ends there will be mayhem
This jolly is going to cost us our children’s futures
I hope all the lockdown supporters on here can forgive themselves for the carnage that is coming

Everyone realises there is an economic impact of the measures taken.

I'm hopeful the overall IFR is lower than thought, but there is no way to avoid this overloading our health system if we let it spread unchecked. What number of deaths from Covid would you consider to be an acceptable cost in return for removing some/all of the restrictions?

uli84

lord quackinton wrote: »

I am sure this link has been posted already but please I encourage everyone to read it very slowly and think about all the numbers involved
When the Covid 350 and the wage subsidy ends there will be mayhem
This jolly is going to cost us our children’s futures
I hope all the lockdown supporters on here can forgive themselves for the carnage that is coming

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0505/1136475-covid19-coronavirus-industry/

Workers aged under 35 account for over 43% of recipients of the payment.

well, hello, how many under 35 died to date? Not too many id say. That sums up why extending this is bad in so many ways

[Deleted User]

lord quackinton wrote: »

I am sure this link has been posted already but please I encourage everyone to read it very slowly and think about all the numbers involved
When the Covid 350 and the wage subsidy ends there will be mayhem
This jolly is going to cost us our children’s futures
I hope all the lockdown supporters on here can forgive themselves for the carnage that is coming

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0505/1136475-covid19-coronavirus-industry/

Who is a lockdown supporter - the sooner this is under control, the sooner more people can get back to work, and the less likely they will have to close businesses again due to a second wave.

Breezin

Further research from Germany casting doubt on the higher claims for infection rates. If it's not opening here's the YouTube link.

lord quackinton

I am sure this link has been posted already but please I encourage everyone to read it very slowly and think about all the numbers involved
When the Covid 350 and the wage subsidy ends there will be mayhem
This jolly is going to cost us our children’s futures
I hope all the lockdown supporters on here can forgive themselves for the carnage that is coming

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0505/1136475-covid19-coronavirus-industry/

[Deleted User]

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Nature of the risks? is this Irish for "Lets stay at home and put young generation into poverty?"

Kermit, has any country on this planet experienced a second wave?

Yes, Japan’s northern region of Hokkaido. The reason? They lifted the restrictions too quickly.

Penfailed

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I dont think so. I actually think that German government are so confident this is not a deadly disease that they are allowing 22 guys get in close contact with each other for 90 minutes. On 1 corner you ll easily have 18 lads grappling with each other.

You are right, 10 players from 1734 tested did have covid19 and are now isolated. And its still going ahead. And thats wonderful. We need strong leaders like Germany have, who are not going to be flip flopping their strategy based on "models" or "estimates" or "dreaded 2nd wave might come, lets give it 3 more months stay at home to save lives and put people into poverty".

Nothing in this post has anything to do with Easypazz being disingenuous. You are making a separate point.

JoeA3

Ivan Yeats is on fire! Newstalk right now...

What Username Guidelines

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Kermit could we work with facts please instead of science? Science predicted 65,000 dead from Swine flu in UK, 392 died. So, pass.

Ok so Denmark, Germany, Austria, Czech Republic, Norway, Finland have all opened up their economies, schools opened since 14th of April in Denmark, barbers 21st of April.

Where are those spikes? where is the 2nd wave?? Why are thousands of people not dying in those countries? Why is Bundesliga going to play its games on 16th of May, are they mad?

Ohhh the dreaded 2nd wave, must be applicable in Ireland only?

The governments roadmap is way too slow imo, they seem to think they can afford it and it will work, but if we have to roll back it will be even more of an economic nightmare. One thing to note on those other countries opening up, is that mask wearing seems to be common at least on public transport and in shops. Here, they're only gonna recommend it, if at all, and you can already see the attitude of "well, you better give them out free or I wont wear one" which I worry about. Same attitude of people who think they're beating the system as the restrictions cant be policed, when in reality they're just prolonging the whole thing which causes more economic damage.

Class MayDresser

When will horse racing return to the picture anyone guess? It's the add on s that actually come with the sport holding it back I'd suppose.

Ginger n Lemon

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The statement that those countries have "opened up their economies" is not true either.

They have taken minimal initial steps in a graduated approach each to varying degrees. They are not functioning normally, far from it.

And they are on notice to increase the measures they lift over the next few months again should cases and transmission spike.

There is a lot of simplistic fake news going around (mostly by anti government illumunati cranks) that's being picked up by reasonably intelligent people who just have certain vulnerabilities to the impact (employment or whatever)...and that's fine, some are worried.

It does not change the reality of the situation though and ridiculous remedies like "how many people have died since April 21st" are not impressive either given the nature of the risks.

It's all ludicrous argument but you have to except that. It's a tiny minority and no matter what you say they don't listen anyway.

So just let them roll with it in my humble opinion.

It does not change anything.

Nature of the risks? is this Irish for "Lets stay at home and put young generation into poverty?"

Kermit, has any country on this planet experienced a second wave? If no, are you just scaring us and want us to be in Guinness world book of records for longest lockdown?

Penfailed

jmayo wrote: »

Aren't you being a bit disingenuous when you don't give the full picture about the Bundesliga supposedly going to play their matches.

He has form for not giving the full picture. Yesterday it was that some pubs in Spain are opening. Turns out, it was four Spanish islands with a low C-19 infection rate and they are only allowed to open the outdoor areas at a 30% capacity...but yeah, HEADLINE - Pubs in Spain open but not here waaaahhhhh.

Naos

hmmm wrote: »

Don't laugh now, but opening the pubs would be easier if they didn't serve alcohol, or limited customers in some way. Pissed people staggering into toilets and generally unable to be physically distant does not sound like a good place to start to relax restrictions.

When they open pubs, I think it would be a good idea to have time limit for your stay, say 2 hours or so.

Considering there will be less occupants allowed in due to social distancing measures, it will mean more people get to enjoy going to the pub for a few pints as well as limit the amount people can drink, so there's less chance of breaking social distancing etiquette.

I realise that's a bit draconian but it's possibly the best way to start things off.

Ginger n Lemon

jmayo wrote: »

Aren't you being a bit disingenuous when you don't give the full picture about the Bundesliga supposedly going to play their matches.
You don't mention they are in empty stadiums, may involve a ban on players celebrataing together and even rumour they may have to wear masks ?

In fact 10 people linked to top two tiers have been confirmed with covid19 this week.

I dont think so. I actually think that German government are so confident this is not a deadly disease that they are allowing 22 guys get in close contact with each other for 90 minutes. On 1 corner you ll easily have 18 lads grappling with each other.

You are right, 10 players from 1734 tested did have covid19 and are now isolated. And its still going ahead. And thats wonderful. We need strong leaders like Germany have, who are not going to be flip flopping their strategy based on "models" or "estimates" or "dreaded 2nd wave might come, lets give it 3 more months stay at home to save lives and put people into poverty".

Kermit.de.frog

jmayo wrote: »

Aren't you being a bit disingenuous when you don't give the full picture about the Bundesliga supposedly going to play their matches.
You don't mention they are in empty stadiums, may involve a ban on players celebrataing together and even rumour they may have to wear masks ?

In fact 10 people linked to top two tiers have been confirmed with covid19 this week.

The statement that those countries have "opened up their economies" is not true either.

They have taken minimal initial steps in a graduated approach each to varying degrees. They are not functioning normally, far from it.

And they are on notice to increase the measures they lift over the next few months again should cases and transmission spike.

There is a lot of simplistic fake news going around (mostly by anti government illumunati fearing cranks) that's being picked up by reasonably intelligent people who just have certain vulnerabilities to the impact (employment or whatever)...and that's fine, some are worried.

It does not change the reality of the situation though and ridiculous remedies like "how many people have died since April 21st?" are not impressive either given the nature of the risks.

It's all ludicrous argument but you have to accept that. It's a tiny minority and no matter what you say they don't listen anyway.

So just let them roll with it in my humble opinion.

It does not change anything.

Naos

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Youve pointed out that the deaths in this country are low because of lockdown restrictions. I am unsure of this, because there is a country out there with nearly identical death rate but with no lockdown restrictions. Thats the "incorrect part". There is another country out there too, Belarus, no lockdown, less than 200 deaths, population 9.5m. its an unpopular country I admit, but it exists, and videos of 1000 + body bags on the streets in Belarus are not exactly circulating are they...

Right then, let's look at our closest neighbour who ignored the lockdown.

They have around twice as many deaths as us per 100k. Care to explain that one?

robbiezero

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Kermit could we work with facts please instead of science? Science predicted 65,000 dead from Swine flu in UK, 392 died. So, pass.

Ok so Denmark, Germany, Austria, Czech Republic, Norway, Finland have all opened up their economies, schools opened since 14th of April in Denmark, barbers 21st of April.

Where are those spikes? where is the 2nd wave?? Why are thousands of people not dying in those countries? Why is Bundesliga going to play its games on 16th of May, are they mad?

Ohhh the dreaded 2nd wave, must be applicable in Ireland only?

Reading this thread, you would think the Irish are a different species to other countries.

Drunks,
Can't obey rules,
Overweight,
can't stop touching each other
.........

tobefrank321

JPCN1 wrote: »

According to Martin Wall also in Today's Irish Times...

"This means there are about 1.23 million workers relying on State support for all or part of their income"

That is beyond bleak... even if we get many of them back to work with the promised State loans the fact that tourism sector has missed a summer means a great many will be non viable.

But you also have public sector workers who are paid by the state.

And also pensioners.

And a range of social supports everyone receives in normal times.

We cannot afford a lockdown long term or even to go into lockdown again. We have to become world class at living with this virus which likely means masks on public transport and for public facing workers until there is a vaccine.

jmayo

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Kermit could we work with facts please instead of science? Science predicted 65,000 dead from Swine flu in UK, 392 died. So, pass.

Ok so Denmark, Germany, Austria, Czech Republic, Norway, Finland have all opened up their economies, schools opened since 14th of April in Denmark, barbers 21st of April.

Where are those spikes? where is the 2nd wave?? Why are thousands of people not dying in those countries? Why is Bundesliga going to play its games on 16th of May, are they mad?

Ohhh the dreaded 2nd wave, must be applicable in Ireland only?

Aren't you being a bit disingenuous when you don't give the full picture about the Bundesliga supposedly going to play their matches.
You don't mention they are in empty stadiums, may involve a ban on players celebrataing together and even rumour they may have to wear masks ?

In fact 10 people linked to top two tiers have been confirmed with covid19 this week.

Penfailed

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

There is work going on. There are plenty of barbers who provide a safe haircut, make a living wage and contribute to society.

And then there are people who collect 350 eur per week and think that pubs should not be allowed to re open as how could they possibly do social distancing there.

About a week or so ago, those that wanted to open the country up again on here were saying, "It's not about getting to the pub, we just want our economy moving again." Now every second post from the same people is pub related *shrugs shoulders*

timmy_mallet

mollser wrote: »

You clearly haven't been out with kids over the last 7 weeks Not so bad the last few weeks but at the start, when they were considered vectors and superspreaders, it was awful!

Yep. Still awful. When in reality it's the selfish, obese and unhealthy elderly that have caused it. Kids bear the full brunt of this when they are the least at risk, the least likely to acquire and the least likely to spread. Lock them all down to save Jimmy Hamburger and his 20 smokes.

JPCN1

Fann Linn wrote: »

According to data presented to Govt there is no clamour from the public for the lifting of restrictions and its just a vocal minority making that demand an ESRI report states in today's Times.

According to Martin Wall also in Today's Irish Times...

"This means there are about 1.23 million workers relying on State support for all or part of their income"

That is beyond bleak... even if we get many of them back to work with the promised State loans the fact that tourism sector has missed a summer means a great many will be non viable.

[Deleted User]

mollser wrote: »

You clearly haven't been out with kids over the last 7 weeks Not so bad the last few weeks but at the start, when they were considered vectors and superspreaders, it was awful!

Being honest with you. I think it would be easier to have set times for kids to go out . They don't understand they need to distance so they are running everywhere on foot, scooter and bike. I have never seen so many wobbly kids on bikes as the last few weeks.
I'm not elderly but tend to go out early morning or late evening to avoid hordes of rugrats on wheels.
,

Ginger n Lemon

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Do you realise how rediculous you are all going to look behaving the way you are if/when the second wave occurs and the health system ends up overwhelmed and a more comprehensive lock down needs to be put in place?

It's just this reckless, selfish and belligerent attitude from the handful of posters here could really come back to bite you.

It's not a good place to be psychologically in my opinion when this blows up again in our faces.

However, I endorse the government's sensible and prudent approach.

We need to do everything we can to avoid the worst consequences of the next wave of the virus.

The measures are entirely appropriate, the time line is great and the vast majority of right thinking people in this country fully accept it is the correct way forward.

Work with science, not belief. It will all work out better in the end :cool:

Kermit could we work with facts please instead of science? Science predicted 65,000 dead from Swine flu in UK, 392 died. So, pass.

Ok so Denmark, Germany, Austria, Czech Republic, Norway, Finland have all opened up their economies, schools opened since 14th of April in Denmark, barbers 21st of April.

Where are those spikes? where is the 2nd wave?? Why are thousands of people not dying in those countries? Why is Bundesliga going to play its games on 16th of May, are they mad?

Ohhh the dreaded 2nd wave, must be applicable in Ireland only?

gmisk

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Yeh . I do one big shop once a week too . No need to go any more often . It does seem a bit odd to pick a time when kids are more likely to be out
I will be going walking in a park early as I think it’s probably best when the families are not yet out

I agree early would be best I walk the dog at 8/830 and always very quiet.
If the weather turns as well it will also get even quieter.

iamwhoiam

gmisk wrote: »

Ah your could be right, that might be the logic.
But surely they shouldn't be shopping that much?
I know my folks who are just under 70 do one huge shop a week.

Yeh . I do one big shop once a week too . No need to go any more often . It does seem a bit odd to pick a time when kids are more likely to be out
I will be going walking in a park early as I think it’s probably best when the families are not yet out

Kermit.de.frog

easypazz wrote: »

Its nothing short of criminal now the damage that is being done with this kick the can down the road plan.

Compared to the time frames in most other places we are almost alone as a complete outlier.

Do you realise how ridiculous you are all going to look behaving the way you are if/when the second wave occurs and the health system ends up overwhelmed and a more comprehensive lock down needs to be put in place?

It's just this reckless, selfish and belligerent attitude from the handful of posters here could really come back to bite you.

It's not a good place to be psychologically in my opinion when this blows up again in our faces.

However, I endorse the government's sensible and prudent approach.

We need to do everything we can to avoid the worst consequences of the next wave of the virus.

The measures are entirely appropriate, the time line is great and the vast majority of right thinking people in this country fully accept it is the correct way forward.

Work with science, not belief. It will all work out better in the end :cool: