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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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lawrencesummers

GazzaL wrote: »

I was chatting to a bank manager yesterday, he said owners of SMEs are crying down the phone to him. The businesses they've worked so hard to build are being destroyed. 50% of our workforce are dependent on handouts from the State. A lot of the temporary job losses are going to become permanent because of the poor decision-making and handing over of power to the HSE. The longer the lockdown continues, the worse it will be.

I wasn’t chatting to a HSE nurse yesterday.

She’s dead.

Covid-19.

iamwhoiam

GazzaL wrote: »

I was chatting to a bank manager yesterday, he said owners of SMEs are crying down the phone to him. The businesses they've worked so hard to build are being destroyed. 50% of our workforce are dependent on handouts from the State. A lot of the temporary job losses are going to become permanent because of the poor decision-making and handing over of power to the HSE. The longer the lockdown continues, the worse it will be.

I know two brothers who worked so hard to set up a business , over the years with hard grind they were employing before lockdown at least 40-50 people
They are now struggling hard and if they cannot open soon they cannot sustain it and the 50 will be unemployed and the business gone

[Deleted User]

Multipass wrote: »

Well that rankles- unlucky to have been made unemployed just before all of this, my household is 2 adults living on 240 total.. Doesn’t feel a damn like we’re all in this together. I can already predict in the coming recession being told how we all partied on 350 each.

This seems hugely unfair and I would feel very hard done by if I was you.
My 21 year old nephew who lives at home and was working at weekends only as a pizza delivery driver earning €120 is now on €350 Covid payment. He was asked to go back to work last weekend and said "no thanks as I will lose my €350 Covid payment".

THIS alone is going to cripple Social Welfare for the next few years and benefits will be scrapped for ordinary people who are unemployed , seeking Diability Allowance or Invalidity Pension. It will get so much harder to secure these payments in the next few years.

the kelt

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

This.

Every single day at the start, either Simon Harris or Tony Holohan explained that they didn't want to impose harsher restrictions any earlier than they absolutely had to, because they becoming increasingly hard to stick to as time goes on.

How they can now resist saying "I told you so" is beyond me.

If I had the energy I'd go back and see who was clamouring for a total lockdown early on, and see if they're the same ones now screaming for the (non-)lockdown to be lifted because they're sick of it. I bet there'd be a lot of crossover.

I think if you look back at what the government said they were going to do over the past few weeks in regards to following south korea, ramping up testing, contact tracing, the on/off/on/ off again situation in regards to restrictions, the transparency of information being release and then not, etc etc i dont think the government are going to be in any position to say "i told you so"

GazzaL

I was chatting to a bank manager yesterday, he said owners of SMEs are crying down the phone to him. The businesses they've worked so hard to build are being destroyed. 50% of our workforce are dependent on handouts from the State. A lot of the temporary job losses are going to become permanent because of the poor decision-making and handing over of power to the HSE. The longer the lockdown continues, the worse it will be.

prunudo

iamwhoiam wrote: »

https://extra.ie/2020/04/28/news/irish-news/covid-19-was-present-in-irish-hopitals-two-weeks-before-first-positive-test
Four patients treated in ICU in the weeks leading up to the first positive COVID-19 test later tested positive for the disease according to Virgin Media News.

The first positive test in Ireland was confirmed on the 29th of February, however, it has now been reported that the virus was in fact present in Ireland for some time before that date

I wonder how true this is ? But it seems to have been verified

I saw that the other night but haven't seen it reported by anyone else. It wouldn't surprise me if it is true.

easypazz

Penfailed wrote: »

@easyspaz

Penfailed wrote: »

@easyspaz, here's another post that quoted your 'Source?' post.

None of this supports your spurious claim that it stuck Spain first and that we are 1 calendar month behind.

You are incorrectly using the date of first confirmed date as being the date it struck a country.

Nobody knows when it "struck" Spain, or Ireland, or anywhere else for that matter.

robbiezero

easypazz wrote: »

Good to see. There were quite a few on here trying to pretend this is not a major concern. Normally the same ones that like to pretend we are not in lockdown either.

Bear in mind for some people for whom most human interaction is conducted via technology, these restrictions would have very little impact on their lives.

HeidiHeidi

Deleted User wrote: »

Imagine the threads if the government had shut down the country when the rest of Europe was wide open

This.

Every single day at the start, either Simon Harris or Tony Holohan explained that they didn't want to impose harsher restrictions any earlier than they absolutely had to, because they becoming increasingly hard to stick to as time goes on.

How they can now resist saying "I told you so" is beyond me.

If I had the energy I'd go back and see who was clamouring for a total lockdown early on, and see if they're the same ones now screaming for the (non-)lockdown to be lifted because they're sick of it. I bet there'd be a lot of crossover.

Scruff101

GazzaL wrote: »

Hopefully an intrepid journalist will ask him to clarify later today so!

Yes it would actually be good to know. It sounds manageable when he just gives the covid ICU figures but when you add in the more regular ICU admissions it might not be such a positive figure.

addaword

Discodog wrote: »

Listening to Newstalk. There have been a succession of contributors warning that deaths from lack of routine medicine will kill more than Covid.

And I know a few people , one in pain, waiting on appointments with consultants but they cannot visit or get the appointment during the lockdown. Everything on "hold".

GazzaL

Scruff101 wrote: »

How do you know? He's only giving covid figures. There's other people taking up ICU beds for other non covid reasons so we don't know the capacity.

Hopefully an intrepid journalist will ask him to clarify later today so!

KrustyUCC

Nermal wrote: »

I assume he just forgot to add consideration of the economic impacts to the list?

Yes 'just forgot'

I assume opening up the economy has to be part of the plan

iamwhoiam

https://extra.ie/2020/04/28/news/irish-news/covid-19-was-present-in-irish-hopitals-two-weeks-before-first-positive-test
Four patients treated in ICU in the weeks leading up to the first positive COVID-19 test later tested positive for the disease according to Virgin Media News.

The first positive test in Ireland was confirmed on the 29th of February, however, it has now been reported that the virus was in fact present in Ireland for some time before that date

I wonder how true this is ? But it seems to have been verified

CalamariFritti

seamus wrote: »

There won't be dates at all, as the plan will be goal-driven, not date-driven.

It'll be more like, "When number X has been at or below value Y for two consecutive weeks, then we will move to phase 2. Phase 2 will last for at least four weeks. At the end of these four weeks if <...> criteria are met, we will move to phase 3. If not, we remain in phase 2 for two more weeks. If the figures regress, we will step back to phase 1".

And so on.

The people agonising here over tiny statements is a bit bizarre. Journalists are attempting to draw the CMO on exact figures so that they have a story to write. So that they have a stick to beat him with later on.

This is like asking an army general when he thinks his troops should withdraw, knowing full well that the final decision does not rest with him.

It would be very irresponsible for him to give specifics to the press, before the government have presented a plan. He is not the one making the decisions, he is providing advice. If he says one thing, and the government presents something slightly different, then the media will hammer a wedge into that gap and undermine public confidence in the lockdown.

There is a concerted effort within our media, to undermine the state's effort and controlling this outbreak. I have no idea where it's coming from, but it's there. DOB's media are bad for it, but there are worse ones.

I have no problem with that. Should make sense to anyone.

However when asked about what X and Y are that question was also deliberately dodged ('as low as possible'). Thats simply not good enough. This not some small little thingy where 'it'll be grand sure', 'we'll see'. This is the social and economical lockdown of an entire country we're talking about. It's just not good enough. Its lazy and arrogant to boot. You gonna lose the people with that kind of stuff and then you're in a real problem spot.

growleaves

the kelt wrote: »

What do people want, say nothing, ask no questions, follow and baa like sheep, clap when instructed to?

Apparently that is what many people want.

Discodog

Listening to Newstalk. There have been a succession of contributors warning that deaths from lack of routine medicine will kill more than Covid.

Nermal

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Changes will be made every two to four weeks but the Government will intervene if things are going off track and some elements would be reintroduced.

Mr Varadkar said he hopes to put the plan before Cabinet tomorrow to be signed off on.

He said there were five key priorities to be considered in lifting the restrictions:

Progress of the disease
Healthcare capacity and resilience
Testing and contact tracing capacity
Ability to shield and care for at-risk groups
Risk of secondary morbidity due to the restrictions themselves

I assume he just forgot to add consideration of the economic impacts to the list?

Scruff101

GazzaL wrote: »

He was asked for a number and avoided giving it. We're way below ICU capacity at the moment.

How do you know? He's only giving covid figures. There's other people taking up ICU beds for other non covid reasons so we don't know the capacity.

Penfailed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

@easyspaz, here's another post that quoted your 'Source?' post.

GazzaL

KrustyUCC wrote: »

It's going to be a big big issue as this goes on

Peoples mental health can be fragile

Taking the Irish Times article from the other day as being four phased

Everything going well apparently travel beyond 20km is in phase 4

So that's 4 X 2 weeks = 2 months

2 months more of not seeing friends, family, other half's not living together

If some phases are a month in between then that's further out

Not seeing friends, family, other half's not living together for a minimum of 4 months will be extremely hard on people

2 months down the line at best before you could even go to a garden, social distance but yet see people

Minimum 4 months where a single father may not be able to see his child.

Penfailed

Penfailed wrote: »

Jesus. Seriously? A quick Google would tell you that the first confirmed case in Spain was on the 31st of January. The first confirmed case in Ireland was the 28th of February. We're one calendar month behind them.

@easyspaz

the kelt

polesheep wrote: »

Absolute nonsense! Would you prefer to live in North Korea? Questioning the actions of the state is a vastly different thing to undermining it. In my opinion, journalists have been too slow to ask the right questions.

Exactly!!

Theres no effort to undermine the government, absoloute rubbish.

The fact is there is an abundance of questions to be asked and the longer the fudge and mixed messages continue the more journalists etc are beginning to ask whats going on.

What do people want, say nothing, ask no questions, follow and baa like sheep, clap when instructed to?

Penfailed

easypazz wrote: »

Cop out. Never saw anything about it and I have been following this thread quite closely.

Are you for real? Hang on, I'll go back and find it and quote myself. You could easily have a look through my previous posts or scan back through the thread but you choose to waste my time. I'll play along though.

GazzaL

seamus wrote: »

I'm mainly talking about stuff like this; https://twitter.com/thejournal_ie/status/1255551168731906054

And the Keelings rubbish. The spread of false or misleading information to create a people -v- government sentiment.

But there are also parts of the open media who are deliberately overstating or misstating things in order to wind people up.

So RTE are deliberately spreading false or misleading information to create a people -v- government sentiment? Come off it :pac:

KrustyUCC

easypazz wrote: »

Good to see. There were quite a few on here trying to pretend this is not a major concern. Normally the same ones that like to pretend we are not in lockdown either.

It's going to be a big big issue as this goes on

Peoples mental health can be fragile

Taking the Irish Times article from the other day as being four phased

Everything going well apparently travel beyond 20km is in phase 4

So that's 4 X 2 weeks = 2 months

2 months more of not seeing friends, family, other half's not living together

If some phases are a month in between then that's further out

Not seeing friends, family, other half's not living together for a minimum of 4 months will be extremely hard on people

2 months down the line at best before you could even go to a garden, social distance but yet see people

polesheep

seamus wrote: »

I'm mainly talking about stuff like this; https://twitter.com/thejournal_ie/status/1255551168731906054

And the Keelings rubbish. The spread of false or misleading information to create a people -v- government sentiment.

But there are also parts of the open media who are deliberately overstating or misstating things in order to wind people up.

More nonsense. RTE regularly use out-of-date and poorly edited footage. It says more about how bad RTE is than any grand plan to undermine the state. You should take back the assertion, I don't think you actually really believe it yourself.

seamus

polesheep wrote: »

Absolute nonsense! Would you prefer to live in North Korea? Questioning the actions of the state is a vastly different thing to undermining it. In my opinion, journalists have been too slow to ask the right questions.

I'm mainly talking about stuff like this; https://twitter.com/thejournal_ie/status/1255551168731906054

And the Keelings rubbish. The spread of false or misleading information to create a people -v- government sentiment.

But there are also parts of the open media who are deliberately overstating or misstating things in order to wind people up.

polesheep

seamus wrote: »

There won't be dates at all, as the plan will be goal-driven, not date-driven.

It'll be more like, "When number X has been at or below value Y for two consecutive weeks, then we will move to phase 2. Phase 2 will last for at least four weeks. At the end of these four weeks if <...> criteria are met, we will move to phase 3. If not, we remain in phase 2 for two more weeks. If the figures regress, we will step back to phase 1".

And so on.

The people agonising here over tiny statements is a bit bizarre. Journalists are attempting to draw the CMO on exact figures so that they have a story to write. So that they have a stick to beat him with later on.

This is like asking an army general when he thinks his troops should withdraw, knowing full well that the final decision does not rest with him.

It would be very irresponsible for him to give specifics to the press, before the government have presented a plan. He is not the one making the decisions, he is providing advice. If he says one thing, and the government presents something slightly different, then the media will hammer a wedge into that gap and undermine public confidence in the lockdown.

There is a concerted effort within our media, to undermine the state's effort and controlling this outbreak. I have no idea where it's coming from, but it's there. DOB's media are bad for it, but there are worse ones.

Absolute nonsense! Would you prefer to live in North Korea? Questioning the actions of the state is a vastly different thing to undermining it. In my opinion, journalists have been too slow to ask the right questions.

easypazz

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Changes will be made every two to four weeks but the Government will intervene if things are going off track and some elements would be reintroduced.

Mr Varadkar said he hopes to put the plan before Cabinet tomorrow to be signed off on.

He said there were five key priorities to be considered in lifting the restrictions:

Progress of the disease
Healthcare capacity and resilience
Testing and contact tracing capacity
Ability to shield and care for at-risk groups
Risk of secondary morbidity due to the restrictions themselves

Good to see. There were quite a few on here trying to pretend this is not a major concern. Normally the same ones that like to pretend we are not in lockdown either.