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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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iamwhoiam

https://extra.ie/2020/04/28/news/irish-news/covid-19-was-present-in-irish-hopitals-two-weeks-before-first-positive-test
Four patients treated in ICU in the weeks leading up to the first positive COVID-19 test later tested positive for the disease according to Virgin Media News.

The first positive test in Ireland was confirmed on the 29th of February, however, it has now been reported that the virus was in fact present in Ireland for some time before that date

I wonder how true this is ? But it seems to have been verified

KrustyUCC

Nermal wrote: »

I assume he just forgot to add consideration of the economic impacts to the list?

Yes 'just forgot'

I assume opening up the economy has to be part of the plan

GazzaL

Scruff101 wrote: »

How do you know? He's only giving covid figures. There's other people taking up ICU beds for other non covid reasons so we don't know the capacity.

Hopefully an intrepid journalist will ask him to clarify later today so!

addaword

Discodog wrote: »

Listening to Newstalk. There have been a succession of contributors warning that deaths from lack of routine medicine will kill more than Covid.

And I know a few people , one in pain, waiting on appointments with consultants but they cannot visit or get the appointment during the lockdown. Everything on "hold".

Scruff101

GazzaL wrote: »

Hopefully an intrepid journalist will ask him to clarify later today so!

Yes it would actually be good to know. It sounds manageable when he just gives the covid ICU figures but when you add in the more regular ICU admissions it might not be such a positive figure.

HeidiHeidi

Deleted User wrote: »

Imagine the threads if the government had shut down the country when the rest of Europe was wide open

This.

Every single day at the start, either Simon Harris or Tony Holohan explained that they didn't want to impose harsher restrictions any earlier than they absolutely had to, because they becoming increasingly hard to stick to as time goes on.

How they can now resist saying "I told you so" is beyond me.

If I had the energy I'd go back and see who was clamouring for a total lockdown early on, and see if they're the same ones now screaming for the (non-)lockdown to be lifted because they're sick of it. I bet there'd be a lot of crossover.

robbiezero

easypazz wrote: »

Good to see. There were quite a few on here trying to pretend this is not a major concern. Normally the same ones that like to pretend we are not in lockdown either.

Bear in mind for some people for whom most human interaction is conducted via technology, these restrictions would have very little impact on their lives.

easypazz

Penfailed wrote: »

@easyspaz

Penfailed wrote: »

@easyspaz, here's another post that quoted your 'Source?' post.

None of this supports your spurious claim that it stuck Spain first and that we are 1 calendar month behind.

You are incorrectly using the date of first confirmed date as being the date it struck a country.

Nobody knows when it "struck" Spain, or Ireland, or anywhere else for that matter.

prunudo

iamwhoiam wrote: »

https://extra.ie/2020/04/28/news/irish-news/covid-19-was-present-in-irish-hopitals-two-weeks-before-first-positive-test
Four patients treated in ICU in the weeks leading up to the first positive COVID-19 test later tested positive for the disease according to Virgin Media News.

The first positive test in Ireland was confirmed on the 29th of February, however, it has now been reported that the virus was in fact present in Ireland for some time before that date

I wonder how true this is ? But it seems to have been verified

I saw that the other night but haven't seen it reported by anyone else. It wouldn't surprise me if it is true.

GazzaL

I was chatting to a bank manager yesterday, he said owners of SMEs are crying down the phone to him. The businesses they've worked so hard to build are being destroyed. 50% of our workforce are dependent on handouts from the State. A lot of the temporary job losses are going to become permanent because of the poor decision-making and handing over of power to the HSE. The longer the lockdown continues, the worse it will be.

the kelt

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

This.

Every single day at the start, either Simon Harris or Tony Holohan explained that they didn't want to impose harsher restrictions any earlier than they absolutely had to, because they becoming increasingly hard to stick to as time goes on.

How they can now resist saying "I told you so" is beyond me.

If I had the energy I'd go back and see who was clamouring for a total lockdown early on, and see if they're the same ones now screaming for the (non-)lockdown to be lifted because they're sick of it. I bet there'd be a lot of crossover.

I think if you look back at what the government said they were going to do over the past few weeks in regards to following south korea, ramping up testing, contact tracing, the on/off/on/ off again situation in regards to restrictions, the transparency of information being release and then not, etc etc i dont think the government are going to be in any position to say "i told you so"

[Deleted User]

Multipass wrote: »

Well that rankles- unlucky to have been made unemployed just before all of this, my household is 2 adults living on 240 total.. Doesn’t feel a damn like we’re all in this together. I can already predict in the coming recession being told how we all partied on 350 each.

This seems hugely unfair and I would feel very hard done by if I was you.
My 21 year old nephew who lives at home and was working at weekends only as a pizza delivery driver earning €120 is now on €350 Covid payment. He was asked to go back to work last weekend and said "no thanks as I will lose my €350 Covid payment".

THIS alone is going to cripple Social Welfare for the next few years and benefits will be scrapped for ordinary people who are unemployed , seeking Diability Allowance or Invalidity Pension. It will get so much harder to secure these payments in the next few years.

iamwhoiam

GazzaL wrote: »

I was chatting to a bank manager yesterday, he said owners of SMEs are crying down the phone to him. The businesses they've worked so hard to build are being destroyed. 50% of our workforce are dependent on handouts from the State. A lot of the temporary job losses are going to become permanent because of the poor decision-making and handing over of power to the HSE. The longer the lockdown continues, the worse it will be.

I know two brothers who worked so hard to set up a business , over the years with hard grind they were employing before lockdown at least 40-50 people
They are now struggling hard and if they cannot open soon they cannot sustain it and the 50 will be unemployed and the business gone

lawrencesummers

GazzaL wrote: »

I was chatting to a bank manager yesterday, he said owners of SMEs are crying down the phone to him. The businesses they've worked so hard to build are being destroyed. 50% of our workforce are dependent on handouts from the State. A lot of the temporary job losses are going to become permanent because of the poor decision-making and handing over of power to the HSE. The longer the lockdown continues, the worse it will be.

I wasn’t chatting to a HSE nurse yesterday.

She’s dead.

Covid-19.

easypazz

iamwhoiam wrote: »

https://extra.ie/2020/04/28/news/irish-news/covid-19-was-present-in-irish-hopitals-two-weeks-before-first-positive-test
Four patients treated in ICU in the weeks leading up to the first positive COVID-19 test later tested positive for the disease according to Virgin Media News.

The first positive test in Ireland was confirmed on the 29th of February, however, it has now been reported that the virus was in fact present in Ireland for some time before that date

I wonder how true this is ? But it seems to have been verified

My point exactly. Nobody knows when it "struck" here, Spain or anywhere.

This rubbish that "we are one calendar month behind Spain" or anybody else for that matter, is pure conjecture.

GazzaL

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I wasn’t chatting to a HSE nurse yesterday.

She’s dead.

Covid-19.

That's a pretty disgusting post tbh.

lawrencesummers

GazzaL wrote: »

That's a pretty disgusting post tbh.

Unfortunately it’s reality, and the posts that belittle the death that this is inflicting on multiple families around the country while advocating a return for money reasons are far more disgusting. Tbh.

Economies recover.

Dead people dont.

facehugger99

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Unfortunately it’s reality, and the posts that belittle the death that this is inflicting on multiple families around the country while advocating a return for money reasons are far more disgusting. Tbh.

It's not though, it's just some bollox you made up in an effort to sound clever, which backfired badly.

lawrencesummers

facehugger99 wrote: »

It's not though, it's just some bollox you made up in an effort to sound clever, which backfired badly.

So nobody’s dying, and I’m just making this up?

That funeral I should have gone to a forthright ago was a bluff was it?

boring accountant

Is the death of a few healthcare workers from natural causes supposed to justify the impoverishment of an entire country? I was astounded by the number of posters earlier in the thread who admitted to being public sector workers. I’d like to see lockdowners putting their money where their mouth is but I suspect many are insulated from the economic catastrophe looming.

easypazz

lawrencesummers wrote: »

So nobody’s dying, and I’m just making this up?

That funeral I should have gone to a forthright ago was a bluff was it?

Stoops even lower.

facehugger99

lawrencesummers wrote: »

So nobody’s dying, and I’m just making this up?

That funeral I should have gone to a forthright ago was a bluff was it?

Put the shovel down.

You're embarrassing yourself further.

lawrencesummers

boring accountant wrote: »

Is the death of a few healthcare workers from natural causes supposed to justify the impoverishment of an entire country? I was astounded by the number of posters earlier in the thread who admitted to being public sector workers. I’d like to see lockdowners putting their money where their mouth is but I suspect many are insulated from the economic catastrophe looming.

If your an accountant As your name suggests why don’t you put a figure on it?

How many dead healthcare workers is acceptable to you because some businesses are hitting a bump in the road????

addaword

People will die from suicide, poverty, lack of hse resources, other medical reasons the more months this drags on and the economy destroyed.

Nermal

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Unfortunately it’s reality, and the posts that belittle the death that this is inflicting on multiple families around the country while advocating a return for money reasons are far more disgusting. Tbh.

Economies recover.

Dead people dont.

Do you think this is some sort of rhetorical masterstroke? People die, so what? We deal with it reasonably, it's part of life.

If I was dying of a rare disease, and there was a drug that could save my life, if it cost more than €45,000 for each year of my life saved, Simon Harris would give my family his condolences and tell the HSE not to sign the cheque.

That's national policy. We did 'put a figure on it' as you asked another poster to do.

Did you have a problem with that, before it was seemingly suspended for this collective insanity?

Did you even know about it?

Penfailed

easypazz wrote: »

None of this supports your spurious claim that it stuck Spain first and that we are 1 calendar month behind.

You are incorrectly using the date of first confirmed date as being the date it struck a country.

Nobody knows when it "struck" Spain, or Ireland, or anywhere else for that matter.

'Stuck'? Eh?

No one knows 'exactly' when the virus arrived anywhere. It's not a spurious claim. The only real gauge for when it arrived is when the first case was confirmed. You are trying to score internet points again. Well done.

bluelamp

It's time be realistic - if rules and regulations are too difficult to follow, people will stop following them. Human nature.

Whether you are a lock down fanatic, or a "just a flu" believer - it's in everyone's interests for these rules to be relaxed slightly or people will stop following any of them.

Will a couple who dont live together continue to not see each other? No.

Is there any harm in people sitting in an elderly parents garden having a flask of tea a few metres away from them? No.

It's time to get real, whether you are 2km for your house or 200km away, you can still follow social distancing measures.

I'd put a bet now that the 5th of May will see an easing of restrictions whether its the government, or the people who decide its happening.

Balf

seamus wrote: »

There won't be dates at all, as the plan will be goal-driven, not date-driven.

Then it will be unrealistic, and it won't stick.

seamus wrote: »

There is a concerted effort within our media, to undermine the state's effort and controlling this outbreak. I have no idea where it's coming from, but it's there. DOB's media are bad for it, but there are worse ones.

Its more that there are a slate of issues, of increasing severity the longer the lockdown goes on, that Government plans need to acknowledge.

They can try to dodge those issues, and talk as if all that matters is a limited set of indicators relating to the direct impact of Covid 19.

But we know the impacts are wider than that. There's no need for conspiracy to explain why these questions are emerging. You can't run the world as if it was only a triage ward.

easypazz

lawrencesummers wrote: »

If your an accountant As your name suggests why don’t you put a figure on it?

How many dead healthcare workers is acceptable to you because some businesses are hitting a bump in the road????

You obviously missed that the government are including the risk of secondary morbidity as part of the relaxations of restrictions criteria.

Your little effort has backfired badly, and you are making a fool of yourself, same as the ones trying to pretend Ireland is not in a lockdown.

The risk of secondary morbidity and mortality, due to the restrictions themselves.

Hooked

bluelamp wrote: »

It's time be realistic - if rules and regulations are too difficult to follow, people will stop following them. Human nature.

Whether you are a lock down fanatic, or a "just a flu" believer - it's in everyone's interests for these rules to be relaxed slightly or people will stop following any of them.

Will a couple who dont live together continue to not see each other? No.

Is there any harm in people sitting in an elderly parents garden having a flask of tea a few metres away from them? No.

It's time to get real, whether you are 2km for your house or 200km away, you can still follow social distancing measures.

I'd put a bet now that the 5th of May will see an easing of restrictions whether its the government, or the people who decide its happening.

Nail on the f-ing head!