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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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drunkmonkey

GazzaL wrote: »

LOL @ the people trying to denigrate Elon Musk. He's probably achieved more this morning than most people have in a month.

He's probably got high in fairness.

easypazz

Penfailed wrote: »

Have a read back. I posted it earlier. Someone else did too.

Cop out. Never saw anything about it and I have been following this thread quite closely.

GazzaL

seamus wrote: »

There won't be dates at all, as the plan will be goal-driven, not date-driven.

It'll be more like, "When number X has been at or below value Y for two consecutive weeks, then we will move to phase 2. Phase 2 will last for at least four weeks. At the end of these four weeks if <...> criteria are met, we will move to phase 3. If not, we remain in phase 2 for two more weeks. If the figures regress, we will step back to phase 1".

And so on.

The people agonising here over tiny statements is a bit bizarre. Journalists are attempting to draw the CMO on exact figures so that they have a story to write. So that they have a stick to beat him with later on.

This is like asking an army general when he thinks his troops should withdraw, knowing full well that the final decision does not rest with him.

It would be very irresponsible for him to give specifics to the press, before the government have presented a plan. He is not the one making the decisions, he is providing advice. If he says one thing, and the government presents something slightly different, then the media will hammer a wedge into that gap and undermine public confidence in the lockdown.

There is a concerted effort within our media, to undermine the state's effort and controlling this outbreak. I have no idea where it's coming from, but it's there. DOB's media are bad for it, but there are worse ones.

If there's no dates, it's not a plan.

[Deleted User]

GazzaL wrote: »

LOL @ the people trying to denigrate Elon Musk. He's probably achieved more this morning than most people have in a month.

Laudable achievements do not make him right

easypazz

GazzaL wrote: »

If there's no dates, it's not a plan.

Ah now that's harsh, it is a plan.

Its called the "kick the can down the road for another few weeks and see what happens next" plan.

lawrencesummers

GazzaL wrote: »

LOL @ the people trying to denigrate Elon Musk. He's probably achieved more this morning than most people have in a month.

Doubtful.

He lives in bel air, it’s 5am there he’s either asleep or just getting up and I’ve already eaten a large toblerone for breakfast, watched two episodes of the wire, drank 3 cups of tea and an espresso, took some chicken out of the freezer for dinner and had a nap. And I haven’t called anyone a paedophile

He won’t catch Me till at least tea time.

nj27

I'm not holding out much hope for the announcement tomorrow as that seems to lead to inevitable disappointment, but at the back of the mind I am wondering if they've been saying that the numbers aren't at the level required for relaxing the restrictions in order bolster compliance after reports of a slip in standards. Probably just wishful thinking.

easypazz

I see Leo has confirmed to the Dail today that we are in lockdown.

Yet there are still people on here trying to pretend its not a lockdown.

"People want to know when things are going to go back to the new normal, and I can assure them that a plan is being developed to ease the lockdown, a roadmap to reopen Ireland, a roadmap to what will be a new normal,"

Gael23

When does the legislation allowing these measures expire?

SEPT 23 1989

two to four weeks more Leo says

seamus

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

two to four weeks more Leo says

That's not what he said. He said in the easing of restrictions, measures will be reviewed and changed if necessary every two to four weeks.

KrustyUCC

Changes will be made every two to four weeks but the Government will intervene if things are going off track and some elements would be reintroduced.

Mr Varadkar said he hopes to put the plan before Cabinet tomorrow to be signed off on.

He said there were five key priorities to be considered in lifting the restrictions:

Progress of the disease
Healthcare capacity and resilience
Testing and contact tracing capacity
Ability to shield and care for at-risk groups
Risk of secondary morbidity due to the restrictions themselves

Nermal

Deleted User wrote: »

Laudable achievements do not make him right

It takes iconoclasts to challenge institutional consensus and inertia.

It won't come from within the institutions themselves.

Stormyteacup

Deleted User wrote: »

Presume the consultant was McConkey. Heard him talk about this idea - take an additional 4-6 weeks of even tougher lockdown, but come out the other side to a widescale re-opening internally as we would be at the elimination phase. Would have to align with NI and have much more stringent Quarantine on entry in place once the lockdown is complete. Has merits, but I don't think its workable

Yes, likely McConkey.

Cillian De Gascun said in IT "It's not because of testing that we can't lift the restrictions". He wants to ensure an R0 value less than 1 for "a long period of time"

The goalposts have definitely moved - question is why? Do they see now see elimination as a possibility.

easypazz

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Changes will be made every two to four weeks but the Government will intervene if things are going off track and some elements would be reintroduced.

Mr Varadkar said he hopes to put the plan before Cabinet tomorrow to be signed off on.

He said there were five key priorities to be considered in lifting the restrictions:

Progress of the disease
Healthcare capacity and resilience
Testing and contact tracing capacity
Ability to shield and care for at-risk groups
Risk of secondary morbidity due to the restrictions themselves

Good to see. There were quite a few on here trying to pretend this is not a major concern. Normally the same ones that like to pretend we are not in lockdown either.

polesheep

seamus wrote: »

There won't be dates at all, as the plan will be goal-driven, not date-driven.

It'll be more like, "When number X has been at or below value Y for two consecutive weeks, then we will move to phase 2. Phase 2 will last for at least four weeks. At the end of these four weeks if <...> criteria are met, we will move to phase 3. If not, we remain in phase 2 for two more weeks. If the figures regress, we will step back to phase 1".

And so on.

The people agonising here over tiny statements is a bit bizarre. Journalists are attempting to draw the CMO on exact figures so that they have a story to write. So that they have a stick to beat him with later on.

This is like asking an army general when he thinks his troops should withdraw, knowing full well that the final decision does not rest with him.

It would be very irresponsible for him to give specifics to the press, before the government have presented a plan. He is not the one making the decisions, he is providing advice. If he says one thing, and the government presents something slightly different, then the media will hammer a wedge into that gap and undermine public confidence in the lockdown.

There is a concerted effort within our media, to undermine the state's effort and controlling this outbreak. I have no idea where it's coming from, but it's there. DOB's media are bad for it, but there are worse ones.

Absolute nonsense! Would you prefer to live in North Korea? Questioning the actions of the state is a vastly different thing to undermining it. In my opinion, journalists have been too slow to ask the right questions.

seamus

polesheep wrote: »

Absolute nonsense! Would you prefer to live in North Korea? Questioning the actions of the state is a vastly different thing to undermining it. In my opinion, journalists have been too slow to ask the right questions.

I'm mainly talking about stuff like this; https://twitter.com/thejournal_ie/status/1255551168731906054

And the Keelings rubbish. The spread of false or misleading information to create a people -v- government sentiment.

But there are also parts of the open media who are deliberately overstating or misstating things in order to wind people up.

polesheep

seamus wrote: »

I'm mainly talking about stuff like this; https://twitter.com/thejournal_ie/status/1255551168731906054

And the Keelings rubbish. The spread of false or misleading information to create a people -v- government sentiment.

But there are also parts of the open media who are deliberately overstating or misstating things in order to wind people up.

More nonsense. RTE regularly use out-of-date and poorly edited footage. It says more about how bad RTE is than any grand plan to undermine the state. You should take back the assertion, I don't think you actually really believe it yourself.

KrustyUCC

easypazz wrote: »

Good to see. There were quite a few on here trying to pretend this is not a major concern. Normally the same ones that like to pretend we are not in lockdown either.

It's going to be a big big issue as this goes on

Peoples mental health can be fragile

Taking the Irish Times article from the other day as being four phased

Everything going well apparently travel beyond 20km is in phase 4

So that's 4 X 2 weeks = 2 months

2 months more of not seeing friends, family, other half's not living together

If some phases are a month in between then that's further out

Not seeing friends, family, other half's not living together for a minimum of 4 months will be extremely hard on people

2 months down the line at best before you could even go to a garden, social distance but yet see people

GazzaL

seamus wrote: »

I'm mainly talking about stuff like this; https://twitter.com/thejournal_ie/status/1255551168731906054

And the Keelings rubbish. The spread of false or misleading information to create a people -v- government sentiment.

But there are also parts of the open media who are deliberately overstating or misstating things in order to wind people up.

So RTE are deliberately spreading false or misleading information to create a people -v- government sentiment? Come off it :pac:

Penfailed

easypazz wrote: »

Cop out. Never saw anything about it and I have been following this thread quite closely.

Are you for real? Hang on, I'll go back and find it and quote myself. You could easily have a look through my previous posts or scan back through the thread but you choose to waste my time. I'll play along though.

the kelt

polesheep wrote: »

Absolute nonsense! Would you prefer to live in North Korea? Questioning the actions of the state is a vastly different thing to undermining it. In my opinion, journalists have been too slow to ask the right questions.

Exactly!!

Theres no effort to undermine the government, absoloute rubbish.

The fact is there is an abundance of questions to be asked and the longer the fudge and mixed messages continue the more journalists etc are beginning to ask whats going on.

What do people want, say nothing, ask no questions, follow and baa like sheep, clap when instructed to?

Penfailed

Penfailed wrote: »

Jesus. Seriously? A quick Google would tell you that the first confirmed case in Spain was on the 31st of January. The first confirmed case in Ireland was the 28th of February. We're one calendar month behind them.

@easyspaz

GazzaL

KrustyUCC wrote: »

It's going to be a big big issue as this goes on

Peoples mental health can be fragile

Taking the Irish Times article from the other day as being four phased

Everything going well apparently travel beyond 20km is in phase 4

So that's 4 X 2 weeks = 2 months

2 months more of not seeing friends, family, other half's not living together

If some phases are a month in between then that's further out

Not seeing friends, family, other half's not living together for a minimum of 4 months will be extremely hard on people

2 months down the line at best before you could even go to a garden, social distance but yet see people

Minimum 4 months where a single father may not be able to see his child.

Penfailed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

@easyspaz, here's another post that quoted your 'Source?' post.

Scruff101

GazzaL wrote: »

He was asked for a number and avoided giving it. We're way below ICU capacity at the moment.

How do you know? He's only giving covid figures. There's other people taking up ICU beds for other non covid reasons so we don't know the capacity.

Nermal

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Changes will be made every two to four weeks but the Government will intervene if things are going off track and some elements would be reintroduced.

Mr Varadkar said he hopes to put the plan before Cabinet tomorrow to be signed off on.

He said there were five key priorities to be considered in lifting the restrictions:

Progress of the disease
Healthcare capacity and resilience
Testing and contact tracing capacity
Ability to shield and care for at-risk groups
Risk of secondary morbidity due to the restrictions themselves

I assume he just forgot to add consideration of the economic impacts to the list?

Discodog

Listening to Newstalk. There have been a succession of contributors warning that deaths from lack of routine medicine will kill more than Covid.

growleaves

the kelt wrote: »

What do people want, say nothing, ask no questions, follow and baa like sheep, clap when instructed to?

Apparently that is what many people want.

CalamariFritti

seamus wrote: »

There won't be dates at all, as the plan will be goal-driven, not date-driven.

It'll be more like, "When number X has been at or below value Y for two consecutive weeks, then we will move to phase 2. Phase 2 will last for at least four weeks. At the end of these four weeks if <...> criteria are met, we will move to phase 3. If not, we remain in phase 2 for two more weeks. If the figures regress, we will step back to phase 1".

And so on.

The people agonising here over tiny statements is a bit bizarre. Journalists are attempting to draw the CMO on exact figures so that they have a story to write. So that they have a stick to beat him with later on.

This is like asking an army general when he thinks his troops should withdraw, knowing full well that the final decision does not rest with him.

It would be very irresponsible for him to give specifics to the press, before the government have presented a plan. He is not the one making the decisions, he is providing advice. If he says one thing, and the government presents something slightly different, then the media will hammer a wedge into that gap and undermine public confidence in the lockdown.

There is a concerted effort within our media, to undermine the state's effort and controlling this outbreak. I have no idea where it's coming from, but it's there. DOB's media are bad for it, but there are worse ones.

I have no problem with that. Should make sense to anyone.

However when asked about what X and Y are that question was also deliberately dodged ('as low as possible'). Thats simply not good enough. This not some small little thingy where 'it'll be grand sure', 'we'll see'. This is the social and economical lockdown of an entire country we're talking about. It's just not good enough. Its lazy and arrogant to boot. You gonna lose the people with that kind of stuff and then you're in a real problem spot.