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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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sterz

Where did you see it'll be at 6:30?

Juwwi

na1 wrote: »

I'm bit out of the loop, so what's the story with stay-at-home until 5th of May rule? Is it going to be announced today? should it be published on gov.ie or any other resource?

They misled us all ,, they meant 5th of May 2021 .
This evening leo is doing another announcement

na1

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

I'm expecting the announcement tonight to be bad so he will be on the late late show to try win the public over

I'm bit out of the loop, so what's the story with stay-at-home until 5th of May rule? Is it going to be announced today? should it be published on gov.ie or any other resource?

tobefrank321

gozunda wrote: »

I'd disagree. Never took you for a Boris fan tbh. But no matter. If the hat fits then wear it.

The analogy is closest to home with a small self serving number of individuals suggesting we should throw certain categories of people under the bus and give up even trying to control the rate of infection and stopping the health services been overwhelmed. And yes the analogy stands - i reckon the same would have been cheering on the Vichy republic.

But to remind those who've forgotten again - it's not just the HSE and Ireland. This is a global problem and thankfully not one to be decided by self serving idiots.

I'm not sure why you keep misrepresenting what people are saying or how you are allowed to do so.

No-one here has said anything about throwing anyone under the bus. Most people have said nursing and care homes need to be targeted with better measures such as far better PPE, removing positive cases immediately and isolating them in a centre similar to City West, banning the movement of care staff between facilities and isolating care staff from the rest of the community as much as possible. This will be costly but worth it far more than sticking 1 million people on the dole to deal with a very concentrated issue in care homes. Others will have cocoon too.

Sticking 1 million on the dole is not the answer. A short term lockdown was a good idea to give us time to come up with a better more sustainable long term plan and that long term plan should not include a highly generalised lockdown.

As for your WW2 analogies they are tiresome at this stage. But if you do want to use one, try this - If American, British and Russian soldiers, decided to sit at home and listen to the radio rather than go out an fight and confront the enemy, where would we be now?

The front line in this "war" is nursing homes, care homes and those with underlying conditions. These people need to be targeted for protection. That hasn't happened. And yes they have been thrown under the bus by a government who are more interested in stopping people going about their daily business than specifically helping those most at risk.

Thousands of gardai to patrol checkpoints. 200 staff sent out to nursing homes in crisis. Says it all.

briany

Roanmore wrote: »

The one thing that annoys me here is people saying I'm going to listen to the medical experts over you.

A medical expert messed up my wife's surgery and left her with permanent nerve damage.
A medical expert presided over the Cervical Check controversy.
A medical expert presided over Hep C scandal.
A medical expert presided over the symphysiotomy scandal
Medical experts are presiding over the trolley numbers.

Yes of course listen to Medical experts, take on board what they say but this blind allegiance and look down attitude of some to people who question medical experts is nauseating and then when somebody is questioned they pull out the "dead relative" card.

Medical experts. The plural is the thing, here. Pay attention to what the lasting consensus is in the medical community. You can cite the failures of individuals belonging to any group to undermine trust in it, so I don't really take it as an argument.

Also, if you're going to take negative individual examples, there must be positive individual examples to demonstrate wisdom and ability. I'm sure there are plenty of medical experts to be thanked for saving lives over these past two months.

RugbyLad11

JPCN1 wrote: »

Should have realised he'd be on the Late Late, he does love the limelight.

Will scold us again?

Prefer him to explain why we had one of the lowest ICU capacities in the EU at the outset of this...

Maybe how he couldn't pay a dignified wage to the army and other frontline workers but now can throw 115 million a month for empty private hospitals.

How is he going to sort out the waiting lists which will have grown hugely over the period..

Trivial stuff like that.

I guess it'll be more Churchillian rhetoric and a bit of Heaney.

I'm expecting the announcement tonight to be bad so he will be on the late late show to try win the public over

mandrake04

snotboogie wrote: »

and have thousands of people policing the hundreds of border crossings with the North? No more entering Ireland at all for the foreseeable future?

Like I say its not going happen, you can only take the edge off but the numbers are neither going up or down just constant. Thats the way it is now.

RugbyLad11

gozunda wrote: »

As was pointed our previously- its just as well a lot of just 'live with it' brigade weren't around during ww2.

So we are just to give up and surrender yes?

No restrictions and if someones dies of the disease tough titty?

Glad I dont live in your world ...

Look around you, most of the counties around the world are beginning to open up.

You can stay locked inside your room for the next few years while the rest of us get on with life.

You compare it with ww2 but lad you would've not lasting a day back day. In ww2 people just got on with life and were sent to battlefield were they knew they mostly likely would never return

almostover

Roanmore wrote: »

The one thing that annoys me here is people saying I'm going to listen to the medical experts over you.

A medical expert messed up my wife's surgery and left her with permanent nerve damage.
A medical expert presided over the Cervical Check controversy.
A medical expert presided over Hep C scandal.
A medical expert presided over the symphysiotomy scandal
Medical experts are presiding over the trolley numbers.

Yes of course listen to Medical experts, take on board what they say but this blind allegiance and look down attitude of some to people who question medical experts is nauseating and then when somebody is questioned they pull out the "dead relative" card.

Would you believe that medical experts are also humans and not infallible? We follow their guidance as they have extensive training and vast experience in the field of medical science which most of us do not. Yes, they make mistakes and yes they should be open to challenge but in general it is a good approach if the general public follow their health advice. Their job is a hard enough one without a cohort of society trying to undermine them at every chance they get. It's easy hurl from the ditch!

easypazz

gozunda wrote: »

So we are just to give up and surrender yes?

How many times has it been explained to you that nobody is saying this.

You should learn to read and try to understand other peoples viewpoints before constantly throwing your toys out of your pram.

Penfailed

boring accountant wrote: »

Tell that to the Gardaí outside my estate every other day.

Why...what are they doing/saying?

JPCN1

nelly17 wrote: »

The Meeting with NPHET is 3pm so Leo will probably be on the 6 one news - hes due on the Late Late tonight also

Should have realised he'd be on the Late Late, he does love the limelight.

Will scold us again?

Prefer him to explain why we had one of the lowest ICU capacities in the EU at the outset of this...

Maybe how he couldn't pay a dignified wage to the army and other frontline workers but now can throw 115 million a month for empty private hospitals.

How is he going to sort out the waiting lists which will have grown hugely over the period..

Trivial stuff like that.

I guess it'll be more Churchillian rhetoric and a bit of Heaney.

tobefrank321

KrustyUCC wrote: »

OK I take your point

Majority of other countries have plans in place though

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1135935/

Portugal should have less ICU capacity than us

Our ICU capacity due to COVID is 103 of the 312 beds we originally had

Apparently we should now have 800+ beds

Even considering non COVID ICU cases that Shoukd be a good buffer

ICU Ventilators are not even viewed as always the best way to deal with severe cases anymore and in many cases exacerbate the situation.

A number of hospitals in the UK and US are now using Nasal canula oxygenation as an alternative. Likely cheaper and easier to use than ventilators.

eg this Chicago hospital.

https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefront/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/uchicago-medicine-doctors-see-truly-remarkable-success-using-ventilator-alternatives-to-treat-covid19

drunkmonkey

boring accountant wrote: »

Tell that to the Gardaí outside my estate every other day.

Ask yourself what would NWA say...

Roanmore

The one thing that annoys me here is people saying I'm going to listen to the medical experts over you.

A medical expert messed up my wife's surgery and left her with permanent nerve damage.
A medical expert presided over the Cervical Check controversy.
A medical expert presided over Hep C scandal.
A medical expert presided over the symphysiotomy scandal
Medical experts are presiding over the trolley numbers.

Yes of course listen to Medical experts, take on board what they say but this blind allegiance and look down attitude of some to people who question medical experts is nauseating and then when somebody is questioned they pull out the "dead relative" card.

gozunda

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

YES! as this virus is not going anywhere so we must learn to live with it

As was pointed our previously- its just as well a lot of just 'live with it' brigade weren't around during ww2.

So we are just to give up and surrender yes?

No restrictions and if someones dies of the disease tough titty?

Glad I dont live in your world ...

boring accountant

JayRoc wrote: »

Yes. Exactly my point.

I don't know why people keep bringing up 2km in relation to anything other than their daily exercise. It's infuriating

Tell that to the Gardaí outside my estate every other day.

Fitz*

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

Yeah he has to do something, the meeting up with two people would be such a moral boost but I won't hold my breath

You know well though that Irish people would flout this and be meeting up with more than 2 people at the first attempt, and even some house parties too.

drunkmonkey

never_mind wrote: »

The effects of this are beginning to take hold and am having quite horrible thoughts. This would be a lovely things for us to do safely. Even if I could visit a family member outside of 2k in their garden.

Just go and if you get told turn back do, you won't be arrested. Just say it's your turn to get messages for someone cocooning..have the family member lined up to verify it.

niallo27

Naos wrote: »

They may be in a worse position than us in terms of cases/deaths, but look at the total number of ICU beds per 100k if things start going south:

Belgium as you've quoted have almost 2.5x the ICU beds we have.

I'm aware we have increased capacity recently with the Private hospital takeover, not sure if other countries have done similar, a quick google says they have so using the above to keep it like for like.

Looking at this graph, Sweden must be absolutely ****ed. They will have 100k deaths going by this graph and the models the Irish government is using.

RugbyLad11

showpony1 wrote: »

People that don't live at home with family will then be exposed to everyone they live with's gatherings?

YES! as this virus is not going anywhere so we must learn to live with it

never_mind

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

Yeah he has to do some, the meeting up with two people would be such a moral boost but I won't hold my breath

The effects of this are beginning to take hold and am having quite horrible thoughts. This would be a lovely things for us to do safely. Even if I could visit a family member outside of 2k in their garden.

RugbyLad11

KrustyUCC wrote: »

The key to the roadmap will be what is in each phase

It can't be too stung out and too unambitious or long

Take Belgium for example

They expect people to be able to host gatherings at home on May 18th

As an from Monday you can meet up with 2 people who dont live with them

All shops to reopen May 11th with social distancing

Their plan has specific dates in mind

Will be interesting to see if Leo's does later

Yeah he has to do something, the meeting up with two people would be such a moral boost but I won't hold my breath

gozunda

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

It's pure guesswork and nothing else when "estimating" how much of the population will potentially get infected.
There's no evidence to back any of it up.
For all we actually know, infections might have fallen anyway without intervention. Other endemic coronavirus strains increase in late winter/early spring then fall naturally. We have no data to prove this strain is any different.

I'll stick with the medical experts on that issue and ignore your personal musings if you dont mind ...

snotboogie

mandrake04 wrote: »

Mass testing just tells you if you are going in the correct direction, but it has to be done right with results back in 12-48 hrs tops. None of this 2-3 week circle-jerking.

Too many infections now to try and suppress it, you can only restrict the growth take the edge off rather than suppress and snuff it out NZ style. The chance was missed in early-mid March

If you want to suppress it now you need to close down everything, supermarkets, off-licence, everything. No one steps out their door for 2 weeks, once the two weeks are up it will be suppressed and those still standing can walk out the door.

That's not going to happen ...so you can only stumble forward and restrict.

and have thousands of people policing the hundreds of border crossings with the North? No more entering Ireland at all for the foreseeable future?

mandrake04

hmmm wrote: »

Mass testing will not suppress this, it will only help to suppress it.

Social distancing and the ban on gatherings are probably the key measures which have suppressed the virus so far. They will have to continue, with some exceptions if possible.

Mass testing just tells you if you are going in the correct direction, but it has to be done right with results back in 12-48 hrs tops. None of this 2-3 week circle-jerking.

Too many infections now to try and suppress it, you can only restrict the growth take the edge off rather than suppress and snuff it out NZ style. The chance was missed in early-mid March

If you want to suppress it now you need to close down everything, supermarkets, off-licence, everything. No one steps out their door for 2 weeks, once the two weeks are up it will be suppressed and those still standing can walk out the door.

That's not going to happen ...so you can only stumble forward and restrict.

Juwwi

Just reading back a little bit ,,the contact tracing not being up to scratch is a bit of a joke ,, there are thousands in the public sector that could be moved to contact tracing if needed that are sitting at home doing nothing on full pay at the moment .

The testing part l can sort of understand there being teething problems but contact tracing we should be well on top of at this stage .

gozunda

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I dont think anyone is arguing against the phased reopening it's the proper way to do things.
What's annoying people is being told constantly we're doing well but not well enough, when the vast majority of the general public have done what's been asked of them and seem to be still getting the blame for want of a better phrase as to why we're not in a position to start the phased reopening. When the HSE and dept of health have been talking about meeting this target of 15k tests a day for the last 4 weeks, likewise contact tracing not up to scratch. The public have done what's been asked, the powers that be haven't

I dont see that as being the case at all.

No one is saying people are to blameas far as I can see. Yes the numbers infected and dying needs to be reduced. The majority of people are going with the restrictions. It's a minority of eejits who are not.

Yes there are problems with contract tracing and other issues - it would be surprising that in the middle of a pandemic everything went ticketeyboo. It hasn't - but plenty has gone well. The country health service is not been overrun thankfully. The reason we need to keep going in the short term is so that is maintained. I believe most people understand that.

drunkmonkey

C__MC wrote: »

Will Harris lift the laws around restrictions anyone think?

I think the restrictions wont make a huge difference to most people from tonight on, many people are out and about as it is.

I hope they do as I want to get the hell out of here as the risk of staying has gone through the roof, I've a second home in a rural location and would feel a lot safer if I could get myself and the family to it.
Forcing people to stay when there's imminent danger is criminal.

KrustyUCC

"Mr Creed was responding to a question from Sinn Féin TD Brian Stanley, who raised concerns about social distancing at a meat plant.

The Laois-Offaly TD said there were significant concerns about social distancing at the plant, where he alleged there had been 120 cases of the virus confirmed.

Mr Creed told the Dáil "that is not the information available to me", and he said that Department of Agriculture veterinary inspectors and staff were operating at the plant."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1135916/

More lies from the government