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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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Jim Gazebo

Neighbours have the whole lot over today. Grandkids, and children. Unreal. Can't believe that.

Gods Gift

lord quackinton wrote: »

i am confused by the 5km radius thingy.
the 5km radius circle has a circumference of 2*pie*5 = 31km???
this means you go 31km from your home in a straight line from tuesday as long as you go back the same way???
and where does radii and the diameter factor in?? and how many circles are there??
please help, i think i might go outside the safe zone and end up in mountjoy and i am way too good looking for that.

but let me very clear, everybody must follow the strict government lockdown policies and anyone who breaks them needs to be dealt with harshly by the law. i am talking trial by social media, lose their job, criminal record, children taken into care, and lastly public flogging.
its time to get tough on yahoos who are destroying this lovely holiday we are all having.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Pie.

Gynoid

lord quackinton wrote: »

i am confused by the 5km radius thingy.
the 5km radius circle has a circumference of 2*pie*5 = 31km???
this means you go 31km from your home in a straight line from tuesday as long as you go back the same way???
and where does radii and the diameter factor in?? and how many circles are there??
please help, i think i might go outside the safe zone and end up in mountjoy and i am way too good looking for that.

but let me very clear, everybody must follow the strict government lockdown policies and anyone who breaks them needs to be dealt with harshly by the law. i am talking trial by social media, lose their job, criminal record, children taken into care, and lastly public flogging.
its time to get tough on yahoos who are destroying this lovely holiday we are all having.

There's a lovely chap called Paddygreen to whom I should introduce you. He is probably unusually good looking also.

lord quackinton

i am confused by the 5km radius thingy.
the 5km radius circle has a circumference of 2*pie*5 = 31km???
this means you go 31km from your home in a straight line from tuesday as long as you go back the same way???
and where does radii and the diameter factor in?? and how many circles are there??
please help, i think i might go outside the safe zone and end up in mountjoy and i am way too good looking for that.

but let me very clear, everybody must follow the strict government lockdown policies and anyone who breaks them needs to be dealt with harshly by the law. i am talking trial by social media, lose their job, criminal record, children taken into care, and lastly public flogging.
its time to get tough on yahoos who are destroying this lovely holiday we are all having.

MarkY91

snotboogie wrote: »

Pubs who can't control social distancing won't be allowed to open. Look at the document, there are zero plans to lift social distancing

So no pubs will be opening so

growleaves

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Waves are the typical evolution.

The Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy in the US has the 3 scenarios outlined

Even JP Morgan has the scenario outline for it's clients

The outlook this year is not good and those who reopen too soon will have the more difficult time reimposing the measures to re-contain it.

We don't want to be in that nightmare.

But sure keep the fingers in your ears, lalalalala, you have your belief and not science.

My 'belief' is not that there won't be a second wave. Its that evoking the worst second wave of a pandemic in history - from a time when there had just been a world war, food shortages were rife, aspirin poisoning, and modern medicine was 100 years less advanced - is a form of yellow journalism, and deniable dishonesty.

That worst case scenarios from mid-March onwards did not materialise* should, with proper humility and self-reflection, be a factor now in the readiness to believe without evidence that the worst scenarios will play out.

* I mean independent of the lockdown, as many predictions were. 'Increases of roughly 30% every day. This is inevitable. This cannot be stopped.' - Leo Varadkar

easypazz

gozunda wrote: »

Truth be told the disease is out of control there

Nonsense as usual. Stockholm expects herd immunity in weeks, while here we conned into a middle of August plan and lectured about a second wave.

We think that most of those are immune from transmission in society, not the workplace. We could reach herd immunity in Stockholm within a matter of weeks.

gozunda wrote: »

and it looks like their economy is in tatters.

How is their economy in tatters? Unemployment expected to go from 7 to 10%

In Ireland it is 17% and rising, and projected to hit 22%

GDP in Sweden will take a short term hit but it is expected to bounce back in 2021.

gozunda wrote: »

With rights come responsibilities.

More tosh.

You have swallowed Holohans doctrine hook, line and sinker.

We have a right to challenge and question these peoples strategy. The government paniced into this strategy and like you are afraid to accept that there might have been a better way.

Don't be surprised if we are following the Sweden model by July.

I have moved on from observing the lockdown. I am capable of doing so while engaging in social distancing, being sensible and not risking spreading the disease. As are most people, but the government don't want to accept that.

lawrencesummers

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

No one can "beat" the virus - unless they want to be a hermit kingdom that does business with no one and allows no one in or out. You need a vaccine.

The sad thing about your post is you are about to learn the hard way (like others on this thread) how much things have not changed between 1918 and today!

Considering it’s not a sporting contest it’s fair to say that nobody can beat a virus, even a hermit kingdom, because by definition you can only beat something you are involved with.

What you can say For certain is that some countries have reacted better than others to this, some have learned from what’s gone before, and some are geographically, politically and culturally better able to deal with it, Of all the countries we have seen places like a Italy lacking any cohesive approach, and their decision making being reactive to infection instead of proactive to stop the spread. The UK being slow to realise the scale and being reactive. Countries like New Zealand (And others) have been proactive to not allow infection rates increase out of control.

Maybe a second wave does come, and infection numbers in some countries will undoubtedly increase after an initial peak and decrease, but you have no grasp on history if you think 1918 and today are anyway comparable from a public health and medical l owledge point of view.

gozunda

Discodog wrote: »

So the only people to question the government are Shinnerbots ? That must include most of the Cabinet who asked for more restrictions to be lifted.

The rubbish is being posted by people with the extreme view that there can only be one opinion.

Having comprehension difficulties there or just looking for a scrap?

You must have missed this bit.

But yes the shinner bot comment was in reference to your comment "Just as many are, rightly, asking here". The number of posts in that vein are truely eye opening. Certainly not all but there are plenty..

Odd since you actually highlighted it and as pointed out in my comment it largely relates to a bunch of stuff posted in thread.

And bizarrely took that last piece you highlighted out of context.

That 'opinion piece' I referred to was the hack piece from the Indo btw which I highlighted. Do keep up.

Dont worry discodog I dont think you would ever qualify as a shiner bot :pac:

There are plenty of opinions. Thats as should be. There is also a lot of **** stirring going on. I'd suggest putting on the old critical thinking glasses - they might help.

Gynoid

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Dan O Brien said over a month ago if the economy isn't kickstarted by summer then we are in a whole heap of trouble, I'd be more inclined to take his word on it rather than your guarantee.

An economist is an expert who will know tomorrow why the things he predicted yesterday didn't happen today. "
--Evan Esar

Yer all right, keep your economists. They are just givers of opinions, contradicting each other is how they justify their raison d'etre. I base my prediction on the observation of life over a good few decades - it goes on.
And in spite of all the hysteria spouted throughout those decades it generally has gotten a lot better for us people living in the comfortable parts of the globe. I do not expect us to become Haiti anytime soon.

helimachoptor

A guy from work has been down to Clare each weekend to visit his parents. They are over 70 so he brings shopping etc with him. Been stopped each time but no issues once he explains.

kippy

snowcat wrote: »

This lockdown is a bit of a joke really. I see people flouting the restrictions everyday and the Gardai dont seem to have no interest in enforcing it. You can do basically whatever you want as long as you have the right answer in case you meet a checkpoint.

Well. It's not really a lockdown for a start. There are only certain restrictions that are legally enforceable and indeed from a practical standpoint the authorities can only do so much. The reliance is on the general population to exercise some social responsibility.

kippy

DebDynamite wrote: »

No, you’re not allowed to travel further than 20km until 20th July (Phase 4)

Unless you have a valid reason. There are people who have been travelling larger distances on an irregular basis to ensure their cocooning relatives are managing.

Kermit.de.frog

lawrencesummers wrote: »

New Zealand has done an excellent job on it, i would go as far as to say they have beaten the virus, if this turn out to just be the opening round of three I have a lot of confidence they will be able to do the same. Same with South Korea.

Comparisons with 1918 are a pointless. We didn’t have anything like todays medicine back then, the world was still 20 years away from penicillin, Scarlet fever, TB and measles were rampant. Childbirth had staggering mortality rates. There were no GP’s no pharmacies, underlying conditions were all undiagnosed, Clean water was non existent, people lived in far more cramped and unhygienic conditions.

Over 100’years later The world is a far far far different place medically and socially.

No one can "beat" the virus - unless they want to be a hermit kingdom that does business with no one and allows no one in or out. You need a vaccine.

The sad thing about your post is you are about to learn the hard way (like others on this thread) how much things have not changed between 1918 and today!

gozunda

horse7 wrote: »

Does anyone else think that we have become a nanny state. We all know that we should wash our hand's ,limit our contact and wear face coverings especially in shopping areas,buses etc. Our hospitals are half empty for capacity to deal with the virus. We are being treated like children and told to stay in. There is no point in a driving limit. It's when you get out of the car you need to look after yourself. A lot of the older people are afraid to leave the house. Most people have the sense to allow more personal space if possible. With the present lockdown there will be a high price to pay, apart from job losses there will be all that goes with that, health issues, physical and mental and suicides. We need more testing and a CEO in the HSE with a medical background. We need a government that is not hiding behind the medical advisors. There are more issues at stake and any GP is going to err on the side of caution. Life in Seoul is carrying on as near normal, the trains are full, the kids are at school, you can eat in a restaurant. Everyone wears face coverings, young to old. Testing is still a priority also. We don't even have hardware stores or garden centres open, which was another mistake by the government. They move the goalpost as it suits, we've seen the R factor, the new cases, the daily death rate, it's become a nanny state. Opinions please.

No. That's it in a nutshell. With rights come responsibilities. And atm ours is to stay away from others as much as possible in order to keep down the rate of infection and keep it that our health services aren't been overrun. It is evident from this thread there is a very real hardman attitude of 'I know better' and "I'll fo what I fuking want'. For those unfortunately we need constant reminders of what this pandemic really is. If that means having to knock some heads together. So be it.

The rest is hyperbole imo.

Discodog

gozunda wrote: »

You mean you dont like what was written and pointing out that your comment does not stand up to scrutiny?

But yes the shinner bot comment was in reference to your comment "Just as many are, rightly, asking here". The number of posts in that vein are truely eye opening. Certainly not all but there are plenty..

And I'm not the only one to point that out btw. And no I did not suggest you were - however you did post about poiltical dissent- I replied to that. You also quoted a hack Indo opinion piece which talked about Swedens lack of restrictions and their economy. Truth be told the disease is out of control there and it looks like their economy is in tatters. Such opinion pieces are complete and utter bolloxology. I would place very little importance on any of that type of rubbish.

So the only people to question the government are Shinnerbots ? That must include most of the Cabinet who asked for more restrictions to be lifted.

The rubbish is being posted by people with the extreme view that there can only be one opinion.

BrianD3

Gynoid wrote: »

It won't. Let us meet here in a year or two and I can guarantee you the health service, guards and social welfare will be okay. Even if we have multiple lockdowns. Maybe in the same shyte state they were in before but we are not going to be a dystopia no matter how much people bleat about the economy. I guarantee it. Money is not what people think it is.

The same shyte state - LOL. The provision of public services was seriously affected by the last recession and things still aren't close to where they should be. The mantra of "doing more with less" has been continually rolled out in the last 10 years, in reality we're doing less with less and that can be easily demonstrated using various metrics. I work in the public service and see it first hand. Morale among staff continues to be poor. Vacant positions have remained unfilled for years. Staff regularly feel bad about the poor service that we provide to the general public through no fault of our own. The phrase "we don't have the resources for that" is used very frequently.

Also, as recently as January this year, just before Covid-19 blew up, I had the misfortune of dealing with our health service as a "customer" - my mother (dementia and other issues) was admitted to an acute hospital and discharged a week later without any supports from the HSE. During that week I witnessed chaos and several examples of suboptimal if not negligent care so it was actually a relief for her to be discharged. Applied for home help, we were told that we wouldn't get it but might as well apply as "it's like the lottery, someone has to win it" :rolleyes: Lots of excuses about no funding, 9000 people on waiting lists etc. Lots of suggestions (many of them useless/impractical) from the HSE as to what WE could do i.e. if we want anything we can organise it ourselves, now feck off.

And you think that this isn't going to get worse now?

DebDynamite

kippy wrote: »

And that's probably fine. So long as when they do see family they adhere to the absolute basics. Social distance, contact time, hand washing etc. This is going on at the moment and has been for the past number of weeks I certain situations. Older people cocooning and family members talking to them through a window at a distance.
These are all guidelines and recommendations. Only a few of the restrictions are legally enforced.

No, you’re not allowed to travel further than 20km until 20th July (Phase 4)

horse7

Does anyone else think that we have become a nanny state. We all know that we should wash our hand's ,limit our contact and wear face coverings especially in shopping areas,buses etc. Our hospitals are half empty for capacity to deal with the virus. We are being treated like children and told to stay in. There is no point in a driving limit. It's when you get out of the car you need to look after yourself. A lot of the older people are afraid to leave the house. Most people have the sense to allow more personal space if possible. With the present lockdown there will be a high price to pay, apart from job losses there will be all that goes with that, health issues, physical and mental and suicides. We need more testing and a CEO in the HSE with a medical background. We need a government that is not hiding behind the medical advisors. There are more issues at stake and any GP is going to err on the side of caution. Life in Seoul is carrying on as near normal, the trains are full, the kids are at school, you can eat in a restaurant. Everyone wears face coverings, young to old. Testing is still a priority also. We don't even have hardware stores or garden centres open, which was another mistake by the government. They move the goalpost as it suits, we've seen the R factor, the new cases, the daily death rate, it's become a nanny state. Opinions please.

kippy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

For a lot of people, the governments plan mean they can’t see family until 20th July. And even then, they keep pushing things back so it could be longer. Could be almost a half a year without seeing family.

Most just won’t obey that.

And that's probably fine. So long as when they do see family they adhere to the absolute basics. Social distance, contact time, hand washing etc. This is going on at the moment and has been for the past number of weeks I certain situations. Older people cocooning and family members talking to them through a window at a distance.
These are all guidelines and recommendations. Only a few of the restrictions are legally enforced.

C__MC

[Deleted User] wrote: »

For a lot of people, the governments plan mean they can’t see family until 20th July. And even then, they keep pushing things back so it could be longer. Could be almost a half a year without seeing family.

Most just won’t obey that.

Most people are going to travel and its only fair

I would imagine that the Gards could not police this after the 18th?

[Deleted User]

For a lot of people, the governments plan mean they can’t see family until 20th July. And even then, they keep pushing things back so it could be longer. Could be almost a half a year without seeing family.

Most just won’t obey that.

ChelseaRentBoy

Multipass wrote: »

That’s great. But here’s the thing about depression - real depression, not just feeling a bit down. You can’t enjoy anything, you can’t switch off your brain. You can’t relax and watch tv, because you don’t care about tv. You don’t care about cooking. You can’t relax in a hammock because your body and mind are restless, feeling like you need to do something but you don’t know what. You start a million jobs, and discard them because you can’t concentrate and you run out of energy. Human contact usually brings a bit of relief, and now there is none. You try to occupy your mind, but it always comes back to that solution. Every day is the same.

Yeah and i completely understand that and i'm not belittling anyone dealing with depression (sorry if it came across like that) i'm just talking about myself personally and how i'm dealing with it.

costacorta

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

Yeah i was a lot more negative about the whole thing even up to 2-3 weeks ago but i guess iv'e accepted it now and am just dealing with it.

Getting proper sleep as in 9-10hrs per night is playing a big part also and i'm lucky as i have a log cabin with doubles as my office and gym so i'm exercising more now than ever. Iv'e lost almost a stone in weight also and i think a lot of that comes from not only the exercise but also the home cooking.

Look i know it's not like that for everyone though and from a selfish perspective it's only when i stepped back and looked at how hard some have it i realised i'd nothing to be moaning about, not really.

You are right as majority only wallowing in self pity ,, I live in a built up Council estate and have been off work since lockdown and I have spent 4 weeks out and about cleaning weeding and even painting places just to keep myself active . In 4 weeks not one person came out and helped in any way and all you hear is fair play to you and aren’t you great !! ..My point is I hear lads on about pubs not open no football and their bored but wouldn’t get off there hole to maybe go out and do something for nothing..

ChelseaRentBoy

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The difference also is that you are choosing to find solace in the “simpler” things. Attitude is important here, it’s easy to find the negatives in this situation if you want to, and many are but you are choosing to find the positives.

I’m much the same, if the pubs are closed I dont care. I drink but I’m not the type to miss it if it’s not there. If a few bookies go bust I won’t loose sleep. If a soccer team doesn’t play a few games it doesn’t matter. People are not going to be evicted, houses won’t be repossessed, jobs come and go.

The weather is nice. Happy days.

If anyone wants to wallow in self pity and constantly look at the negatives that’s their attitude, and one that will Ultimately have mental implications.

Edit:Repost

Simon Harrison

lawrencesummers wrote: »

You see that’s fine, everybody or almost everybody is missing the social interactions, the sport etc etc. But it’s temporary and a small price to pay.

As far as knowing what happens post this your speculating, and not only are you speculating but your looking at POSSIBLE negative impacts this COULD have. That’s down to attitude. You could just as easily speculate that people might find better jobs. That house prices might be more affordable, that more people will be allowed to work from home and have better work life balances.

If your going to go down the rabbit hole of what COULD happen then make a choice to find the benefits.

Mostly agreed with you, my biggest concern is for other people's jobs and businesses when things return to normal. If I knew those would be ok and the economy wouldn't be in such a bad state that essential services and infrastructure were unfunded then I'd be fine with the situation too.

Multipass

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

I don't kow about others but i'm finding the lockdown easier to deal with as time goes by. I'm back to enjoying the simpler things in life like reading, walking the dog, cooking and relaxing in the hammock in the garden. Yeah i miss seeing some people but we are so lucky we live in the internet age where that doesn't become as big an issue as it would have 25-30 years ago.

It's not that i don't know others are struggling and this is a nightmare scenario for them but for me personally im not finding it that bad to follow the restrictions laid down by our government.

That’s great. But here’s the thing about depression - real depression, not just feeling a bit down. You can’t enjoy anything, you can’t switch off your brain. You can’t relax and watch tv, because you don’t care about tv. You don’t care about cooking. You can’t relax in a hammock because your body and mind are restless, feeling like you need to do something but you don’t know what. You start a million jobs, and discard them because you can’t concentrate and you run out of energy. Human contact usually brings a bit of relief, and now there is none. You try to occupy your mind, but it always comes back to that solution. Every day is the same.

lawrencesummers

stephenjmcd wrote: »

If all that works for you then grand but it's very much based on the individual person. Personally I miss being able to go to a football match on a Friday night, it's a hobby I've had for years and a huge social outlet.

I know of 1 person with a disability who in "normal" times gets social interaction through going to work and going to watch a football match on a Friday night, I keep in touch with him at the moment but he has neither of these outlets at the moment so it's very difficult to find solace there.

Also when this is over and people cant pay their mortgages the banks wont be so nice, people will end up being evicted and losing their homes, so while its grand now with the mortgage breaks that isn't going to last forever. So that isn't wallowing in self pity thats people being fearful for their future.

Nice weather wont help anyone worrying about their family in a few months time.

Personally I'm looking forward to getting back to a high level of normality in August hopefully, but it's very much not a one size fits all ideology everyone has different things to deal with during this that may negatively effect mental health and aren't as lucky to have the outlook that you or I might have.

You see that’s fine, everybody or almost everybody is missing the social interactions, the sport etc etc. But it’s temporary and a small price to pay.

As far as knowing what happens post this your speculating, and not only are you speculating but your looking at POSSIBLE negative impacts this COULD have. That’s down to attitude. You could just as easily speculate that people might find better jobs. That house prices might be more affordable, that more people will be allowed to work from home and have better work life balances.

If your going to go down the rabbit hole of what COULD happen then make a choice to find the benefits.

Galwayguy35

Gynoid wrote: »

It won't. Let us meet here in a year or two and I can guarantee you the health service, guards and social welfare will be okay. Even if we have multiple lockdowns. Maybe in the same shyte state they were in before but we are not going to be a dystopia no matter how much people bleat about the economy. I guarantee it. Money is not what people think it is.

Dan O Brien said over a month ago if the economy isn't kickstarted by summer then we are in a whole heap of trouble, I'd be more inclined to take his word on it rather than your guarantee.

ChelseaRentBoy

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The difference also is that you are choosing to find solace in the “simpler” things. Attitude is important here, it’s easy to find the negatives in this situation if you want to, and many are but you are choosing to find the positives.

I’m much the same, if the pubs are closed I dont care. I drink but I’m not the type to miss it if it’s not there. If a few bookies go bust I won’t loose sleep. If a soccer team doesn’t play a few games it doesn’t matter. People are not going to be evicted, houses won’t be repossessed, jobs come and go.

The weather is nice. Happy days.

If anyone wants to wallow in self pity and constantly look at the negatives that’s their attitude, and one that will Ultimately have mental implications.

Yeah i was a lot more negative about the whole thing even up to 2-3 weeks ago but i guess iv'e accepted it now and am just dealing with it.

Getting proper sleep as in 9-10hrs per night is playing a big part also and i'm lucky as i have a log cabin with doubles as my office and gym so i'm exercising more now than ever. Iv'e lost almost a stone in weight also and i think a lot of that comes from not only the exercise but also the home cooking.

Look i know it's not like that for everyone though and from a selfish perspective it's only when i stepped back and looked at how hard some have it i realised i'd nothing to be moaning about, not really.