Masks

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Leo addressing the nation, not a thing said about masks/face coverings. Idiot.

Not even face coverings? That was an easy escape route for them, they could excuse that were against masks but never against coverings...

So FG are intent on destroying the economy and letting people die. Brilliant.

McGiver wrote: »

Not even face coverings? That was an easy escape route for them, they could excuse that were against masks but never against coverings...

So FG are intent on destroying the economy and letting people die. Brilliant.

They really have dug their heels in and against all logic, but so long as Leo cringingly quotes Seamus Heaney sure aren't we only great and sadly the majority will lap that up even when they're burying relatives and friends, at a distance and only close family.

We're being led by fcuking halfwits and not just on the mask front. They've either not done, or have done halfarsed what every other nation that got a handle on this did. Sadly unlike the Czechs frankly we're a more servile lot so won't start a grassroots movement the way they did. Who do you think you are arguing against your betters. I love this country, but at times like we're living through I despair at it too.

McGiver wrote: »

Not even face coverings? That was an easy escape route for them, they could excuse that were against masks but never against coverings...

So FG are intent on destroying the economy and letting people die. Brilliant.

The five phase plan is on gov.ie... Face masks is based on guidance... So that saves them.

BrianD3

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Leo addressing the nation, not a thing said about masks/face coverings. Idiot.

He didn't say anything but there is quiet mention of masks in the "roadmap" in relation to visiting those who are cocooning. There's also mention of WHO and ECDC recommendations.

Sounds like we're at the start of the rowback. May well play out as Wibbs and others predicted. Let's watch the spin, fudging, ass covering and selective use of language.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1256303518346084353?s=20

BrianD3 wrote: »

Sounds like we're at the start of the rowback. May well play out as Wibbs and others predicted. Let's watch the spin, fudging, ass covering and selective use of language.

At this stage B, I'm really not so sure they will ever make them mandatory in enclosed public spaces. Like I've said before they will continue to push the advisory to save face and cover their arses. Keep the mediocre middle ground, sure aren't we doing better than the UK etc. I mean tonight a couple of months in they're only now talking about ramping up contact tracing to a more vigorous degree. Something nations who have done far better than us have been doing for months.

Kenjataimu

The five phase plan... So much talk about maintaining distancing... Including allowing small groups of people to gather and even visit other people's homes...

Surely getting back to some kind of normal will have to include face mask/coverings??? Social distancing can't be maintained in the likes of a bus... Yeah they made every second seat free or whatever way they went about it on buses but that's not going to stop a sneeze.

[Deleted User]

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Firstly who's looking to buy drink at 9am, think they've an issue.

Secondly if as expected face masks won't be mandatory so not in law, therefore shops cant actually police it. If someone wants to go out without one on theres nothing the shop worker can do.

People that abuse those working in retail are scum anyway.

Hm, I wonder about that though, can shops refuse admission like pubs can? If a pub can have a dress code why can't a shop

Seanergy

Kenjataimu wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1256303518346084353?s=20

Had the inkling that masks were probably going to be introduced in this manner, see post below from 14th April, as it was the only route for the HSE to save face without going against the WHO. They are propping up each other at the expense.

So the decision was made then as feared. I feel sick.

The WHO fired there silver bullet, the HSE had their war zone footing, I might just have to go nuclear.

I feel sick.

Seanergy wrote: »

Appears to me from what Dr Nabarro said on RTÉ - Today with Sean O’Rourke show titled Exiting Lockdown 14 April 2020 This link might work

that the WHO will recommend homemade facemasks for countries exiting lockdown and not before, and that's how they save face.

Ireland will continue to plod along.

Would have been fitting for O'Rourke to have a spokesman for the ECDC on at the same time seeing the HSE claims to operate a delayed repsonse on the back of both mouthpieces. Synopsis on RTE

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

The five phase plan is on gov.ie... Face masks is based on guidance... So that saves them.

See it now.

Wearing of face coverings in community - Phase 1 - Based on Guidance

No mention of any guidance or masks in the whole 25 page document. What the heck it's supposed to mean???

The only mention is Phase 2 with relation to visits to the elderly.

Visits to homes of over 70s and medically vulnerable by no more than a small number of persons for a short period of time wearing gloves, face coverings, maintaining strict 2m social distancing.

Beyond mediocre. No clarity.

Arrival

Wibbs wrote: »

They really have dug their heels in and against all logic, but so long as Leo cringingly quotes Seamus Heaney sure aren't we only great and sadly the majority will lap that up even when they're burying relatives and friends, at a distance and only close family.

We're being led by fcuking halfwits and not just on the mask front. They've either not done, or have done halfarsed what every other nation that got a handle on this did. Sadly unlike the Czechs frankly we're a more servile lot so won't start a grassroots movement the way they did. Who do you think you are arguing against your betters. I love this country, but at times like we're living through I despair at it too.

I always thought it just from experiences in other countries, but I find our population is simply less intelligent in general than some of our European counterparts. Obviously I'm not saying we don't have many very intelligent and internationally renowned minds in our population because we certainly do. But in general people here are just not as concerned about critically thinking in order to objectively analyse things. We are laid back and just want to tip away, it's where the "ah sure, be grand" attitude comes from.

Don't get me wrong, I love that attitude and when you return home from somewhere like Germany for example, where many people can be so strict and direct, it makes you feel happy to be home. But in a time of crisis you wish people would tune in a bit more and actually consider how we really are getting on, instead of blindly accepting we're doing well just because that's what's being painted in the media

Arrival wrote: »

I always thought it just from experiences in other countries, but I find our population is simply less intelligent in general than some of our European counterparts.

I certainly wouldn't say less intelligent A. Good god I have met muppets from every place in Europe. I'd actually consider and believe the Irish the more sparky, more plastic of mind and more clued in than most. And with a sense of humour with it. For me and of course very much IMHO, our biggest problem is esteem and a need to feel "authority" is always to be respected, but kinda danced around too. Doff the cap to The Man™ but cock a snook to him too. Sure it'll be grand.

Don't get me wrong, I love that attitude and when you return home from somewhere like Germany for example, where many people can be so strict and direct, it makes you feel happy to be home. But in a time of crisis you wish people would tune in a bit more and actually consider how we really are getting on, instead of blindly accepting we're doing well just because that's what's being painted in the media

I'd agree with you there A.

Seanergy

The 5 stage plan was the smoke and mirrors, it's completely changable, it was staged and the audience fell for it. Everybody jumping up and down talking about when the cravan parks and when this and that will reopen.

The only real message today was people are going to be advised to wear masks in public.

Infini

Wibbs wrote: »

At this stage B, I'm really not so sure they will ever make them mandatory in enclosed public spaces. Like I've said before they will continue to push the advisory to save face and cover their arses. Keep the mediocre middle ground, sure aren't we doing better than the UK etc. I mean tonight a couple of months in they're only now talking about ramping up contact tracing to a more vigorous degree. Something nations who have done far better than us have been doing for months.

I'd be honest they'll only recommend them and nothing more because there isn't alot more that can be done as it's not possible culturally to make people wear them either here, Asian countries have a different culture and approach compared to us, I mean take public transport here they say essential travel only yet junkies and homeless are still out wandering about on them and that.

Recommending people wear them will help but honestly my opinion is that is all they can do, they probably will be able to have more strict enforcement in the likes of Airports where they have more security and more control about removing unruly people but thats it.

stephenjmcd

Infini wrote: »

I'd be honest they'll only recommend them and nothing more because there isn't alot more that can be done as it's not possible culturally to make people wear them either here, Asian countries have a different culture and approach compared to us, I mean take public transport here they say essential travel only yet junkies and homeless are still out wandering about on them and that.

Recommending people wear them will help but honestly my opinion is that is all they can do, they probably will be able to have more strict enforcement in the likes of Airports where they have more security and more control about removing unruly people but thats it.

Leo said it himself on the late late tonight, it'll only be a guidance that'll be issued and it wont be enforceable.

wakka12

No , I'm young and healthy and isolating with my parents who are both healthy and under 55 and my siblings who are both healthy. We have no contact with any elderly or sick. I'll leave them to people who need them

Dubl07

I've been saying from the very beginning that we should all wear masks except in our own homes or while in the fresh air with adequate physical distancing.

I was initially jeered by some but persisted. Despite health issues, I have so far avoided the virus (2 x tests). The problem with this virus is that you can be infected and contagious without showing any symptoms at all for over a week. The guidelines have been political because Ireland doesn't have sufficient commercial masks available for health workers let alone the public.

Now I'm getting requests for my home-made masks from friends, family, neighbours including those who work in healthcare because the professional PPE isn't widely available for personal use and is environmentally wasteful. There's a growing network of people who can sew making double/triple-layer cotton masks with a wired nose-piece and pocket for a replacement non-woven filter. The key points are fit, breathability, comfort and for many people, speed of putting on.

My fabric stash of cotton is slowly diminishing so I won't be making any planned curtains, quilts or clothes, but keeping people in my circle safe is more important than fashion or appearances.

jimmycrackcorm

I suspect that the idea of not pushing masks, lies not so much in making sure that there are enough for the medical people (after all we can make homemade masks); but that to get over the virus, we actually need herd immunity. Otherwise, we continue to spread it until that occurs.

wakka12 wrote: »

No , I'm young and healthy and isolating with my parents who are both healthy and under 55 and my siblings who are both healthy. We have no contact with any elderly or sick. I'll leave them to people who need them

What if you're asymptomatic or presymtomatic, where you carry the virus and still able to spread it?

You don't need contact with the elderly or sick... You can spread it to anyone in the shops, if you sneeze you leave behind a cloud of invisible aerosols for someone else to walk through.

But you're young and healthy so invisible.

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Leo said it himself on the late late tonight, it'll only be a guidance that'll be issued and it wont be enforceable.

With asymptomatic and presymtomatic people, there's no point advising people unless they make it mandatory for everybody. Cut all the bull**** down, "do we need a mask or not"... Just have one clear idea. Otherwise there will be people going out thinking they're not sick, so don't need a mask. Just make something clear for once.

stephenjmcd

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

With asymptomatic and presymtomatic people, there's no point advising people unless they make it mandatory for everybody. Cut all the bull**** down, "do we need a mask or not"... Just have one clear idea. Otherwise there will be people going out thinking they're not sick, so don't need a mask. Just make something clear for once.

Well its not going to be mandatory that's been made pretty clear, apart from that guidance to follow in the next 2 weeks.

If you want to wear one wear one if not you wont be forced to. Pretty simple

wakka12 wrote: »

No , I'm young and healthy and isolating with my parents who are both healthy and under 55 and my siblings who are both healthy. We have no contact with any elderly or sick. I'll leave them to people who need them

Major misunderstanding of the virus as well as of the purpose of the masks.

Masks protect the spread from you to others. Your own protection is only secondary. Think about others, especially the old, weak and vulnerable.

There is now strong evidence that there is large number of asymptomatic people. So people are likely spreading it unaware.

For example the Dutch found 3% antibodies in a 10000 sample of blood donors whereas they had only 0.2% confirmed cases i.e. the prevalence in population is possibly 10 to 20 more than the confirmed number of cases. There further large scale testing programs done in Europe and we will know more about the prevalence in the population in early May.

Being healthy, young and self-isolating gives you no guarantee of not catching it and not spreading it. There are many cases from the UK of perfectly fit young people getting serious or dying. Also, I don't think you never go out and never meet any people - that's impossible, you must be doing shopping.

Seanergy

Infini wrote: »

I'd be honest they'll only recommend them and nothing more because there isn't alot more that can be done as it's not possible culturally to make people wear them either here.

Recommending people wear them will help but honestly my opinion is that is all they can do

I wouldn't have thought it was possible culturally to shut the pubs but that happened.

They can only recommend them beacuse supplies are still low and the HSE is not willling to share outside of the frontline with the vulnerable and mature. Also because there is no new scientific evidence to support making mandatory, no new evidence is needed for advising.

That might be all they can do

Pitch n Putt

What’s the point in recommending masks now at this stage. We survived the last 7 weeks without them so it’ll be just another afterthought by HSE /NPHET /government

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

With asymptomatic and presymtomatic people, there's no point advising people unless they make it mandatory for everybody. Cut all the bull**** down, "do we need a mask or not"... Just have one clear idea. Otherwise there will be people going out thinking they're not sick, so don't need a mask. Just make something clear for once.

The crack in their arses is well worn from sitting on the fence, with the occasional lurch off it, often a forced one. Generally the only thing they'll be clear about is arse coverage and vagueness. I dread to think about the end result of all this and the aftermath. Sure it'll be graaaand(throw in some banal poetic quote to keep the suburban housewives happy).

Boggles

Leo said last night the science is split 50/50 on masks.

Just to clarify, no they aren't.

Politicians are split on them, but that has nothing to do with science.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I suspect that the idea of not pushing masks, lies not so much in making sure that there are enough for the medical people (after all we can make homemade masks); but that to get over the virus, we actually need herd immunity. Otherwise, we continue to spread it until that occurs.

No, masks will be essential.

I'm afraid that the evidence to date is that infection by Covid doesn't generate sufficient level of antibodies to prevent reinfection. This virus is specific not only how it tricks the immune system but also by the fact that infection doesn't generate long term immunity unlike other viruses. Measles or chickenpox virus infection provides antibodies which prevent infection for decades, for influenza strains it is couple of years. With covid-19 it looks like it's not even a year so far. Herd immunity won't happen on population level just based on the exposure generating antibodies, they are insufficient. What seems to be needed as per virologists is cellular immunity which unlike antibody immunity takes very long time to build up in the population.

So masks are absolutely essential while we lose restrictions, keep the economy from crashing, keep things going and wait for population level cell immunity and vaccine. Which is going to be years. Not months.

Arrival

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Well its not going to be mandatory that's been made pretty clear, apart from that guidance to follow in the next 2 weeks.

If you want to wear one wear one if not you wont be forced to. Pretty simple

But it's ****ing ridiculous because of the actual way this virus works. Since so many infected people can be highly infectious without actually feeling sick the only solution to find and isolate the virus is to test everyone; this isn't possible at all. So the next best thing to do is just act like everyone may be infected and not showing symptoms. Everyone wearing masks to block/reduce their droplets and aerosols escaping from their breathing/coughing/sneezing means that the people who genuinely are infected are reducing the amount of people they're infecting while in public

Wibbs wrote: »

The crack in their arses is well worn from sitting on the fence, with the occasional lurch off it, often a forced one. Generally the only thing they'll be clear about is arse coverage and vagueness. I dread to think about the end result of all this and the aftermath. Sure it'll be graaaand(throw in some banal poetic quote to keep the suburban housewives happy).

Yep.

I'll tell ya what will happen if they don't force masks as a part of the return to normality.

There'll be a second spike, cases will go up again, more people will die, further lockdown will be needed, further billions of revenue will be lost, unemployment will get worse. And of course the taxpayer will pay it both on humanity as well as financial level...