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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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hmmm

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Thats the huge issue. Government should NOT act on health advice alone. This is some sort of a horrible dream isnt it?

Is our government now only able to pursue 1 agenda? Whats the point of employing all those economists, accountants and finance professionals in the government buildings if you will act on health advice only?

The original poster was suggesting there was no risk in a barbers, I was making the point that there was. There's risk in everything which involves interacting with other people.

As I understand it from reports, NPHET have given government their assessment of the risks, but made no real recommendations as to when things should be reopened. It's a political decision as to how fast things should reopen, and the government have decided to reopen the less dangerous/uncertain things first (mostly things that are outdoors in phase 1).

That's a sensible approach. If you open the possibly more dangerous things first then you run the risk of not being able to open anything at all if the infected numbers shoot up.

boardise

the kelt wrote: »

I’ve seen this brought up a few times but now does the fact other countries have had issues with nursing homes somehow negate our issues?

As if it’s alright sure other countries made mistakes too?? I’ve seen France and Sweden being mentioned as other countries with nursing home issues yet they still seem to be progressing faster than ourselves.

Are there other countries with nursing home issues being hampered like ourselves in easing restrictions? Genuine question as I don’t know?

The fact that so many countries/states registered high numbers of deaths in nursing/care homes surely provides necessary context for any discussion of the issue. Also -some posters casually refer to 'mistakes' being made but there's no clear indication or evidence that this was the case . That's no more than a facile assumption.

rob316

And the pressure begins, the vintners want to reopen 6 weeks earlier.

rob316

And the pressure begins, the vintners want to reopen 6 weeks earlier.

normanoffside

KrustyUCC wrote: »

I think travel in that instance is a bit misleading

I think the exercise has just expanded from 2 to 5km from tomorrow

I don't think you can travel 5km for exercise to a beach etc in your car

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/0501/1136173-gaa-and-soccer-projected-to-resume-in-july/

Golf courses are to reopen on 18th May.

Are people really supposed to walk to them?

There's blind following of rules and then there's common sense, if people are allowed to drive 5km and they are allowed to exercise 5km from home, can both not be combined?

road_high

Stark wrote: »

I had respect for them until that tweet where they were taking smug pleasure in turning some poor old man home without his parcel after catching him out on the post office being more than 2km away.

Saw that up on Facebook too....revelling in the nonsense. They might not be so smug with the paycut coming their way though....

Personal accounts of them checking car boot for shopping (being delivered to elderly parents in rural area)...also turning cars about from a small town that wanted to go shopping in bigger, cheaper stores for groceries in neighbouring large town. I'll never respect that kind of inanely petty carry on. Appreciate many think it's wonderful though

Micky 32

easypazz wrote: »

1303/21506 = ~6%

That’s 21506 confirmed cases. There’s a lot more out there that has/had it and never got tested. That’s not a true mortality %

KrustyUCC

normanoffside wrote: »

Yeah from 2:10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtYYCEg8LAE

I think travel in that instance is a bit misleading

I think the exercise has just expanded from 2 to 5km from tomorrow

I don't think you can travel 5km for exercise to a beach etc in your car

Stark

road_high wrote: »

And they might get back to real instead of hassling innocent private citizens? We live in hope- though they seem to be led by an unyielding authoritarian dish cloth. Very little respect for AGS after this, not sure how others feel. I was a big supporter hitherto

I had respect for them until that tweet where they were taking smug pleasure in turning some poor old man home without his parcel after catching him out on the post office being more than 2km away.

road_high

easypazz wrote: »

Tomorrow hopefully, I expect a lot more traffic on the road, too much for the Guards to check every car, so the checkpoints will be scaled back.

And they might get back to real policing instead of hassling innocent private citizens? We live in hope- though they seem to be led by an unyielding authoritarian dish cloth. Today on their social media they've been busy flying Donegal taking pictures....Very little respect for AGS after this, not sure how others feel. I was a big supporter hitherto

Stark

JL555 wrote: »

He also went on to talk about masks and said the jury is still out on masks,,, what jury is he on about? the Eurovision jury? He also said if people are going to wear masks that he would prefer them to coverings rather than masks, to keep those for the HSE, he needs to be careful about those type of comments also, because the lockdown psychos will become the mask police and if they see people wearing PPE masks in public, the snide comments will be sickening.

As far as I know, surgical masks (the cheap disposable kind that don't do much for stopping a healthy wearer from getting infected but are good at stopping infected wearers from infecting other people) are fairly plentiful but the respirator masks (the more expensive kind that are effective at preventing the wearer from infection) are not. Wouldn't trust the lockdown psychos to know the difference so yeah, expect snide comments.

On the jury still out issue, IMO they're getting hung up on the issue of the surgical masks not being effective at preventing a healthy wearer from being infected but the point should be that if you have widespread usage at a population level, then transmission from infected people wearing them should be reduced. At the moment, there's no point in me wearing one to the shops and being the only one as I'm not getting that population level benefit. But once they make it a mandate/strong recommendation, I will definitely be partaking.

normanoffside

hmmm wrote: »

If he said that (proof?) he's wrong. The 5k limit is for exercise from your home. You are not supposed to be driving to a location 5k away, and I expect this is how the guards will enforce it.

Until the 4th phase, we are told to avoid unnecessary journeys (car journeys).

You have always been able to drive outside the 2k/5k if you have good reason e.g. food shopping, looking after elderly.

Yeah from 2:10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtYYCEg8LAE

easypazz

road_high wrote: »

Hopefully this nonsensical nanny state rubbish falls flat on its arse soon. Insanity compared to the continent where common sense rains supreme.

Tomorrow hopefully, I expect a lot more traffic on the road, too much for the Guards to check every car, so the checkpoints will be scaled back.

Ginger n Lemon

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

This is completely distorted. There are many times that many people who have actually had corona virus. Cillian De Gascun said there is a possibility it could be between 5% and 30% of the population. So even if you took the lower 5% it works out at 0.65% of cases.
There is not an expert in the world willing to state a percentage fatality rate and until we have the antibody test to see who has or hasn't had this thing we wont be able to predict one.

21% of 8.4m New york city population had coronavirus according to antibodies testing, confirmed by official NYC gov source. Mortality worked out at 0.55%.

Ginger n Lemon

hmmm wrote: »

If the barber was outside, neither of you was speaking, neither of you was symptomatic, both of you wearing respirator masks, and cutting your hair with some sort of tree lopper from a few metres away, it's probably 100% safe. Anything else increases the risk of the virus being transmitted and the government will be acting on health advice.

Thats the huge issue. Government should NOT act on health advice alone. This is some sort of a horrible dream isnt it?

Is our government now only able to pursue 1 agenda? Whats the point of employing all those economists, accountants and finance professionals in the government buildings if you will act on health advice only?

All of this reminds me of a south park episode where Canadian government wanted more internet money, and they were feeding people absolute nonsense throughout the episode and got found out and sent packing at the end of the episode.

The HorsesMouth

Squeeonline wrote: »

I know I'm way late, but the case fatality rate is around 6%. This means out of 100 people confirmed diagnosed with Corona, 6 will die.

Do you want to name those 6 people? Or do there have to be more for you to care? Fancy picking out some sick/elderly members of your family you'd like to sacrifice to the cause?

The rate is "low" (relative to Italy, Spain etc) BECAUSE of the restrictions. We know this because the UK is similar, and has far more death as they reacted later.

This is completely distorted. There are many times that many people who have actually had corona virus. Cillian De Gascun said there is a possibility it could be between 5% and 30% of the population. So even if you took the lower 5% it works out at 0.65% of cases.
There is not an expert in the world willing to state a percentage fatality rate and until we have the antibody test to see who has or hasn't had this thing we wont be able to predict one.

fly_agaric

seamusk84 wrote: »

Sorry, it's just there is so much confusing information out there. Appreciate the straight answers here

Maybe go to the horse's mouth (not to extent of reading legislation etc, just the pages on gov.ie about it). They seem fairly clear to me but suppose it is a lot to wrap ones head around given its all so weird + surreal & very far outside our normal experiences (even after a good few weeks of it).
It can get a bit garbled filtered through different journalists, news outlets, heard 3rd hand off other people etc (though have found RTE website okay).

edit: How odd. speak of the devil! :pac:

road_high

KrustyUCC wrote: »

I think so as golf will still be classed as non essential

It's July before you can travel for non essential reasons

Painfully slow

Other countries will have been able to travel internally for 2 months at that stage

Hopefully this nonsensical nanny state rubbish falls flat on its arse soon. Insanity compared to the continent where common sense rains supreme.

[Deleted User]

seamusk84 wrote: »

Still don't get it.

Tomorrow can I drive to a non essential shop in my 5km radius? Lets say I want to go to pick up food in the Italian I like but which is further away from a closer one I don't like.

IE: Can I make unnecessary car journeys within a 5km radius of my gaf? What do I say to the Garda if I get stopped. Can I say: I'm out for a drive but am within a 5km radius of my house so jog on.

You see, this is the problem with these updates to the restrictions, they are obviously open to interpretation by anyone in authority and when people hear the likes of Varadkar say something, he should be believed (when I typed that it was with a huge pinch of salt..lol) I watched the interview with Varadkar on rte player and not long into it he clearly said: ' .. after Tuesday,.. you can go for walk, a drive or a cycle with others in your household, not to engage with other people...' Hi did not say that the 5km was for exercise only Where as a Garda might stop you and say it's an unnecessary journey, so they really need to get their stories straight.
He also went on to talk about masks and said the jury is still out on masks,,, what jury is he on about? the Eurovision jury? He also said if people are going to wear masks that he would prefer them to coverings rather than masks, to keep those for the HSE, he needs to be careful about those type of comments also, because the lockdown psychos will become the mask police and if they see people wearing PPE masks in public, the snide comments will be sickening.

Stark

Defintely not. There's ambiguity at the moment as they're trying to stop parks/beaches from becoming too congested so closing car parks and turning people away who drive there. But in one of the early phases, they specifically say car parks will reopen for people driving to recreation.

conor2469

normanoffside wrote: »

Actually Leo specifically said you can drive 5 km to a place where you can get exercise

I think the roadmap document needs to be modified to clarify this. I have seen this asked a lot and it is not clarified in the version of the roadmap document I am reading (Unless I have an older draft?). This is going to be even more confusing when the restriction increases to 20km and golf clubs re-open.
Are golfers going to be expected to trek 20km with their golf bag on their back? :pac: Or are only golfers who live next to their club going to be able to avail of the amenity?

Jinglejangle69

KrustyUCC wrote: »

I think so as golf will still be classed as non essential

It's July before you can travel for non essential reasons

Painfully slow

Other countries will have been able to travel internally for 2 months at that stage

How can you or anyone be so sure of that?

Noone can see 2 months ahead with this virus yet you think you know it all

KrustyUCC

easypazz wrote: »

So if they are opening golf clubs do you need to walk the 5kM with your clubs?

I think so as golf will still be classed as non essential

It's July before you can travel for non essential reasons

Painfully slow

Other countries will have been able to travel internally for 2 months at that stage

Penfailed

easypazz wrote: »

1303/21506 = ~6%

Ah! I reread the previous post. So circa 6% of people actually diagnosed with C-19 die. This doesn't take into account all those that weren't tested or those that are asymptomatic and don't even know if they've had it. More testing required then so.

KrustyUCC

easypazz wrote: »

So if they are opening golf clubs do you need to walk the 5kM with your clubs?

SNNUS

Squeeonline wrote: »

I know I'm way late, but the case fatality rate is around 6%. This means out of 100 people confirmed diagnosed with Corona, 6 will die.

Do you want to name those 6 people? Or do there have to be more for you to care? Fancy picking out some sick/elderly members of your family you'd like to sacrifice to the cause?

The rate is "low" (relative to Italy, Spain etc) BECAUSE of the restrictions. We know this because the UK is similar, and has far more death as they reacted later.

85% of all statistics are made up.

conor2469

hmmm wrote: »

The Guards can't have checkpoints everywhere. If you're on foot with a bunch of kids in tow, they can have a reasonable assumption you're not going too far. A bunch of kids in the back of a car, and there's no way to be sure you really are going "just up the road".

But in that case, whats to stop the gardai assuming that everyone is lying when they roll up to a checkpoint/

Garda: Where are you going?

Me: Shopping.

Garda: Prove it

Me:..... *Shows them empty shopping bags*?

Surely there has to be a certain amount of trust in the community? Assuming that someone travelling in a car with children is breaking restrictions until they somehow prove otherwise?

Cork Boy 53

NIMAN wrote: »

Here's a question I'd like to see answered.

Would I be allowed to drive to an Aldi store say 20km away, if there is a supervalu 5km away?

Legally no you wouldn`t be allowed to do that under the current restrictions.

easypazz

Penfailed wrote: »

6%?! Really? That's the highest percentage I've heard yet! Worrying, if true.

1303/21506 = ~6%

Penfailed

mjsc1970 wrote: »

At the moment can you drive to a beach or park and park there and exercise in the park or beach? Is that currently allowed to drive there if within 2km?

No.