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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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ZX7R

France are to extend there emergency status till July the 24th

fryup

its Tuesday that the 5km perimeter extension comes into effect, not now

JRant

road_high wrote: »

I don't- they are far the biggest proportion of spending now with Health- it's not possible to re balance the budget going forward without cuts, and severe ones. Not possible to raise tax on 0 economic activity elsewhere.

I'm just trying to be slightly optimistic about it. Don't disagree at all as we have no idea what the final bill will be.

stephenjmcd

ZX7R wrote: »

France are to extend there emergency status till July the 24th

Still planning in lifting restrictions from the 11th so not sure what the extended emergency actually covers. Presume it means they can limit who comes into the country etc

Glenomra

Penfailed wrote: »

Tiresome bullsh1t is calling this place a police state.

But isn't it a form of police state. Isn't that the reality of the gardai confining people to to a 2 km zone of their own house. In Turkmenistan eg. which is a police state people need police permission to travel from one place to another within the country. It might have been introduced for people's own 'ggod' but the fact remains we are now living in a form of police state.

Thelonious Monk

road_high wrote: »

I don't- they are far the biggest proportion of spending now with Health- it's not possible to re balance the budget going forward without cuts, and severe ones. Not possible to raise tax on 0 economic activity elsewhere.

Apart from front line services, surely all civil/public servants need to be taking a pay cut given the country will be broke for the foreseeable future. I expect lots of debate on the issue to start soon, surprised the Indo etc aren't writing about it yet.
They couldn't possibly cut healthcare workers wages though, I think most of us will be fine with that.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Glenomra wrote: »

But isn't it a form of police state. Isn't that the reality of the gardai confining people to to a 2 km zone of their own house. In Turkmenistan eg. which is a police state people need police permission to travel from one place to another within the country. It might have been introduced for people's own 'ggod' but the fact remains we are now living in a form of police state.

The Gardai are not confining anyone to a 2km zone. The govenrment restrictions are. The police are just enforcing the rules, which is exactly what they are supose to do by definition.

hmmm

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Cases are obviously going to increase as restrictions loosen, they won’t remain stable.

It's not obvious at all. Cases are currently declining because of earlier restrictions, cases should continue to decline but at a slower pace as we relax restrictions. If they start to increase, we have a problem and will have to roll back.

You don't have to be an expert to understand basic maths.

FintanMcluskey

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

They couldn't possibly cut healthcare workers wages though, I think most of us will be fine with that.

I like your populist approach.

The wages will absolutely be cut, and people will have to be fine with that.

addaword

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

, surely all civil/public servants need to be taking a pay cut given the country will be broke for the foreseeable future. .

Correct, the government will have no choice. Many are earning far more than they can spend in the next 12 or 18 months anyway.

Ellie1988

addaword wrote: »

Correct, the government will have no choice. Many are earning far more than they can spend in the next 12 or 18 months anyway.

Do you think that would that apply to all levels of public servants or just the higher earners? Some PS start on about 25k, seems harsh they would take a cut

road_high

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Apart from front line services, surely all civil/public servants need to be taking a pay cut given the country will be broke for the foreseeable future. I expect lots of debate on the issue to start soon, surprised the Indo etc aren't writing about it yet.
They couldn't possibly cut healthcare workers wages though, I think most of us will be fine with that.

Naive to think healthcare workers would be exempt? “Sure aren’t they lucky to have a job etc”.
The national media has been atrocious, expecting that level of honest debate from that tabloid? Not a chance.
I expect the discourse to move to economic realities very soon. Starting with phasing out of the Covid payments. Very sad but I don’t think people get it at all.

Thelonious Monk

Ellie1988 wrote: »

Do you think that would that apply to all levels of public servants or just the higher earners? Some PS start on about 25k, seems harsh they would take a cut

Well ideally the politicians would take at least 20% and those at the lower rungs would take the smallest cuts, it's the only fair way. In NZ the PM and her ministers have already taken 20%.

Glenomra

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

The Gardai are not confining anyone to a 2km zone. The govenrment restrictions are. The police are just enforcing the rules, which is exactly what they are supose to do by definition.

Isn't that the definition of a police state. Police acting as the arm of a repressive government. Imposing the 2 km zone o behalf of an authoritarian state

NegativeCreep

Ellie1988 wrote: »

Do you think that would that apply to all levels of public servants or just the higher earners? Some PS start on about 25k, seems harsh they would take a cut

They’ll take a cut either way through higher tax or USC or both.

FintanMcluskey

Ellie1988 wrote: »

Do you think that would that apply to all levels of public servants or just the higher earners? Some PS start on about 25k, seems harsh they would take a cut

Those judgement's about pay cuts are made by senior executives in an organisation on the higher salaries.

Hence why the lower salaries suffer most.

Hense why the government ministers refused a pay cut this week. Could you belive that!!!!

ZX7R

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Still planning in lifting restrictions from the 11th so not sure what the extended emergency actually covers. Presume it means they can limit who comes into the country etc

Yes looks to be an extension of there current emergency legislation,so while lifting restrictions from the 11th if restrictions need to be imposed again the law still exists.
On another note
Simon Harris has been quoted
Not looking good for foreign travel for holidays for the rest of the year.
With the current travel advisory been extended to the end of the year.
He is also seeking legislation to be brought in making it mandatory for travelers entering the country to quarantine for two weeks.

road_high

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Those judgement's about pay cuts are made by senior executives in an organisation on the higher salaries.

Hence why the lower salaries suffer most.

Hense why the government ministers refused a pay cut this week. Could you belive that!!!!

The vast bulk of expenditure is in the lower-middle pay scales- so to make any real overall savings this is where you need to cut. Just a fact of life. I’ve been saying all along there’s a huge price for all this. Seems the majority would prefer ram cotton wool in their ears and share happy clappy stories that face up to this

FintanMcluskey

Glenomra wrote: »

Isn't that the definition of a police state. Police acting as the arm of a repressive government. Imposing the 2 km zone o behalf of an authoritarian state

Police following orders from an unelected government to restrict people way beyond the necessary time frame required to have any health benefit?
And most of the force are not aware of the legislation surrounding the movement of citizens?
And a protest organised for the largest city park in Europe where social distancing could be adhered to was prevented from occurring?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Glenomra wrote: »

Isn't that the definition of a police state. Police acting as the arm of a repressive government. Imposing the 2 km zone o behalf of an authoritarian state

By that definition, you could argue that pretty much every country on the planet is a police state.

A police state is one where the police actually make or influence the making of the laws. In Ireland, that's definitely not the case. The government are listing to health experts, not the police.

FintanMcluskey

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

By that definition, you could argue that pretty much every country on the planet is a police state.

A police state is one where the police actually make or influence the making of the laws. In Ireland, that's definitely not the case. The government are listing to health experts, not the police.

The removal of the right to protest is surely excessive though?

Tell me how

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The removal of the right to protest is surely excessive though?

Surely, by it's very nature, protesting would involve many people in close proximity to each other.

That alone, at this point, would indicate that preventing this happening is not excessive.

FintanMcluskey

Tell me how wrote: »

Surely, by it's very nature, protesting would involve many people in close proximity to each other.

That alone, at this point, would indicate that preventing this happening is not excessive.

That would be the case with a street protest. In fairness the phoenix park is 2k acres or something, surely social distancing could be adhered to?

[Deleted User]

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

This is what we need, Gardai in riot gear for whats essentially a pretty peaceful demonstration albeit lead by a bit of a loon.

Ahh yes, I'm sure the Spanish were thinking something similar for National Women's day and their large marches. That turned out well, didn't it?

Public gatherings during Covid is utterly retarded, and puts everyone at risk. People will travel to go to that gathering, congregate with others who are possibly infected, and then return home spreading the virus further. Few Irish people are bothering to wear masks, or gloves when outside. Sure, there's some attempts at social distancing, but there's plenty who are letting it slide as time goes by.

Every democratic right has been removed and the unfortunate issue is that for evermore those democratic rights can be easily removed in the name of public health.

Your democratic rights haven't been removed. Since that's the right to vote. I assume you mean your right to do stupid crap that puts other people at risk?

Have you any examples where Irish governments have removed civil rights permanently before? hmm?

Personally I think this virus is absolutely not a justification of the removal of those rights. This virus is mostly lethal to those near the end of life and to imprison and restrict the healthy for 6 months is borderline tyranny, especially so, when other counties will have restrictions lifted months earlier

Whereas I think many people are rather selfish, and will complain regardless of what happens. Just looking for something to be offended over, even when it means reducing the risks to other people. Borderline tyranny? Doesn't anyone else find this attitude awfully childish? Is this a millennial thing?

FintanMcluskey

Deleted User wrote: »

Ahh yes, I'm sure the Spanish were thinking something similar for National Women's day and their large marches. That turned out well, didn't it?

Public gatherings during Covid is utterly retarded, and puts everyone at risk. People will travel to go to that gathering, congregate with others who are possibly infected, and then return home spreading the virus further. Few Irish people are bothering to wear masks, or gloves when outside. Sure, there's some attempts at social distancing, but there's plenty who are letting it slide as time goes by.

Your democratic rights haven't been removed. Since that's the right to vote. I assume you mean your right to do stupid crap that puts other people at risk?

Have you any examples where Irish governments have removed civil rights permanently before? hmm?

Whereas I think many people are rather selfish, and will complain regardless of what happens. Just looking for something to be offended over, even when it means reducing the risks to other people. Borderline tyranny? Doesn't anyone else find this attitude awfully childish? Is this a millennial thing?

That load of waffle you have posted is based on the virus killing everyone. The usual rhetoric that gets thrown about by people hysterical and bound up with selfish fear.
We didnt cure the flu, we possibly wont cure this, should people stay at home until obesity gets them?

Larbre34

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

That load of waffle you have posted is based on the virus killing everyone. The usual rhetoric that gets thrown about by people hysterical and bound up with selfish fear.
We didnt cure the flu, we possibly wont cure this, should people stay at home until obesity gets them?

Its too late for me, tell my Momma I love her......burp.

[Deleted User]

Glenomra wrote: »

But isn't it a form of police state. Isn't that the reality of the gardai confining people to to a 2 km zone of their own house. In Turkmenistan eg. which is a police state people need police permission to travel from one place to another within the country. It might have been introduced for people's own 'ggod' but the fact remains we are now living in a form of police state.

Are the laws being suspended or reinterpreted by the police? Nope. Are we seeing people being dragged off, beaten up by the police, and getting harsh sentencing? nope. I could go on... but what's the point?

You obviously have no idea of what a police state is like.

[Deleted User]

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

That load of waffle you have posted is based on the virus killing everyone.

Horse****. I didn't say any such thing. Care to actually deal with what I posted?

The usual rhetoric that gets thrown about by people hysterical and bound up with selfish fear.
We didnt cure the flu, we possibly wont cure this, should people stay at home until obesity gets them?

Of course not.,. but some common sense would be nice. The reasons given for social distancing and cocooning make logical sense. Do it for a while, see what happens, and re-evaluate the situation. Determine the effects of the different waves of the virus and it's effects on the population.

Getting hysterical isn't exactly helpful.

FintanMcluskey

Deleted User wrote: »

Are the laws being suspended or reinterpreted by the police? Nope. Are we seeing people being dragged off, beaten up by the police, and getting harsh sentencing? nope. I could go on... but what's the point?

1-The laws are being misinterpreted

2-Nobody is being dragged off because compliance is 100%

RugbyLad11

Deleted User wrote: »

Are the laws being suspended or reinterpreted by the police? Nope. Are we seeing people being dragged off, beaten up by the police, and getting harsh sentencing? nope. I could go on... but what's the point?

You obviously have no idea of what a police state is like.

A few days ago the guards posted on twitter that they turned someone around because they were travelling more than 2km to a parcel motel locker, if people can collect package from a post office why can't they collect from parcel motel?

They quickly deleted the tweet after they realized they were in the wrong