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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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JRant

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

As sure as night follows day but disappointing none the less

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0505/1136472-coronavirus-covid19-ireland/

This isn't surprising given the lack of care displayed by many the last couple of weeks.

A very slight increase in admissions but ICU numbers are still heading downwards. Very good news IMO.

132 ICU beds available with 90+ already in ICU. Me thinks Leo & Co were telling porkie pies about having upwards of 500 ICU beds available for the tsunami before the surge.

snowcat

SusieBlue wrote: »

Simon, Leo, and Tony H said several times over that the purpose of restricting freedom and movement was to delay the spread. We have been in this phase (phase 2) since March 12th.
They never at any point have stated that lockdown will kill off the virus so it’s quite astonishing to see people still advocating to continue with these restrictions, knowing that even if we got the daily cases down to 0, they will inevitably rise again as soon as any industry is opened up.
We are suppressing the inevitable.

This is true. NZ and other countries with very low rates are now hugely susceptable to a second wave as they have no herd tolerence at all.

https://sway.office.com/PwTN7GCvJWDgn9yd

stephenjmcd

Naos wrote: »

Why are you arguing with Alwald?

He is stating people who can work from home will be expected to continue to do so. If you need to go into the office because you cannot access hardware or need to physically be there for whatever reason, then you are not one of these people who can continue to work from home.

His point was WFH will be mandatory, I said it wont and gave him 2 examples of large offices in Dublin giving their employees the choice after 10th August. Which is essentially what they always had and the majority were in the office.

I'm well aware of who can and cant WFH, I've been dealing with it for the last 3 months in my own office.

ChelseaRentBoy

As sure as night follows day but disappointing none the less

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0505/1136472-coronavirus-covid19-ireland/

This isn't surprising given the lack of care displayed by many the last couple of weeks.

Naos

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Good for them. You'll be in for a shock on the 10th so when offices will be open. Not everyone in every office can work from home indefinitely. Projects to be finished and deadlines to be kept.

Why are you arguing with Alwald?

He is stating people who can work from home will be expected to continue to do so. If you need to go into the office because you cannot access hardware or need to physically be there for whatever reason, then you are not one of these people who can continue to work from home.

[Deleted User]

SusieBlue wrote: »

Simon, Leo, and Tony H said several times over that the purpose of restricting freedom and movement was to delay the spread. We have been in this phase (phase 2) since March 12th.
They never at any point have stated that lockdown will kill off the virus so it’s quite astonishing to see people still advocating to continue with these restrictions, knowing that even if we got the daily cases down to 0, they will inevitably rise again as soon as any industry is opened up.
We are suppressing the inevitable.

Plus there is an increasing amount of evidence that different types of lockdowns have not had a meaningful impact on the the trajectory of the virus through different European countries, whether Spain, Sweden or Ireland. Both epidemiologists on Newstalk this morning talking about hygiene, social distancing, testing and tracing being the mechanisms through which spread is managed - not lockdowns

kippy

SusieBlue wrote: »

Did it ever occur to you that people might have had other motivations for wanting to return to work other than having a gossip with their work mates?

Lockdown is not a cure for coronavirus. Lockdown is simply suppressing the inevitable spike in cases we will see as soon as we reopen services and industries.
It isn’t working, it’s just delaying. Indefinite lockdown will not make the virus go away.

8 weeks into this and you still don't get the reason for the restrictions.
No wonder we need to be told what to do.

NIMAN

It will be interesting to see what will happen when we see the inevitable spike in numbers once society is opened up again.

There is no doubt once we are all allowed to get back to work, shopping etc that the numbers infected will rise. Hopefully it won't happen in big numbers but it'll likely happen.

And if this does, good luck trying to tell the people we have to go back a phase towards locking stuff down again. I get the feeling once people get used to being in a phase of relaxation, they won't be the least bit interested in returning, especially if their lives seem to be back on track and no-one they know is infected.

Drifter50

road_high wrote: »

Many people have greater commitments in terms of mortgage, loans, cars etc- both in secure well paid employment until now. As another poster had said the €350 can not last much longer, I just can’t see that happening.
As for mortgage breaks- how long do you think they will go on for without movement from the banks and people’s credit ratings being destroyed?
The banks have commitments on their side too. This is extremely serious, I’m actually taken aback at the amount of people who think this can go on much longer without mega shocks.

Some posters on here don`t really know the rules here. The mortgage breaks are not automatic

The Central Bank had agreed to the banks allowing payment breaks on the basis that any mortgages in arrears were not eligible for a payment break. Approx 58,000 mortgages. Hence the customer that probably needs the payment breaks most cannot avail of this

Fann Linn

According to data presented to Govt there is no clamour from the public for the lifting of restrictions and its just a vocal minority making that demand an ESRI report states in today's Times.

Benimar

Charlie19 wrote: »

With the new phase of openings, is hardware stores opening up today?

There are no new openings today. The restrictions stay in place for 12 more days, with the exception that the distance you can go to exercise increases to 5k and the over 70s can go out of their houses.

Nothing that hasn’t been open for the last 5 weeks can open till May 18th.

Penfailed

SusieBlue wrote: »

Remember, we now have over 21k confirmed cases and we started with just 1 person.

For clarity, those 21,000 confirmed cases didn't all come from the spread from one person.

gozunda

SusieBlue wrote: »

Common sense, perhaps? We don’t have a cure, any immunity or a vaccine.
All it takes is one asymptomatic person to restart the spread again when things reopen. Remember, we now have over 21k confirmed cases and we started with just 1 person.
There’s no reason why that won’t happen again.
What makes you think there WON’T be a spike in cases when we ease restrictions?
As per the government directive, which you can view yourself online, we are currently in the delay phase. Note the use of the word ‘delay’. It doesn’t say anything about eradicating the virus, or killing off the virus, or curing the virus. It simply says delay.

Yes the current policy is to 'delay' the spread of the disease - for two important and related reasons. To keep a lid on the total number of infections so our health services do not get overwhelmed. Throw away this tool in managing the Pandemic and we risk having a massive spike in the rate of infection. Italians had to bring in fairly draconian measures to get a hold on the outbreak after things got out of control there. Their health services were simply overwhelmed. And it was not just the elderly - hospitals there reported a huge spike of infection of people in their forties and fifties and younger.

I dont believe anyone would like to see similar happening here. The 'inevitable' as you call it can be managed. And it's a fact many countries are working on a vaccine. And yes rates of infection can be controlled and restrictions can be rolled back as the numbers become stable. It's not perfect but its a damn sight better than opening the floodgates and doing absolutely nothing.

Arghus

SusieBlue wrote: »

So we just stay in lockdown forever, is it? Or until 2021 when we may or may not have a vaccine?
We can’t hide in our houses indefinitely, with no cure or vaccine on the horizon life must go on or there won’t be anything to go back to.
The virus is going nowhere and we need to learn to live alongside it.

No we can't stay in lockdown forever, and the plan isn't to stay in lockdown forever.

But we can't lift restrictions while the numbers in hospital, ICU and active cases are all still higher than when restrictions were introduced in the first place.

SusieBlue

Arghus wrote: »

You make good arguments in favour of keeping the lockdown in place.

So we just stay in lockdown forever, is it? Or until 2021 when we may or may not have a vaccine?
We can’t hide in our houses indefinitely, with no cure or vaccine on the horizon life must go on or there won’t be anything to go back to.
The virus is going nowhere and we need to learn to live alongside it.

Arghus

SusieBlue wrote: »

Common sense, perhaps? We don’t have a cure, any immunity or a vaccine.
All it takes is one asymptomatic person to restart the spread again when things reopen. Remember, we now have over 21k confirmed cases and we started with just 1 person.
There’s no reason why that won’t happen again.
What makes you think there WON’T be a spike in cases when we ease restrictions?
As per the government directive, which you can view yourself online, we are currently in the delay phase. Note the use of the word ‘delay’. It doesn’t say anything about eradicating the virus, or killing off the virus, or curing the virus. It simply says delay.

You make good arguments in favour of keeping the lockdown in place.

Charlie19

With the new phase of openings, is hardware stores opening up today?

Tell me how

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

My local barber is open, you need to make an appointment and he has his blinds down so people can't see inside.

I know people won't be happy to hear that but I say fair play to him we need to get this country back up and running.

Imagine the guards raiding a barbers and arresting people for getting their haircut...

I imagine some people would think that this is what happened and use it as another stick to beat the Gardai with.

In reality, they would be arrested for failing to comply with rules specifically enacted so as to prevent the spread of the most impactful disease in 100 years.

The selfishness of anyone thinking their physical appearance is more important than doing what they are being asked to do for a couple of months is worrying.

Tell me how

retro:electro wrote: »

It’s the lack of it being challenged in the mainstream is what I can’t understand. The timeline seems to have swallowed up wholesale by most in the public eye. Nobody seems to be questioning why TF we have three more months of this ahead of us while the rest of Europe is lifting restrictions left right and centre. A few more weeks, yeah grand. Three more months being dragged out while the rest of the world is moving on is fcuking torturous and nonsensical

I think the people in charge have taken the 'under promise and over deliver approach', if there is progress and the r rate doesn't climb, they can move a phase forward at the click of their fingers.
Going in the other direction because things have gotten very bad very quickly would be much more difficult.
Don't think anyone in charge expects the outlined phase will play out exactly as announced, but if it does, I think it will be because it had to.

Why would they want to prolong this? Massive flow of money out versus what is coming in and a very disconcerted populace, I'd say they'd love to say we have a handle on this and lets open up at speed. As for NPHET apparently running the country as some people have said, are we really saying that it is a problem that the government is taking advice of experts during a global pandemic?

I'm still in US and there are reports today that they expect the death rate to increase to 3,000/day in June while they continue to open up and there are reports that the Florida medical examiner was asked to withhold Covid-19 death figures as they try to accelerate their reopening.

Charles Babbage

easypazz wrote: »

What threat does a lad on a bike with a litre of milk pose?

What planet are you on?
He could give you a disease that could kill you.

gozunda

gozunda wrote:

Yeah you've told us many times now you dont believe anything about the Pandemic the experts are telling you...

easypazz wrote:

Never said that.

Really? Trouble with spouting such rubbish is actually remembering what you do say. You've said similar many times. This was the latest contribution.

easypazz wrote: »

On 23 January director of the HSE's Health Protection Surveillance Centre said the risk of coronavirus cases in Ireland was “quite low”, “If we were to see a case in a European country the risk of a secondary case – a person transmitting to somebody else – is also low”.

The above was the position of Irish "experts" in January. These same clueless people are now presiding over possibly the most conservative unwinding plan in Europe or even the world.

It is disappointing that so many people continue to blindly follow their doctrine and never question anything.

And before you try to bluster your way out of that with your constant 'yeah but they were wrong' or wtte -

Yes the HSE got it wrong at that time as they were following WHO guidance based on Chinese information. .

That however does not mean that knowledge of the disease and how if has affected other countries has not progressed. If clearly has. Europe now has it's own data to work from.

More importantly you "said that". But to keep endlessly beating the same worn out old drum at this point - it is simply sad - and nothing more.

SusieBlue

Ahwell wrote: »

And how exactly are you qualified to make such a definite prediction?

Common sense, perhaps? We don’t have a cure, any immunity or a vaccine.
All it takes is one asymptomatic person to restart the spread again when things reopen. Remember, we now have over 21k confirmed cases and we started with just 1 person.
There’s no reason why that won’t happen again.
What makes you think there WON’T be a spike in cases when we ease restrictions?
As per the government directive, which you can view yourself online, we are currently in the delay phase. Note the use of the word ‘delay’. It doesn’t say anything about eradicating the virus, or killing off the virus, or curing the virus. It simply says delay.

alwald

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Eh no I'm not talking it personally, I've given you the facts from 2 large companies that I know of. So believe whatever you want. I'll sleep great thanks.

I merely stated the guidelines of the government and the fact that a lot of companies care about how they are perceived on social media.
There will be jobs that will require to be in an office, and quite frankly I won't be in any kind of shock as I have nothing to gain from this.

SusieBlue

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

You should tell that to most of the world who had lockdowns.

Surely with your vast knowledge someone would have listened to you?

Simon, Leo, and Tony H said several times over that the purpose of restricting freedom and movement was to delay the spread. We have been in this phase (phase 2) since March 12th.
They never at any point have stated that lockdown will kill off the virus so it’s quite astonishing to see people still advocating to continue with these restrictions, knowing that even if we got the daily cases down to 0, they will inevitably rise again as soon as any industry is opened up.
We are suppressing the inevitable.

stephenjmcd

alwald wrote: »

You are taking the content of my post too personally Stephen...I hope you will sleep well!

Eh no I'm not talking it personally, I've given you the facts from 2 large companies that I know of. So believe whatever you want. I'll sleep great thanks.

stephenjmcd

SusieBlue wrote: »

Did it ever occur to you that people might have had other motivations for wanting to return to work other than having a gossip with their work mates?

Lockdown is not a cure for coronavirus. Lockdown is simply suppressing the inevitable spike in cases we will see as soon as we reopen services and industries.
It isn’t working, it’s just delaying. Indefinite lockdown will not make the virus go away.

As much as I miss the social aspect of the office my reasons for going in already and for upping my days in the office in the next few weeks aren't social based at all.

I can work from home, do about 60% of my normal work, but I can't do physical work needed, work in IT so hardware work etc we cant do from home. Secondly I don't have the space at home to put in a desk set up, so working off the laptop all day is giving me neck and back problems not to mention awful headaches having gone from 2 large monitors at my desk to a 16 inch laptop for 7hrs a day.

WFH doesn't work for everyone.

alwald

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Good for them. You'll be in for a shock on the 10th so when offices will be open. Not everyone in every office can work from home indefinitely. Projects to be finished and deadlines to be kept.

You are taking the content of my post too personally Stephen...I hope you will sleep well!

[Deleted User]

SusieBlue wrote: »

Lockdown is not a cure for coronavirus. Lockdown is simply suppressing the inevitable spike in cases we will see as soon as we reopen services and industries.
It isn’t working, it’s just delaying. Indefinite lockdown will not make the virus go away.

And how exactly are you qualified to make such a definite prediction?

Jinglejangle69

SusieBlue wrote: »

Did it ever occur to you that people might have had other motivations for wanting to return to work other than having a gossip with their work mates?

Lockdown is not a cure for coronavirus. Lockdown is simply suppressing the inevitable spike in cases we will see as soon as we reopen services and industries.
It isn’t working, it’s just delaying. Indefinite lockdown will not make the virus go away.

You should tell that to most of the world who had lockdowns.

Surely with your vast knowledge someone would have listened to you?

stephenjmcd

alwald wrote: »

Remote working continues for all workers or businesses that can do so
A lot of companies care about how they are perceived in LinkedIn/Social media and not respecting the government guidelines will give them bad publicity.

Good for them. You'll be in for a shock on the 10th so when offices will be open. Not everyone in every office can work from home indefinitely. Projects to be finished and deadlines to be kept.