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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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drunkmonkey

easypazz wrote: »

What they have done is set out a fairly worst case scenario and hope to announce good news accelerations as the weeks pass.

Biggest issue I see is the UK situation and the border.

I think it's best case scenario, what will have changed by August, tempature will be dropping and the virus will be getting more active.

kippy

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I think it's best case scenario, what will have changed by August, tempature will be dropping and the virus will be getting more active.

Temperature has very little to do with the virus lifespan. It doesn't get 'more active' unless it's hosts do.
All based on currently available data.

drunkmonkey

kippy wrote: »

Temperature has very little to do with the virus lifespan. It doesn't get 'more active' unless it's hosts do.

And what are the hosts about to do?

na1

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

Absolutely crazy. The nursing homes are where the majority of this virus is now.
I spoke to a mate in canada last night. Hasn't stopped working, construction. They are now easing restrictions.
Look at the state of us. 5km , 10km leo can do one. I'm going where I want, but avoiding contact with others. If you don't trust the people, they won't trust you.

I think Leo-s job is not an essential one, so can we catch & prosecute him when he's 5+ km from home?

KindOfIrish

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

Neighbours have the whole lot over today. Grandkids, and children. Unreal. Can't believe that.

Thanks God, there are normal people left in this country.

kippy

kippy wrote: »

Temperature has very little to do with the virus lifespan. It doesn't get 'more active' unless it's hosts do.
All based on currently available data.

Currently it's hosts and potential hosts in this country are far less active. And that's not a function of temperature.

na1

drunkmonkey wrote: »

78 more days, tbh there's going to be immense pressure to lift that rule. No way is the entire country going to be paralyzed until then.
Maybe stay within your own province until then would be a better plan.

I have some other idea: pay & get the covid express test results with you (don't know how much it costs TBH), then with this result in hands you should be allowed to travel across country for 2-3 days
If you want more travelling: do a new test

martingriff

easypazz wrote: »

What they have done is set out a fairly worst case scenario and hope to announce good news accelerations as the weeks pass.

Biggest issue I see is the UK situation and the border.

I agree with this phase 1 will be as it is but when numbers are under a certain level things will be moved around in certain areas.

FintanMcluskey

martingriff wrote: »

I agree with this phase 1 will be as it is but when numbers are under a certain level things will be moved around in certain areas.

What numbers under what level?
It seems like they want eternal life and to turn Ireland into tír na nÓg before any consideration of the economic carnage will be open for debate?

kippy

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

What numbers under what level?
It seems like they want eternal life and to turn Ireland into tír na nÓg before any consideration of the economic carnage will be open for debate?

If there's no consideration for the economy surely there was no reason to publish any plan at all......
Or borrow money to support the current situation...or do a multitude of things that are being done with the economy in mind.

We have only so much control of the economy.

FintanMcluskey

kippy wrote: »

If there's no consideration for the economy surely there was no reason to publish any plan at all......

What plan, its essentially as is until the 18th of May leaving Ireland gripped in the most restrictive economic policy in Europe? A full 6 weeks behind the economic revival seen in Spain and the continent.
They allowed no debate and ignored the business minister's pleading for less restrictive strategy.
And to complete the fiasco Leo sat on the national broadcaster's couch and stumbled his way through a vague outline of this so called plan while reading a crumpled up piece of paper like a scene from Anchorman

FintanMcluskey

kippy wrote: »

We have only so much control of the economy.

We have none because we handed the control over to a self important CMO

kippy

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

What plan, its essentially as is until the 18th of May leaving Ireland gripped in the most restrictive economic policy in Europe? A full 6 weeks behind the economic revival seen in Spain and the continent.
Seen as they allowed no debate and ignored the business minister's pleading for less restrictive strategy.
And to complete the fiasco Leo sat on the national broadcaster's couch and stumbled his way through a vague outline of this so called plan while reading a crumpled up piece of paper like a scene from Anchorman

Can you address the post and the logic within rather than ranting?
What economic revival in Spain?
Delusional stuff.

kippy

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

We have none because we handed the control over to a self important CMO

Again, if we have none and the economy isn't being considered at all why introduce any form of payment to people six weeks or so ago? Surely that is an example of the economy being considered? Amongst a plethora of other measures.

FintanMcluskey

kippy wrote: »

What economic revival in Spain?
Delusional stuff.

You keep ignoring the fact that Spain has had construction and manufacturing back to work nearly 4 weeks.Im sure you will post back something about tighter restrictions in Spain or something unrelated

kippy

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

You keep ignoring the fact that Spain has had construction and manufacturing back to work nearly 4 weeks.Im sure you will post back something about tighter restrictions in Spain or something unrelated

Construction is not the economy nor do we have the overall most restrictive set of policies in all of Europe
Any again, why setup all the payment supports for the populace of the economy is not being considered?

FintanMcluskey

kippy wrote: »

Construction is not the economy.

Ah ok. I know what I'm dealing with now at least

kippy

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ah ok. I know what I'm dealing with now at least

Answer the questions posed to you and stop avoiding what's in front of your face.

Tell me how

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

What plan, its essentially as is until the 18th of May leaving Ireland gripped in the most restrictive economic policy in Europe? A full 6 weeks behind the economic revival seen in Spain and the continent.
They allowed no debate and ignored the business minister's pleading for less restrictive strategy.
And to complete the fiasco Leo sat on the national broadcaster's couch and stumbled his way through a vague outline of this so called plan while reading a crumpled up piece of paper like a scene from Anchorman

I thought Spain only let people out to exercise for the first time yesterday?

Hard to see how their economy has been functioning with 6 weeks if they were this constrained.

FintanMcluskey

kippy wrote: »

Answer the questions posed to you and stop avoiding what's in front of your face.

Do you not understand how payment supports are not an economic consideration? Its a temporary measure to ensure people don't starve, which is haemorrhaging funds from the exchequer and it should be means tested to those in receipt of it.

FintanMcluskey

Tell me how wrote: »

I thought Spain only let people out to exercise for the first time yesterday?

Hard to see how their economy has been functioning with 6 weeks if they were this constrained.

They were always allowed out to work. The urban areas limited movement for leisure

kippy

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Do you not understand how payment supports are not an economic consideration? Its a temporary measure to ensure people don't starve, which is haemorrhaging funds from the exchequer and it should be means tested to those in receipt of it.

Of course they are an economic consideration.
There have been numerous schemes introduced and planned for that are very obviously part of an economic policy.
There are then so many unknowns it is extremely difficult to plan further..but we are not in isolation as an economy, we are reliant on so many other variables.

FintanMcluskey

kippy wrote: »

Of course they are an economic consideration.
There have been numerous schemes introduced and planned for that are very obviously part of an economic policy.
There are then so many unknowns it is extremely difficult to plan further..but we are not in isolation as an economy, we are reliant on so many other variables.

What are those schemes that have been introduced?
We are in isolation as an economy.
The road map published has us months behind the worst hit nations in Europe so Im struggling to understand how Ireland will not be in isolation?

LiquidZeb

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

Neighbours have the whole lot over today. Grandkids, and children. Unreal. Can't believe that.

I know having family that want to visit you must be like science fiction to you.

[Deleted User]

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

They were always allowed out to work. The urban areas limited movement for leisure

You might want to recheck your facts on that, non essential businesses were closed by order and travel limited to medical and food shopping, an allowance for walking the dog also.

Some regular posters on here are ex pats living over there and have been complaining about the lockdown and comparing the Spanish police to fascists due to their handling of the lockdown.

kippy

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

What are those schemes that have been introduced?
We are in isolation as an economy.
The road map published has us months behind the worst hit nations in Europe so Im struggling to understand how Ireland will not be in isolation?

Ara look. If you arent aware of what the schemes are, that's why you'd think no one in government was considering the economy.

Of course we are not an isolated economy. We rely on other economys to function for a lot of economic activity here. The fact that I have to point this out says it all really.

robbiezero

DebDynamite wrote: »

Yeah, that totally would’ve made more sense. My parents live in the next county, but outside the 20km limit. Even if I were to go and see them, I would still only go and sit with them in the garden whilst maintaining social distancing, because even though it might be allowed to go and visit them in their home, the risk is still there for me to pass the virus on to them. So having to wait until 20th July to sit in the garden with my parents who live in the next county is absolutely ridiculous

It seems like the Governement havent copped how big an issue this is for people.
Like in a couple of weeks you can work all day on a building site with colleagues but cant sit in a garden with your elderly parents for 12 weeks.
I have no problem with leo using notes on the late late, fair play for not winging it or bull****ting, but it was instructive that it was this question that he did not know the answers.
I think a very large cohort of people will start ignoring this rule very soon and in an ad hoc fashion instead of having clear guidelines on how it could safely be done (with tiny risk)

FintanMcluskey

kippy wrote: »

Ara look. If you arent aware of what the schemes are, that's why you'd think no one in government was considering the economy.

Of course we are not an isolated economy. We rely on other economys to function for a lot of economic activity here. The fact that I have to point this out says it all really.

What are the economic schemes? Save mortgage payment deferrals?

_Whimsical_

SusieBlue wrote: »

This thread seems have a lot of posters with massive amounts of empathy, support and compassion for those who have contracted covid-19. They seem like real stand up caring citizens, pillar of the community types.
Which is great, obviously.

So why do their sympathetic tendencies & concern seem to completely evaporate when say, for example, a bereaved person living alone says they are going to break the 2km to go for a walk in a forest, or someone else says they are breaking it to visit their mothers grave?
Or someone says they have depression and are struggling being at home alone with a small child?

..........
Why are one group more important than another, and why is their suffering more relevant or worthy of concern?
Surely, if we’re all interested in ‘saving lives’, no life is more important than the next?
And surely the lives of the people whose futures will be taken away by the economy crashing, are just as important and worthy?

It’s highly hypocritical that some are bleating on about saving lives while showing zero consideration to those who are suffering under current restrictions.
Whether that be financially, physically or from the isolation itself.
We all matter and we all count.
If some could remember that before accusing others of faking depression, being selfish, and practically calling them murderers for daring to go more than 2km from their homes, it would make for a much fairer discussion.

Has that happened? Has anyone been sneering or unkind to a bereaved person visiting a grave? If so that's terrible. That person needs to be offered support and encouragement to stick with the measures in place. The last thing that person needs is unkindness, but they also don't need illness.

If people are lonely we could all volunteer to ring someone up for a talk or we could all start a chat server to allow people desperate for some distraction have a new outlet and make a new friend.

I think the reason why one groups difficulties surrounding the isolation is less well received is because only one group proposes an action that may cost lives and perpetuate a lockdown with huge personal,social and economic consequences.
Traveling more than the proposed restrictions risks carrying disease to areas not badly affected.

It's disinegenuous to compare the needs of both groups though because they are not the same, we cannot accept death because people are lonely etc because there are alternatives for those people, even if it is baring down a few extra weeks on it. Ultimately we share one primary need and it is not to die ourselves or not to be conforted with the grief of losing a loved one in dire circumstances without a hand to hold afterwards in our mourning or a funeral to attend. If you find yourself unfortunate enough to see what that looks like you will know it's a very different vista from being depressed , which is very difficult too. 2 weeks ago someone I know died. There was no funeral, no hugs for the family, no being able to reach out a hand to squeeze in place of the choked words that could never touch the heartbreak felt. There was just standing across a road watching a tearful goodbye to the coffin of a young person. Now there is a quiet house there with no visitors due to the vulnerability of a family member. If this virus spreads that will be the reality for many families, at the sharp end of this there is a tremendous, life long burden for some to carry. If we all act now to contain it , we might avoid it, we might be able to make more exceptions to reach to those most in need. We are not just preventing death, it is preventing depression and mental illness too by not traumatising people for life by losing loved ones in an awful way or traumatising medical staff who are risking themselves to treat the illness.

kippy

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

What are the economic schemes? Save mortgage payment deferrals?

I've wasted enough of my Sunday engaging with you.