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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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FintanMcluskey

DubInMeath wrote: »

You might want to recheck your facts on that, non essential businesses were closed by order and travel limited to medical and food shopping, an allowance for walking the dog also.

Some regular posters on here are ex pats living over there and have been complaining about the lockdown and comparing the Spanish police to fascists due to their handling of the lockdown.

You might want to recheck my argument. They restarted construction and manufacturing over 3 weeks ago. If you worked in those industries you went to work. The rest of your post is correct, I never suggested otherwise

Ginger n Lemon

I think that the plan introduced is extremely poor, job destroying and lacks a lot of common sense. To think that you can get a pint in a pub in Italy 6 weeks before we here will open barber shop is insane, given that both countries have reached the peak & flattened the curve.

To think that Denmark that has flattened the curve and opened barber shops on 21 of April and we here will walk around like cave people until 20th of July is also baffling. 3 months apart, 3!, 12 weeks!

I really do not understand whats the risk of going to barbers if person cutting your hair wears a mask and fresh pair of single use gloves? Can someone please enlighten me?

FintanMcluskey

kippy wrote: »

I've wasted enough of my Sunday engaging with you.

Im sorry for wasting your Sunday, could you possibly find the time to send me a link to the schemes for boosting economic liquidity in Ireland?

FintanMcluskey

LiquidZeb wrote: »

I know having family that want to visit you must be like science fiction to you.

This made me laugh more than it should

theballz

Just back from a run, I was running down by the canal in Dublin. Safe to say social distancing is not being practised this weekend, people are drinking cans in the sun and BUNCHES of people together.

Not a single Garda to be seen.

Was quite disappointing.

One thing that was fairly evident was that many of these people look to be foreign national students. A lot of South American’s (which isn’t a surprise) they love the sun and when we get it here they tend to make the most of it.

Disappointing either way.

kippy

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Im sorry for wasting your Sunday, could you possibly find the time to send me a link to the schemes for boosting economic liquidity in Ireland?

You have no understanding of economics. So I deem it a pointless conversation with no endpoint

FintanMcluskey

kippy wrote: »

You have no understanding of economics. So I deem it a pointless conversation with no endpoint

I dont have an understanding absolutely none.
So I would appriciate some information on the schemes you are referring to?

Gynoid

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

This made me laugh more than it should

Maybe because it was nasty and low, and you find that kind of remark funny..?

iamwhoiam

theballz wrote: »

Just back from a run, I was running down by the canal in Dublin. Safe to say social distancing is not being practised this weekend, people are drinking cans in the sun and BUNCHES of people together.

Not a single Garda to be seen.

Was quite disappointing.

One thing that was fairly evident was that many of these people look to be foreign national students. A lot of South American’s (which isn’t a surprise) they love the sun and when we get it here they tend to make the most of it.

Disappointing either way.

An ICU consultant said in an interview last week that the vast majority of the Covid patients in the Mater were Roma and Brazalian . Make of that what you will

Gael23

robbiezero wrote: »

It seems like the Governement havent copped how big an issue this is for people.
Like in a couple of weeks you can work all day on a building site with colleagues but cant sit in a garden with your elderly parents for 12 weeks.
I have no problem with leo using notes on the late late, fair play for not winging it or bull****ting, but it was instructive that it was this question that he did not know the answers.
I think a very large cohort of people will start ignoring this rule very soon and in an ad hoc fashion instead of having clear guidelines on how it could safely be done (with tiny risk)

My grandparents live 27km away just across the border in the next county. Will be seeing them from 8 June. That rule won’t wan with most people

KrustyUCC

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/coronavirus/whos-in-charge-cracks-appearing-as-tensions-mount-over-lockdown-exit-strategy/ar-BB13wvJx?ocid=sf2

Interesting article

NPHET wanted 4 weeks in between phases lol

Ours is one of the slowest plans in Europe as it is with 3 weeks inbetween phases

kippy

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I dont have an understanding absolutely none.
So I would appriciate some information on the schemes you are referring to?

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/economics.asp
It's a good starting point.

Thelonious Monk

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

They were always allowed out to work. The urban areas limited movement for leisure

My folks in Spain got outside for the first time in 7 weeks yesterday. Before that only one at at time could go to supermarket or pharmacy. It was all areas not just urban.

FintanMcluskey

KrustyUCC wrote: »

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/coronavirus/whos-in-charge-cracks-appearing-as-tensions-mount-over-lockdown-exit-strategy/ar-BB13wvJx?ocid=sf2

Interesting article

NPHET wanted 4 weeks in between phases lol

Ours is one of the slowest plans in Europe as it is with 3 weeks inbetween phases

I just can't fathom how some posters are in support of what the plan is for the next few months.
It is the needless destruction of the economy and increase of the national debt to levels that will require decades of restricted public spending.
As another poster said, we can get a hair cut 6 weeks after Italy have pubs and restaurants open, bizzare

FintanMcluskey

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

My folks in Spain got outside for the first time in 7 weeks yesterday. Before that only one at at time could go to supermarket or pharmacy. It was all areas not just urban.

Yeah kinda what I had said. Only outdoors for work

SusieBlue

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Has that happened? Has anyone been sneering or unkind to a bereaved person visiting a grave? If so that's terrible. That person needs to be offered support and encouragement to stick with the measures in place. The last thing that person needs is unkindness, but they also don't need illness.

If people are lonely we could all volunteer to ring someone up for a talk or we could all start a chat server to allow people desperate for some distraction have a new outlet and make a new friend.

I think the reason why one groups difficulties surrounding the isolation is less well received is because only one group proposes an action that may cost lives and perpetuate a lockdown with huge personal,social and economic consequences.
Traveling more than the proposed restrictions risks carrying disease to areas not badly affected.

It's disinegenuous to compare the needs of both groups though because they are not the same, we cannot accept death because people are lonely etc because there are alternatives for those people, even if it is baring down a few extra weeks on it. Ultimately we share one primary need and it is not to die ourselves or not to be conforted with the grief of losing a loved one in dire circumstances without a hand to hold afterwards in our mourning or a funeral to attend. If you find yourself unfortunate enough to see what that looks like you will know it's a very different vista from being depressed , which is very difficult too. 2 weeks ago someone I know died. There was no funeral, no hugs for the family, no being able to reach out a hand to squeeze in place of the choked words that could never touch the heartbreak felt. There was just standing across a road watching a tearful goodbye to the coffin of a young person. Now there is a quiet house there with no visitors due to the vulnerability of a family member. If this virus spreads that will be the reality for many families, at the sharp end of this there is a tremendous, life long burden for some to carry. If we all act now to contain it , we might avoid it, we might be able to make more exceptions to reach to those most in need. We are not just preventing death, it is preventing depression and mental illness too by not traumatising people for life by losing loved ones in an awful way or traumatising medical staff who are risking themselves to treat the illness.

Scroll back a few pages and you will find what I’m talking about.
A single mother suffering with depression was called an attention seeking selfish liar several times over.
This woman is a frontline worker and hasn’t even broken any restrictions, she simply opened up about having a hard time at the moment and that was the response she was met with.
A person visiting their mothers grave was as good as called a murderer.
Someone else said that anyone who dares break any minor rule was ‘spitting on the vulnerable‘ and wanting to kill off their grandparents and wipe out the elderly.
Honestly, scroll back and I promise you, you’ll find many nasty sniping posts scoffing at the legitimate concerns and worries of those who have been indirectly effected by covid-19.

The needs of both groups actually are the same because in the end, the prolonged lockdown and crashing of the economy will end up claiming as many lives as covid-19, if not more. It absolutely will result in lives being lost and futures taken away.
For these people there is no hope, there is no alternative. Their jobs are gone, they could lose their homes, they don’t know how they will pay their bills or feed their children. They are suffering with depression and anxiety and these conditions are being exacerbated by the isolation. There is no escape.

To suggest it’s fair to offer these people’s lives and futures up as sacrifice is completely unfair and short sighted. They matter just as much as those who have been afflicted with covid, or who have lost their lives from it.
We are not preventing death, we aren’t preventing anything actually. We are suppressing and delaying the inevitable consequences we will all face when we open things back up, regardless of when that happens.
Prolonged lockdown won’t make the virus go away. It will cause a whole new set of problems though, problems that can’t be cured with a vaccine.

We’re either ‘all in this together’ to ‘save lives’ or we’re not.

FintanMcluskey

kippy wrote: »

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/economics.asp
It's a good starting point.

Thanks but I asked for the economic schemes implemented to counteract the 1m plus jobs lost here since the restrictions began?
You said schemes were introduced that would boost the economy other than the Covid payment, what are they?
The Covid payment is only increasing the national debt

kippy

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Thanks but I asked for the economic schemes implemented to counteract the 1m plus jobs lost here since the restrictions began?
You said schemes were introduced that would boost the economy other than the Covid payment, what are they?
The Covid payment is only increasing the national debt

There's no point discussion economics with someone who doesn't understand economics even on a basic level.

Also, might be worth not misrepresenting what either of us have said

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Im struggling to understand

It certainly appears that way alright.

Thelonious Monk

I never saw the seafront so packed as it was today (it's 1.8km from my house!). So many bicycles out too, it's great to see that.
The fact that people aren't at some retail park buying crap they probably don't need means they get out and do something healthy instead. I hope it keeps up.

[Deleted User]

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

You might want to recheck my argument. They restarted construction and manufacturing over 3 weeks ago. If you worked in those industries you went to work. The rest of your post is correct, I never suggested otherwise

Actually it's not what you said at all, both your statements regarding work and exercise were factually incorrect.

FintanMcluskey

kippy wrote: »

There's no point discussion economics with someone who doesn't understand economics even on a basic level.

My lack of understanding does not prevent you from referencing your argument. What are the schemes implemented for economic revival aside from the Covid payment?
Ill leave it when you post what they are?

FintanMcluskey

DubInMeath wrote: »

Actually it's not what you said at all, both your statements regarding work and exercise were factually incorrect.

When I said you were allowed work in construction and manufacturing for the last 3 weeks but not allowed out for leisure purposes

ZX7R

KrustyUCC wrote: »

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/coronavirus/whos-in-charge-cracks-appearing-as-tensions-mount-over-lockdown-exit-strategy/ar-BB13wvJx?ocid=sf2

Interesting article

NPHET wanted 4 weeks in between phases lol

Ours is one of the slowest plans in Europe as it is with 3 weeks inbetween phases

Green party just announced they are entering into official talks to form a new government.
Sighting the covid-19 crisis as the most important factor

theballz

iamwhoiam wrote: »

An ICU consultant said in an interview last week that the vast majority of the Covid patients in the Mater were Roma and Brazalian . Make of that what you will

Have you a link to this article?

giveitholly

If we get fine weather in June I reckon the amount of bbqs and house parties that go on will be massive,there won't be much social distancing at these so I can't see the pub owners being too happy having to stay closed

kippy

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

My lack of understanding does not prevent you from referencing your argument. What are the schemes implemented for economic revival aside from the Covid payment?
Ill leave it when you post what they are?

You've said that there's been no consideration for the economy in all of this.
There has. Any state payment scheme is an economic intervention, as were the six billion of measures mentioned yesterday. As are any of the measures the state has asked the banks to assist with, or insurance companies, or revenue...If you don't know what an economy is or accept that the actions of the government in introducing payment schemes is one part of an economy then you're not going to deviate from your opinion that there's been no consideration for the economy.
That doesn't make you right, just not informed.

FintanMcluskey

giveitholly wrote: »

If we get fine weather in June I reckon the amount of bbqs and house parties that go on will be massive,there won't be much social distancing at these so I can't see the pub owners being too happy having to stay closed

Considering Italy will open the pub's on June 1st the publicans have every right to feel aggrieved having to wait 2.5 months longer

KrustyUCC

Thelonious Monk

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Considering Italy will open the pub's on June 1st the publicans have every right to feel aggrieved having to wait 2.5 months longer

In fairness our packed pubs full of drunks are a different story to having a beer on a plaza in the warm Italian summer, it's apples and oranges