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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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lord quackinton

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/dont-wear-gloves-shopping-or-out-and-about-hse-infection-control-experts-warn-39179163.html

Now we are so stupid we don’t know how to wear and dispose of plastic gloves
No one can deny we are living in a nanny state, this virus has just magnified it
The state and its arms Know best , the people are dum dums who cant be trusted to act rationally

FintanMcluskey

lord quackinton wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/dont-wear-gloves-shopping-or-out-and-about-hse-infection-control-experts-warn-39179163.html

Now we are so stupid we don’t know how to wear and dispose of plastic gloves
No one can deny we are living in a nanny state, this virus has just magnified it
The state and its arms Know best , the people are dum dums who cant be trusted to act rationally

Once a report repeatedly mentions "bugs", its using language that a parent uses when potty training a child

stephenjmcd

easypazz wrote: »

Is that down from 900 in hospital yesterday.

Need to see new cases go down next.

At 8pm yesteday there was 665 confirmed cases and 241 suspected.

8am today 672 and 331 suspected. 8pm today 680 and 247 suspected. So pretty stable really no big increase.

Benimar

lord quackinton wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/dont-wear-gloves-shopping-or-out-and-about-hse-infection-control-experts-warn-39179163.html

Now we are so stupid we don’t know how to wear and dispose of plastic gloves
No one can deny we are living in a nanny state, this virus has just magnified it
The state and its arms Know best , the people are dum dums who cant be trusted to act rationally

Reading some of the comments on here, I think the State might have a point!

alwald

stephenjmcd wrote: »

At 8pm yesteday there was 665 confirmed cases and 241 suspected.

8am today 672 and 331 suspected. 8pm today 680 and 247 suspected. So pretty stable really no big increase.

It means the lockdown restrictions are working and must continue...work from home will be mandatory by the way so I doubt anyone will be back to the office after 10/08 just because they miss their chat/gossip with their colleagues.

dashdoll

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Which completely contradicts itself. If offices can open 10th August they will, be up to them to decide or give staff the option of working from home or not.

I'll be back in soon as my office reopens

Keeping offices closed beyond the necessary timeframe will hurt the economy even more. I left my decent job voluntarily in February the plan being to go travelling for a few months which I've always wanted to do. Obviously that didn't materialise and won't either. Chances of me getting a new job in my sector are slim to none at the moment because everywhere is working from home and not considering hiring while that goes on so I'm pretty much up **** creek for now with bills still coming in!

NIMAN

NDWC wrote: »

Why are there people saying we haven't been in lockdown? Of course we have.

Ok fair enough it hasn't been a Wuhan style "weld the doors shut" type lockdown but for all intents and purposes it's been a lockdown.

Who cares what term is used? The lads on here that are constantly crying about posters using the term lockdown need to get a life.

Of course it was a total lockdown. Anyone who argues otherwise is just being pedantic. Even the gov would tell you it was a total lockdown.

It was really only food shops and chemists open. There was no reason to go out cos there was nothing to do. Initially we went to the local beach or football pitch to kick the ball, then they told us we couldn't do that.

They told all businesses to close. They took the unemployment rate from 4% to 22% in a fortnight .

Ok, so they let some takeaways stay open. Big deal.

storker

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

No thats a film or fantasy of yours you are describing.

This is as strict a lockdown as Ireland could implement.

Yes...which falls short of a full lockdown. :rolleyes:

.

growleaves

Suspension of the Dáil, suspension of elections, prohibition of protests, working only as directed labour in approved activities, control of what you can buy, indefinite forbidding of all church activities (masses, weddings, confirmations, christenings), prohibition of all real-life social and extended family life, prohibition of all performing arts, prohibition of travel internal and external, multiplication of coercive rules and laws, pervasive police impositions etc., etc., etc.

It is more restrictive than Brezhnev-era Soviet Communism, but less restrictive than a martial-law state where soldiers order people around with guns.

There's no agreed definition of a "lockdown", the word was spontaneously borrowed from prison jargon only recently.

magic17

JMNolan wrote: »

That's the danger of having a plan that is so long to execute, the majority will use their own judgement to decide what to do. Especially when we see Italy, France, Spain and the rest of Europe opening up as we speak. No one has explained why we are so different to the rest of Europe.

I believe the main reason is our health system could collapse with the slightest bit of pressure. Years and years of neglect and they know this hence the overly cautious relaxation of restrictions.

stephenjmcd

alwald wrote: »

It means the lockdown restrictions are working and must continue...work from home will be mandatory by the way so I doubt anyone will be back to the office after 10/08 just because they miss their chat/gossip with their colleagues.

Work from home wont be mandatory, offices are allowed to open from 10th August. I've seen 2 emails from quite large companies in Dublin city centre (600+ staff) to staff giving them the option to continue to work from home if they wish but that they can return to the office from 10th August so long as phase 5 goes ahead on that date, social distancing measures to be in place. 1 of these offices is a major law firm with government contracts so I'd trust what they say.

My own office I've not heard yet but expecting the very same. Not that it bothers me too much, I've been in a few times and will probably start going back in 2 or 3 days in a week after the 18th and do the other days from home. Some things can't be done remotely and put off indefinitely

alwald

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Work from home wont be mandatory, offices are allowed to open from 10th August. I've seen 2 emails from quite large companies in Dublin city centre (600+ staff) to staff giving them the option to continue to work from home if they wish but that they can return to the office from 10th August so long as phase 5 goes ahead on that date, social distancing measures to be in place. 1 of these offices is a major law firm with government contracts so I'd trust what they say.

My own office I've not heard yet but expecting the very same.

Remote working continues for all workers or businesses that can do so
A lot of companies care about how they are perceived in LinkedIn/Social media and not respecting the government guidelines will give them bad publicity.

SusieBlue

alwald wrote: »

It means the lockdown restrictions are working and must continue...work from home will be mandatory by the way so I doubt anyone will be back to the office after 10/08 just because they miss their chat/gossip with their colleagues.

Did it ever occur to you that people might have had other motivations for wanting to return to work other than having a gossip with their work mates?

Lockdown is not a cure for coronavirus. Lockdown is simply suppressing the inevitable spike in cases we will see as soon as we reopen services and industries.
It isn’t working, it’s just delaying. Indefinite lockdown will not make the virus go away.

SNNUS

Is there anything to be said for having another lock down.. Careful now!

stephenjmcd

alwald wrote: »

Remote working continues for all workers or businesses that can do so
A lot of companies care about how they are perceived in LinkedIn/Social media and not respecting the government guidelines will give them bad publicity.

Good for them. You'll be in for a shock on the 10th so when offices will be open. Not everyone in every office can work from home indefinitely. Projects to be finished and deadlines to be kept.

Jinglejangle69

SusieBlue wrote: »

Did it ever occur to you that people might have had other motivations for wanting to return to work other than having a gossip with their work mates?

Lockdown is not a cure for coronavirus. Lockdown is simply suppressing the inevitable spike in cases we will see as soon as we reopen services and industries.
It isn’t working, it’s just delaying. Indefinite lockdown will not make the virus go away.

You should tell that to most of the world who had lockdowns.

Surely with your vast knowledge someone would have listened to you?

[Deleted User]

SusieBlue wrote: »

Lockdown is not a cure for coronavirus. Lockdown is simply suppressing the inevitable spike in cases we will see as soon as we reopen services and industries.
It isn’t working, it’s just delaying. Indefinite lockdown will not make the virus go away.

And how exactly are you qualified to make such a definite prediction?

alwald

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Good for them. You'll be in for a shock on the 10th so when offices will be open. Not everyone in every office can work from home indefinitely. Projects to be finished and deadlines to be kept.

You are taking the content of my post too personally Stephen...I hope you will sleep well!

stephenjmcd

SusieBlue wrote: »

Did it ever occur to you that people might have had other motivations for wanting to return to work other than having a gossip with their work mates?

Lockdown is not a cure for coronavirus. Lockdown is simply suppressing the inevitable spike in cases we will see as soon as we reopen services and industries.
It isn’t working, it’s just delaying. Indefinite lockdown will not make the virus go away.

As much as I miss the social aspect of the office my reasons for going in already and for upping my days in the office in the next few weeks aren't social based at all.

I can work from home, do about 60% of my normal work, but I can't do physical work needed, work in IT so hardware work etc we cant do from home. Secondly I don't have the space at home to put in a desk set up, so working off the laptop all day is giving me neck and back problems not to mention awful headaches having gone from 2 large monitors at my desk to a 16 inch laptop for 7hrs a day.

WFH doesn't work for everyone.

stephenjmcd

alwald wrote: »

You are taking the content of my post too personally Stephen...I hope you will sleep well!

Eh no I'm not talking it personally, I've given you the facts from 2 large companies that I know of. So believe whatever you want. I'll sleep great thanks.

SusieBlue

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

You should tell that to most of the world who had lockdowns.

Surely with your vast knowledge someone would have listened to you?

Simon, Leo, and Tony H said several times over that the purpose of restricting freedom and movement was to delay the spread. We have been in this phase (phase 2) since March 12th.
They never at any point have stated that lockdown will kill off the virus so it’s quite astonishing to see people still advocating to continue with these restrictions, knowing that even if we got the daily cases down to 0, they will inevitably rise again as soon as any industry is opened up.
We are suppressing the inevitable.

alwald

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Eh no I'm not talking it personally, I've given you the facts from 2 large companies that I know of. So believe whatever you want. I'll sleep great thanks.

I merely stated the guidelines of the government and the fact that a lot of companies care about how they are perceived on social media.
There will be jobs that will require to be in an office, and quite frankly I won't be in any kind of shock as I have nothing to gain from this.

SusieBlue

Ahwell wrote: »

And how exactly are you qualified to make such a definite prediction?

Common sense, perhaps? We don’t have a cure, any immunity or a vaccine.
All it takes is one asymptomatic person to restart the spread again when things reopen. Remember, we now have over 21k confirmed cases and we started with just 1 person.
There’s no reason why that won’t happen again.
What makes you think there WON’T be a spike in cases when we ease restrictions?
As per the government directive, which you can view yourself online, we are currently in the delay phase. Note the use of the word ‘delay’. It doesn’t say anything about eradicating the virus, or killing off the virus, or curing the virus. It simply says delay.

gozunda

gozunda wrote:

Yeah you've told us many times now you dont believe anything about the Pandemic the experts are telling you...

easypazz wrote:

Never said that.

Really? Trouble with spouting such rubbish is actually remembering what you do say. You've said similar many times. This was the latest contribution.

easypazz wrote: »

On 23 January director of the HSE's Health Protection Surveillance Centre said the risk of coronavirus cases in Ireland was “quite low”, “If we were to see a case in a European country the risk of a secondary case – a person transmitting to somebody else – is also low”.

The above was the position of Irish "experts" in January. These same clueless people are now presiding over possibly the most conservative unwinding plan in Europe or even the world.

It is disappointing that so many people continue to blindly follow their doctrine and never question anything.

And before you try to bluster your way out of that with your constant 'yeah but they were wrong' or wtte -

Yes the HSE got it wrong at that time as they were following WHO guidance based on Chinese information. .

That however does not mean that knowledge of the disease and how if has affected other countries has not progressed. If clearly has. Europe now has it's own data to work from.

More importantly you "said that". But to keep endlessly beating the same worn out old drum at this point - it is simply sad - and nothing more.

Charles Babbage

easypazz wrote: »

What threat does a lad on a bike with a litre of milk pose?

What planet are you on?
He could give you a disease that could kill you.

Tell me how

retro:electro wrote: »

It’s the lack of it being challenged in the mainstream is what I can’t understand. The timeline seems to have swallowed up wholesale by most in the public eye. Nobody seems to be questioning why TF we have three more months of this ahead of us while the rest of Europe is lifting restrictions left right and centre. A few more weeks, yeah grand. Three more months being dragged out while the rest of the world is moving on is fcuking torturous and nonsensical

I think the people in charge have taken the 'under promise and over deliver approach', if there is progress and the r rate doesn't climb, they can move a phase forward at the click of their fingers.
Going in the other direction because things have gotten very bad very quickly would be much more difficult.
Don't think anyone in charge expects the outlined phase will play out exactly as announced, but if it does, I think it will be because it had to.

Why would they want to prolong this? Massive flow of money out versus what is coming in and a very disconcerted populace, I'd say they'd love to say we have a handle on this and lets open up at speed. As for NPHET apparently running the country as some people have said, are we really saying that it is a problem that the government is taking advice of experts during a global pandemic?

I'm still in US and there are reports today that they expect the death rate to increase to 3,000/day in June while they continue to open up and there are reports that the Florida medical examiner was asked to withhold Covid-19 death figures as they try to accelerate their reopening.

Tell me how

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

My local barber is open, you need to make an appointment and he has his blinds down so people can't see inside.

I know people won't be happy to hear that but I say fair play to him we need to get this country back up and running.

Imagine the guards raiding a barbers and arresting people for getting their haircut...

I imagine some people would think that this is what happened and use it as another stick to beat the Gardai with.

In reality, they would be arrested for failing to comply with rules specifically enacted so as to prevent the spread of the most impactful disease in 100 years.

The selfishness of anyone thinking their physical appearance is more important than doing what they are being asked to do for a couple of months is worrying.

Charlie19

With the new phase of openings, is hardware stores opening up today?

Arghus

SusieBlue wrote: »

Common sense, perhaps? We don’t have a cure, any immunity or a vaccine.
All it takes is one asymptomatic person to restart the spread again when things reopen. Remember, we now have over 21k confirmed cases and we started with just 1 person.
There’s no reason why that won’t happen again.
What makes you think there WON’T be a spike in cases when we ease restrictions?
As per the government directive, which you can view yourself online, we are currently in the delay phase. Note the use of the word ‘delay’. It doesn’t say anything about eradicating the virus, or killing off the virus, or curing the virus. It simply says delay.

You make good arguments in favour of keeping the lockdown in place.

SusieBlue

Arghus wrote: »

You make good arguments in favour of keeping the lockdown in place.

So we just stay in lockdown forever, is it? Or until 2021 when we may or may not have a vaccine?
We can’t hide in our houses indefinitely, with no cure or vaccine on the horizon life must go on or there won’t be anything to go back to.
The virus is going nowhere and we need to learn to live alongside it.