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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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boring accountant

lawrencesummers wrote: »

If your an accountant As your name suggests why don’t you put a figure on it?

How many dead healthcare workers is acceptable to you because some businesses are hitting a bump in the road????

How many healthcare workers die in a normal year?

A “bump in the road” does not cause otherwise successful businesses to become insolvent. Those businesses put food on the table for hundreds of thousands of people. Those employees pay taxes to fund the HSE every year.

How many more people will die over the next 10 years because we can’t afford to invest in the HSE?

easypazz

Penfailed wrote: »

No one knows 'exactly' when the virus arrived anywhere.

I agree with you.

But why are you trotting out this nonsense "we are one calendar month behind Spain" then?

Sweet.Science

LIBERATE IRELAND

All the twerps working from home watching their bank account go up and up telling people who will have no jobs to go back to to cop on and get on with this never ending lockdown being run by a load of elite clowns in Government

Elite Ireland still alive and well

jonnny68

bluelamp wrote: »

It's time be realistic - if rules and regulations are too difficult to follow, people will stop following them. Human nature.

Whether you are a lock down fanatic, or a "just a flu" believer - it's in everyone's interests for these rules to be relaxed slightly or people will stop following any of them.

Will a couple who dont live together continue to not see each other? No.

Is there any harm in people sitting in an elderly parents garden having a flask of tea a few metres away from them? No.

It's time to get real, whether you are 2km for your house or 200km away, you can still follow social distancing measures.

I'd put a bet now that the 5th of May will see an easing of restrictions whether its the government, or the people who decide its happening.

common sense right here, if they dont ease any restrictions in particular the ridiculous 2km one i for one most certainly will not be sticking to it this time around, the lock down fanatics will cry foul but the vast majority of people who have done more than enough want to see restrictions lifted.

What Username Guidelines

bluelamp wrote: »

It's time to get real, whether you are 2km for your house or 200km away, you can still follow social distancing measures.

Exactly, I think the government really need to ramp up social distancing importance as a precursor to easing restrictions. Basically, you can do a bit more, but jesus adhere to social distancing.

Hopefully they listen to ECDC as well and add this
https://twitter.com/GeorgeLeeRTE/status/1255847637066137606?s=20

iamwhoiam

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

This.

Every single day at the start, either Simon Harris or Tony Holohan explained that they didn't want to impose harsher restrictions any earlier than they absolutely had to, because they becoming increasingly hard to stick to as time goes on.

How they can now resist saying "I told you so" is beyond me.

If I had the energy I'd go back and see who was clamouring for a total lockdown early on, and see if they're the same ones now screaming for the (non-)lockdown to be lifted because they're sick of it. I bet there'd be a lot of crossover.

I am honestly not sure the Government is in a position to say “ I told you so “ to anyone
They repeatedly said the tracing and testing must be in place and repeatedly said it would be . Of course now it isn’t and is a huge factor in not allowing the restrictions to be lifted
Knowing the HSE and its history I think it’s us who should be shouting “ I told you so”

fatalll

bluelamp wrote: »

It's time be realistic - if rules and regulations are too difficult to follow, people will stop following them. Human nature.

Whether you are a lock down fanatic, or a "just a flu" believer - it's in everyone's interests for these rules to be relaxed slightly or people will stop following any of them.

Will a couple who dont live together continue to not see each other? No.

Is there any harm in people sitting in an elderly parents garden having a flask of tea a few metres away from them? No.

It's time to get real, whether you are 2km for your house or 200km away, you can still follow social distancing measures.

I'd put a bet now that the 5th of May will see an easing of restrictions whether its the government, or the people who decide its happening.

Ah come on now, "too difficult" to stay at home for a few weeks as requested if your lucky and not a HSE worker, Guard, grocery shop worker etc
There are lots of things more difficult if you think about it.

Yes its probably annoying, frustrating etc when people are well and healthy.

People have been lax for last week to 2 weeks, I understand its frustrating etc.

Im going crazy here at home but I'd rather have one proper lockdown than multiple lockdowns over 2 years and have the testing, tracing etc ready to go to get rid of it or reduce it to a number of cases that can be kept on top of.

Id hope we ease out of it slowly or maybe fully if numbers are right down straight away as soon as this happens, obviously with social distancing for a while.

I hope people try and stick with it for as long as needed, I know there is a balance somewhere with the economy but lives can be saved until this can be lessened.

facehugger99

jonnny68 wrote: »

common sense right here, if they dont ease any restrictions in particular the ridiculous 2km one i for one most certainly will not be sticking to it this time around, the lock down fanatics will cry foul but the vast majority of people who have done more than enough want to see restrictions lifted.

Probably the least important of the restrictions in terms of trying to mitigate the economic disaster we are facing.

There are hundreds of SME's which will not survive another 2 or 4 or 6 weeks of lockdown.

Unelected bureaucrats on pubic-sector pay and conditions are flushing the private sector economy down the toilet to try and protect their own reputations.

Sweet.Science

fatalll wrote: »

Ah come on now, "too difficult" to stay at home for a few weeks as requested if your lucky and not a HSE worker, Guard, grocery shop worker etc
There are lots of things more difficult if you think about it.

Yes its probably annoying, frustrating etc when people are well and healthy.

People have been lax for last week to 2 weeks, I understand its frustrating etc.

Im going crazy here at home but I'd rather have one proper lockdown than multiple lockdowns over 2 years and have the testing, tracing etc ready to go to get rid of it or reduce it to a number of cases that can be kept on top of.

Id hope we ease out of it slowly or maybe fully if numbers are right down straight away as soon as this happens, obviously with social distancing for a while.

I hope people try and stick with it for as long as needed, I know there is a balance somewhere with the economy but lives can be saved until this can be lessened.

Hahaha i love this narrative now that people have become lax recently

Exactly the seed that Dr Tony,Leo and Harris have been planting because they have no clue what they are doing .

Come out and tell the truth and say its being extended because we need to see what other countries are doing. Dont be blaming the public

peasant

GazzaL wrote: »

I was chatting to a bank manager yesterday, he said owners of SMEs are crying down the phone to him. The businesses they've worked so hard to build are being destroyed. 50% of our workforce are dependent on handouts from the State. A lot of the temporary job losses are going to become permanent because of the poor decision-making and handing over of power to the HSE. The longer the lockdown continues, the worse it will be.

It is not the lockdown that is causing all this hardship and economic problems ...it is the virus.

Imagine for a minute what would have happened had there never been a lockdown: A lot of really scared people (or those with family in the at-risk groups) would have locked themselves down anyway. The vast majority of people would have tried to isolate / social distance themselves as much as possible while soldiering on with work as little as they could get away with.

This alone would already impact demand and supply severely. These people don't buy new cars, a new suit of clothes and perhaps not even a coffee to go.

And then you have the small minority who consider themselves invincible that goes to the pub, to parties, to mass events ...happily (and most likely unknowingly) spreading the virus far and wide.

After a few weeks and enough infected cases everything would crumble:
- we are all well aware of the consequences of the healthcare system being overwhelmed ..that would happen quickly ...but that's not all:

Depending where the virus strikes and what clusters of people it takes out (they don't all need to die btw...being out sick at home, unable to do anything with a so called "mild" case, they are still not productive or consuming anything) ..the following scenarios are all possible:

- enough key people in the electricity supply can't show up for work ...the lights go out
- enough key people in the banks are sick ...you can't get your money
- enough key people in the food supply chain go missing ...toilet paper will be the least of your worries.

I don't think I need to mention what would happen to society if one or more of the above came to pass.

We have no other choice but to try and manage this. The lockdown (or some form of lockdown) is our best and only solution.
Having said that, we need to make this lockdown policy flexible and "common sense" enough to provide control of the virus while allowing for as much economic activity as is safely possible...plenty of discussion and solution finding still needs to happen on that one.

But we can not just make it "go away" ...not until such time as the virus has gone away for good.

Penfailed

easypazz wrote: »

I agree with you.

But why are you trotting out this nonsense "we are one calendar month behind Spain" then?

Okay, I'll spell it out. It took one month between the first 'confirmed' case in Spain and the first 'confirmed' case in Ireland. Therefore we are one month behind using this as benchmark. If you wish to discount this, that is your prerogative.

bluelamp

fatalll wrote: »

Ah come on now, "too difficult" to stay at home for a few weeks as requested if your lucky and not a HSE worker, Guard, grocery shop worker etc
There are lots of things more difficult if you think about it.

I'm not speaking personally, I've been working through all this thankfully.

I just know that people are done with this - it wont be followed for much longer.

I can see people happy to wear masks in public, continue the social distancing, queue for supermarkets etc.

But the current 2km restrictions stopping people from seeing parents, partners, children, etc is not going to continue regardless, and it is incredibly difficult for some people to follow this in particular.

I think its important for the government to focus on what's actually achievable now and what will be followed.

For example I laugh when I hear people complaining about teenagers congregating together outside. They are teenagers, we were all the same. You wont stop them doing that, and its nearly impossible for a 16 or 17 year olds parents to stop them. We need to focus on what's going to actually work.

fatalll

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Hahaha i love this narrative now that people have become lax recently

Exactly the seed that Dr Tony,Leo and Harris have been planting because they have no clue what they are doing .

Come out and tell the truth and say its being extended because we need to see what other countries are doing. Dont be blaming the public

Not sure what it is like where you live,
but in the last 2 weeks I have seen more cars on the road when I do my walk. I noticed this almost 2 weeks ago, so before Dr tony etc mentioned it.

You may be right on your point on them seeing what other countries do or how they are faring with opening up etc, Which is probably a good thing as it would be stupid not to look at what other countries are doing and how they are coping with different things.
I think when the numbers are right they will ease restrictions.

What do you think they should do?

Sweet.Science

fatalll wrote: »

Not sure what it is like where you live,
but in the last 2 weeks I have seen more cars on the road when I do my walk. I noticed this almost 2 weeks ago, so before Dr tony etc mentioned it.

You may be right on your point on them seeing what other countries do or how they are faring with opening up etc, Which is probably a good thing as it would be stupid not to look at what other countries are doing and how they are coping with different things.
I think when the numbers are right they will ease restrictions.

What do you think they should do?

I want them to be honest . The public have done enough to have restrictions eased . They havent

fatalll

bluelamp wrote: »

I'm not speaking personally, I've been working through all this thankfully.

I just know that people are done with this - it wont be followed for much longer.

I can see people happy to wear masks in public, continue the social distancing, queue for supermarkets etc.

But the current 2km restrictions stopping people from seeing parents, partners, children, etc is not going to continue regardless, and it is incredibly difficult for some people to follow this in particular.

I think its important for the government to focus on what's actually achievable now and what will be followed.

For example I laugh when I hear people complaining about teenagers congregating together outside. They are teenagers, we were all the same. You wont stop them doing that, and its nearly impossible for a 16 or 17 year olds parents to stop them. We need to focus on what's going to actually work.

Yeah you are probably right.

On the 16 or 17 year old thing though, God was a long time ago now for me, parents cop out and dont take responsibility any more in a lot of cases and this is why more young people have no respect for anyone.

brendanL

It looks like were heading for the tragic economy versus lives problem despite everyones efforts. Maybe we reduced things from catastrophic deaths - which is great but now that we're out of that it's hard to juggle what will and won't work.

I'd love to go visit my elderly parents even in the garden- and I see no reason why businesses like argos/woodies etc can't re-open with social distancing in place.
If there isn't an intelligent plan to define what criteria a buisness needs to have in place in order to open I'll be pretty pissed off. Keeping them closed after this much time to prepair and enforce will be bizarre and poor.

I get frustrated when I see the headlines "cafes may re-open by June" ... to be honest most of the cafes near me have already re-opened with social distancing in place, so why the hell is it getting air time, that and another leaving cert student for a 15min interview. The only positivity is the airlines planning for a hopeful June/July slow re-opening.

I've been good, but it's getting hard to hear stories of massive traveller funerals or them coming across from the uk.... or even uk citizens not having to abide by our rules when crossing the border in the north... I was hoping if we locked down, we'd go at it hard and sort this out, but instead we half assed it and didn't change course when issues like exceptions appeared

Lastly, ffs, why will they not give a few days notice on the times of announcements, this just adds to the frustration and fear.

fatalll

Sweet.Science wrote: »

I want them to be honest .

So you think they are being dishonest?
They asked us to follow a few rules, what was dishonest about it?

easypazz

Penfailed wrote: »

Okay, I'll spell it out. It took one month between the first 'confirmed' case in Spain and the first 'confirmed' case in Ireland. Therefore we are one month behind using this as benchmark. If you wish to discount this, that is your prerogative.

You are deflecting away there but the simple fact remains, nobody knows if it struck Ireland or Spain first.

seamusk84

SO whats the craic with tomorrow then?

Will Leo be on the tube at 8:30 PM with another address to the nation? Or can we expect this non-date specific "Road-map" to be revealed earlier in the day?

Will we get word on potential loosening (or not) tomorrow for Tuesday?

Sweet.Science

fatalll wrote: »

So you think they are being dishonest?
They asked us to follow a few rules, what was dishonest about it?

Well we were told if we pull together and get the R0 below one restrictions can be eased. They are below one . They arent being eased .

Right on cue Harris and his cronies saying they've noticed the public becoming lax

Its all to deflect from the fact they made a ball of testing from the very start , and havent been able to do as many a day/week as they promised they would

So we cant ease restrictions because they have failed

We (the public) have done our job

Penfailed

seamusk84 wrote: »

SO whats the craic with tomorrow then?

Will Leo be on the tube at 8:30 PM with another address to the nation? Or can we expect this non-date specific "Road-map" to be revealed earlier in the day?

Will we get word on potential loosening (or not) tomorrow for Tuesday?

No one knows. It's the usual lack of information from the government. We'll find out 'at the appropriate time'...

SAMTALK

bluelamp wrote: »

For example I laugh when I hear people complaining about teenagers congregating together outside. They are teenagers, we were all the same. You wont stop them doing that, and its nearly impossible for a 16 or 17 year olds parents to stop them. We need to focus on what's going to actually work.

We were all the same in normal times not when there is a pandemic.

Surely it's not much to ask that at 16 or 17 they understand how serious this is and to at least stick with regulations when required.

I will say the majority of the youth are doing as asked and also helping in the community but any that are not cannot be excused by the fact they are 16/17.

The parents house these teens so I would expect they can also control them

SAMTALK

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Well we were told if we pull together and get the R0 below one restrictions can be eased. They are below one . They arent being eased .

Right on cue Harris and his cronies saying they've noticed the public becoming lax

Its all to deflect from the fact they made a ball of testing from the very start , and havent been able to do as many a day/week as they promised they would

So we cant ease restrictions because they have failed

We (the public) have done our job

The public have become lax. No not all of them but certainly enough to be worrying.

Let testing be an issue. Let fruit pickers coming into the country be an issue,
but this does not mean that we do not stick to the regulations

drunkmonkey

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Well we were told if we pull together and get the R0 below one restrictions can be eased. They are below one . They arent being eased .

Right on cue Harris and his cronies saying they've noticed the public becoming lax

Its all to deflect from the fact they made a ball of testing from the very start , and havent been able to do as many a day/week as they promised they would

So we cant ease restrictions because they have failed

We (the public) have done our job

We haven't done our job, people with it aren't isolating, I'm starting to think we didn't go hard enough on the lockdown, we should have locked everything down. Gave people time to stock up on food, medicine, booze then shut everything up. We went for a soft lockdown and it didn't work, I don't think extending it will have much effect as it's the wrong tactic from the start.

fatalll

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Well we were told if we pull together and get the R0 below one restrictions can be eased. They are below one . They arent being eased .

Right on cue Harris and his cronies saying they've noticed the public becoming lax

Its all to deflect from the fact they made a ball of testing from the very start , and havent been able to do as many a day/week as they promised they would

So we cant ease restrictions because they have failed

We (the public) have done our job

I agree with you on testing.

They never said "Well we were told if we pull together and get the R0 below one restrictions can be eased"

It was not as simple as you are trying to make out.

There were a few other things as well before they could look at easing restrictions.

"Right on cue Harris and his cronies saying they've noticed the public becoming lax"

I think we were all aware that this has being going on almost 2 weeks and didnt need anyone to tell us.

bluelamp

SAMTALK wrote: »

We were all the same in normal times not when there is a pandemic.

Surely it's not much to ask that at 16 or 17 they understand how serious this is and to at least stick with regulations when required.

I will say the majority of the youth are doing as asked and also helping in the community but any that are not cannot be excused by the fact they are 16/17.

The parents house these teens so I would expect they can also control them

Yes but it's not the point I was making. I'm not talking about a perfect world.

I'm saying that regardless of how hard you try to keep teenagers indoors, how strict a parent should be etc etc, realistically - you wont get complete conformance from all of them.

Regardless of whether or not we are told to stay within 2km of our house past the 5th of May - it wont happen.

Mask wearing is realistic, hand washing is realistic, social distancing is realistic, cocooning for at risk people is realistic.

Keeping young and healthy people within 2km of their house, is not realistic, and its simply not going to happen whether we like it or not.

faceman

Varadkar has given an indirect reference in the Dail today as to when we can expect to be flying again. When quizzed on the refund issue with Ryanair today and went to to say that he would like to see "Ryanair and Aer Lingus back in operation sometime in the summer, sometime in August"

I guess that can be used as an expectation

RugbyLad11

bluelamp wrote: »

It's time be realistic - if rules and regulations are too difficult to follow, people will stop following them. Human nature.

Whether you are a lock down fanatic, or a "just a flu" believer - it's in everyone's interests for these rules to be relaxed slightly or people will stop following any of them.

Will a couple who dont live together continue to not see each other? No.

Is there any harm in people sitting in an elderly parents garden having a flask of tea a few metres away from them? No.

It's time to get real, whether you are 2km for your house or 200km away, you can still follow social distancing measures.

I'd put a bet now that the 5th of May will see an easing of restrictions whether its the government, or the people who decide its happening.

You hit the nail on the head, there is only so long you can stop a couple from seeing each other.

I haven't seen my partner in over a month, it has been so difficult but I was able to cope because I truly believed that we would get some ease of restrictions on the 5th...Because r0 below 1, most new cases confined to nursing homes and ICU numbers well below capacity.

But now if there is no change after the 5th people will take it into their own hands and see their loved ones.

Sweet.Science

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We haven't done our job, people with it aren't isolating, I'm starting to think we didn't go hard enough on the lockdown, we should have locked everything down. Gave people time to stock up on food, medicine, booze then shut everything up. We went for a soft lockdown and it didn't work, I don't think extending it will have much effect as it's the wrong tactic from the start.

People have it and aren't isolating. i assume you cant back that up with any evidence at all

RugbyLad11

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Exactly, I think the government really need to ramp up social distancing importance as a precursor to easing restrictions. Basically, you can do a bit more, but jesus adhere to social distancing.

Hopefully they listen to ECDC as well and add this
https://twitter.com/GeorgeLeeRTE/status/1255847637066137606?s=20

Now that ECDC recommend the use of face masks how can the HSE not encourage us to use them now?