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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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bush

road_high wrote: »

What happens after that? When the mortgage holders have no job to return to? And they can’t meet the repayments?

Those mortgage breaks are no different to what the banks were offering before the virus. Load of crap.

road_high

uli84 wrote: »

Mortgage break or whatever getting extended to 6 months...assuming then the restrictions are not getting eased and that the same will happen to covid-19 350€ a week payment haha

good luck everyone and remember we’re all in this together

What happens after that? When the mortgage holders have no job to return to? And they can’t meet the repayments?

Stormyteacup

From the minutes of NPHET meeting 14th April published on gov.ie - two things stand out

1: DOH presents draft for easing of restrictions on 10th April

"Review of Current Public Health Measures - Phasing A draft paper outlining considerations for any future phased reduction of the social distancing measures currently in place was previously presented to the NPHET at the meeting on 10th April 2020 and DOH is continuing to work on this paper; which is being developed in line with the advice of the EU Commission, ECDC, WHO and approaches of other countries. A further version of the paper is to be considered by the NPHET at the next meeting on 17th April 2020."

2: Bit concerning this, may explain the CMO's 'as low as possible' for target numbers in ICU - have NPHET decided to change tack from suppression to eradication?

"(b) AOB (i) The Chair brought correspondence from a Consultant of Infectious Diseases to the attention of the NPHET for its consideration in terms of an eradication approach and indicated that input from the NPHET would be welcomed in replying. (Permission to share to NPHET was granted by the author). It was noted that the component parts of the approach outlined are aligned with priorities already identified by NPHET."

[Deleted User]

GazzaL wrote: »

No I'm happy that we are currently way below capacity, so that there is room to deal with more patients.

What about the regular workload in ICU?

[Deleted User]

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

It's nice to see people like Elon Musk on board and speaking out on how ridiculous it is.

When it's just a nutcase like Gemma ODotery it's much easier for the government and media to dismiss it

Because Elon Musk has an unblemished record in public statements

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/15/elon-musk-british-diver-thai-cave-rescue-pedo-twitter

RugbyLad11

One thing I don't understand.

We have Tony who want's to keep us locked inside for months and months because the virus is so destructive but yet he still doesn't recommend we cover our mouth/nose to help reduce the spread.

easypazz

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

So Our Great Unelected Leader Dr Tony (OGULDT) is struggling to find measures or number targets we haven't already met and is now hanging on to an invisible magic ICU number to keep the country in shutdown? Did journalists really accept his "as low as possible" target?

These clowns need to start sharing specifics pronto. It's starting to get farcical fast. Tomorrow will be fascinating, the whole country is waiting for this announcement.

If it's as unclear and unspecific as their recent sound bites, I'd say public confidence in them will fall off a cliff if it hasn't done so already.

This is what they were saying in January. The farce is here as long as the virus.

On 23 January director of the HSE's Health Protection Surveillance Centre said the risk of coronavirus cases in Ireland was “quite low”, “If we were to see a case in a European country the risk of a secondary case – a person transmitting to somebody else – is also low”.
Meanwhile there had been 52 deaths in Ireland from flu during the Winter season. HSE Assistant National Director of Public Health and Child Health, Dr Kevin Kelleher, praised China's response to coronavirus as "utterly open" and "phenomenal".[23][24] Dublin Airport Authority said that no actions were required while the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade had not advised against traveling to China.[25]

(Wikipedia)

These people have failed. End of.

Sanjuro

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

It's nice to see people like Elon Musk on board and speaking out on how ridiculous it is.

When it's just a nutcase like Gemma ODotery it's much easier for the government and media to dismiss it

Yeah, Elon Musk. Great example. Real brain genius that guy.

Nermal

seamus wrote: »

He is not the one making the decisions, he is providing advice.

The government have explicitly stated on many occasions that they simply do whatever what the NPHET tell them.

seamus wrote: »

There is a concerted effort within our media, to undermine the state's effort and controlling this outbreak. I have no idea where it's coming from, but it's there. DOB's media are bad for it, but there are worse ones.

I've seen nothing of the sort. I have however seen plenty of examples of:

exaggerated fatality and hospitalisation rates
#stayathome social media herd behaviour
vanishingly rare examples of young people dying
nonsense reports of people being infected twice

The only effort ongoing in the media is 'generate clicks'.

thebaz

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

It's nice to see people like Elon Musk on board and speaking out on how ridiculous it is.

When it's just a nutcase like Gemma ODotery it's much easier for the government and media to dismiss it

The worst thing for those that who want a sensible debate about Covid and an alternatives take to WHO and the Government , is Gemma.
she obviously not well, and her extereme crazy views is helping no one.

KrustyUCC

uli84 wrote: »

Mortgage break or whatever getting extended to 6 months...assuming then the restrictions are not getting eased and that the same will happen to covid-19 350€ a week payment haha

good luck everyone and remember we’re all in this together

Link?

The €350 payment for another 3 months will cost a fortune

growleaves

uli84 wrote: »

Mortgage break or whatever getting extended to 6 months...assuming then the restrictions are not getting eased and that the same will happen to covid-19 350€ a week payment haha

Where did you see that?

good luck everyone and remember we’re all in this together

Yeah we're all cellmates together in one giant prison.

drunkmonkey

coastwatch wrote: »

Border County?

Tipperary

uli84

Mortgage break or whatever getting extended to 6 months...assuming then the restrictions are not getting eased and that the same will happen to covid-19 350€ a week payment haha

good luck everyone and remember we’re all in this together

Edit: its only mortgage break as per journal.ie
The rest just assumption but I cannot imagine we can afford that

coastwatch

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Just chatting to one of the lads about the **** show in the local meat factory he hadn't heard about it, told me X works there roll on a few minutes and who rocks on only X, I said I'm out of here but asked him what was the story with the factory when I was far enough away, said there is 84 confirmed and 200 staff out with it suspected out of a workforce of about 320, he only got the test Friday and is awaiting results, this was all outside the shop he'd just been in.
This hasn't a hope of stopping until your forced to isolate. We can't trust people to do it. It needs to be forced.

Border County?

SAMTALK

pjohnson wrote: »

Thanks but managed = altered/made up/false/the truth is out there/fake news. Its all conspiratorial rubbish.

This isnt really the thread for constructive thoughts as any thought/plan is met by shrieks of "the people" wont take it.

ixoy wrote: »

Do people actually think that? I see very little of that here. Most are calling for a gradual phased re-opening and are happy to see added security measures that weren't there before. Very very few asking, or expecting, for an immediate rollback. I imagine the general public is of the same opinion.

I think you missed my point.

It takes time to set things in place for reopening of business. Things have to change and it wont happen over night . People and hospital beds took priority at the start of this and now we need to concentrate on how to get people back to work in a safe environment.

GazzaL

Penfailed wrote: »

Would you rather we were running at or just below capacity? If that's what you are saying, it leaves no room for things to get worse.

No I'm happy that we are currently way below capacity, so that there is room to deal with more patients.

KrustyUCC

GazzaL wrote: »

He was asked for a number and avoided giving it. We're way below ICU capacity at the moment.

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1255763072964313088?s=19

So 103 cases

Our capacity was at 312 beds on 8th April

So we're a third full or two thirds empty

That's also based on 312 figure which I'm sure has been added to by this stage

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/coronavirus-patients-could-be-moved-out-of-dublin-if-hospital-capacity-exceeded-993035.html

RugbyLad11

It's nice to see people like Elon Musk on board and speaking out on how ridiculous it is.

When it's just a nutcase like Gemma ODotery it's much easier for the government and media to dismiss it

Penfailed

GazzaL wrote: »

He was asked for a number and avoided giving it. We're way below ICU capacity at the moment.

Would you rather we were running at or just below capacity? If that's what you are saying, it leaves no room for things to get worse.

seamus

sideswipe wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if there are dates. There'll be 'middle of summer', 'start of autumn' ambiguous vibe similar to the '5 cases in the east, 2 cases in the west' type of detail.

There won't be dates at all, as the plan will be goal-driven, not date-driven.

It'll be more like, "When number X has been at or below value Y for two consecutive weeks, then we will move to phase 2. Phase 2 will last for at least four weeks. At the end of these four weeks if <...> criteria are met, we will move to phase 3. If not, we remain in phase 2 for two more weeks. If the figures regress, we will step back to phase 1".

And so on.

The people agonising here over tiny statements is a bit bizarre. Journalists are attempting to draw the CMO on exact figures so that they have a story to write. So that they have a stick to beat him with later on.

This is like asking an army general when he thinks his troops should withdraw, knowing full well that the final decision does not rest with him.

It would be very irresponsible for him to give specifics to the press, before the government have presented a plan. He is not the one making the decisions, he is providing advice. If he says one thing, and the government presents something slightly different, then the media will hammer a wedge into that gap and undermine public confidence in the lockdown.

There is a concerted effort within our media, to undermine the state's effort and controlling this outbreak. I have no idea where it's coming from, but it's there. DOB's media are bad for it, but there are worse ones.

[Deleted User]

growleaves wrote: »

Any statisical endeavour has to be done by somebody who understands the subject.

and a random emergency room doctor is statistically unlikely to have received any decent background training in epidemiology. A medical degree is an intense undertaking, and having the scope to complete the level of work required to come to level of understanding in epidemiology beyond the undergraduate level while qualifying as a medical doctor is just not possible. Maybe the author of your piece completed some post graduate study in the subject, but it does not show in his writing which is almost entirely political in nature

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Tony Holohan said our numbers are not low enough .He was asked specifically how low must they be for a lifting of restrictions .His answer was " As low as possible "
That was the very moment I lost faith in him .He will manipulate numbers now to deflect and distract and use them in any way it suits the agenda

"As low as possible" would be zero which means you're not getting out before
Christmas!

Hope you organised the turkey...

Nermal

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I’m not looking forward to the “I told you so” brigade that will assemble en masse once this is over and the facts and figures are accurately published.

Maybe the lockdown is a bit much, maybe we could have gone about business as usual, but precautions are precautions and as it stands the correct decisions have been made so far. In time they might not have been the correct ones, but that’s only when more info come out.

Nope. Don't try to rewrite history.

We had the data.

But our media sensationalised it with exaggerated fatality rates based on confirmed cases. Our populace was driven to panic. Our leaders responded with unnecessary, ineffective and ruinously expensive lockdowns.

https://twitter.com/MarkChangizi/status/1254796958964858882

But what's worse than making a mistake, is refusing to admit it.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/do-lockdowns-save-many-lives-is-most-places-the-data-say-no-11587930911

GazzaL

JoeExotic81 wrote: »

So Our Great Unelected Leader Dr Tony (OGULDT) is struggling to find measures or number targets we haven't already met and is now hanging on to an invisible magic ICU number to keep the country in shutdown? Did journalists really accept his "as low as possible" target?

These clowns need to start sharing specifics pronto. It's starting to get farcical fast. Tomorrow will be fascinating, the whole country is waiting for this announcement.

If it's as unclear and unspecific as their recent sound bites, I'd say public confidence in them will fall off a cliff if it hasn't done so already.

He was asked for a number and avoided giving it. We're way below ICU capacity at the moment.

drunkmonkey

Just chatting to one of the lads about the **** show in the local meat factory he hadn't heard about it, told me X works there roll on a few minutes and who rocks on only X, I said I'm out of here but asked him what was the story with the factory when I was far enough away, said there is 84 confirmed and 200 staff out with it suspected out of a workforce of about 320, he only got the test Friday and is awaiting results, this was all outside the shop he'd just been in.
This hasn't a hope of stopping until your forced to isolate. We can't trust people to do it. It needs to be forced.

growleaves

Deleted User wrote: »

Epidemiological modelling is far more of a statistical endeavour than medical

Any statisical endeavour has to be done by somebody who understands the subject.

JoeExotic81

So Our Great Unelected Leader Dr Tony (OGULDT) is struggling to find measures or number targets we haven't already met and is now hanging on to an invisible magic ICU number to keep the country in shutdown? Did journalists really accept his "as low as possible" target?

These clowns need to start sharing specifics pronto. It's starting to get farcical fast. Tomorrow will be fascinating, the whole country is waiting for this announcement.

If it's as unclear and unspecific as their recent sound bites, I'd say public confidence in them will fall off a cliff if it hasn't done so already.

tobefrank321

The summer season is vital for the hospitality industry, far more so than winter.

If we can isolate enough of the vulnerable groups and we know a lot more now than we did 6 weeks ago who these groups are, then it would be far better to deal with a second wave of infections over the summer and autumn than next winter.

We should continue to isolate over 80s. We should identify patients who are in high risk categories and these people should be asked to remain at home. Everyone else should be obliged to wear masks as much as possible particularly on public transport.

The idea that Holohan and others are entertaining that we can somehow get infections down to a manageable or low level is completely laughable. We are not NZ or Taiwan. It is far too endemic here to even dream of getting infections to a low level. We just have to accept that fact and live around it.

Had they enforced stricter measures at the start we'd be in a far better place. But with an open economy and open borders, the idea that you can get infections low is just not a runner.

[Deleted User]

ixoy wrote: »

They're getting orders from Bill Gates.

Of course, it all makes sense now