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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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average_runner

appledrop wrote: »

Irish Times reporting that opposition told that the number of cases would have to be on a continuous downward trend before restrictions lifted.

That's never going to happen. We cant get rid of this virus we have to learn to live with it.

Again look at other countries and it is on a constant spiral

drunkmonkey

NegativeCreep wrote: »

I’ve noticed that he speeds through the numbers. Very hard to keep up

I used to be able to follow them but not yesterday, way too much information too quickly. There's no way the Journalists could keep up.

average_runner

facehugger99 wrote: »

You should really think more, ICU numbers are high because it's rampant in nursing homes - absolutely nothing to do with restrictions.

Doesn't matter where, the fact we need to be able to manage the ICU numbers. By managing the ICU numbers we can decrease the pressure on the hospitals and start getting other treatments going again

average_runner

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I used to be able to follow them but not yesterday, way too much information too quickly. There's no way the Journalists could keep up.

Journalists were asking stupid questions. One was focusing on the American football match in sept. The last question from a journalist was very good, all about the breakdown of the numbers.

Pitch n Putt

facehugger99 wrote: »

You should really think more, ICU numbers are high because it's rampant in nursing homes - absolutely nothing to do with restrictions.

Dr Tony has to try and jumble up the numbers between “the bold community”and the actual hotspots of the nursing homes to cover up the HSE tracks from the major mismanagement of the nursing homes in the first place.

We’re all going to have to feel the pain for at least two more weeks because of this.

Sad but true. As ever there is no accountability for anything in this country.

average_runner

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Dr Tony has to try and jumble up the numbers between “the bold community”and the actual hotspots of the nursing homes to cover up the HSE tracks from the major mismanagement of the nursing homes in the first place.

We’re all going to have to feel the pain for at least two more weeks because of this.

Sad but true. As ever there is no accountability for anything in this country.

Nursing homes need to take accountability also. They are still allowing people in to visit their love ones that have Corona. Shocking behaviour

[Deleted User]

JRant wrote: »

It's not my assertion, so no.

Well in the absence of a quote, or a link or some data, all I can assume is you pulled it out of your arse

Pitch n Putt

average_runner wrote: »

Nursing homes need to take accountability also. They are still allowing people in to visit their love ones that have Corona. Shocking behaviour

Some had restrictions on visitors in place in early March and the good doctors recommendation was that those self imposed restrictions should be removed.

Not to mention the smart move of sending confirmed cases to the nursing homes.

There is no covering up the bad recommendations and decisions that were taken.

Diarmuid

gozunda wrote: »

So yes this disease is affecting both young and old.

That's only true in a literal sense. If 100,000 people over 70 had the disease and 1 person under 70 had it, then you can say "this disease is affecting both young and old"
However on a practical level, it's only affecting over 70s and really the over 80s.

To put it in context, if you are in your 40s and you contract the virus, your risk of dying is 0.4% That's pretty much the exact same risk of dying from any cause in the next year for that age!! So on Jan 1 if you woke up as a 48 year old, your risk of dying in the next year is 0.4%, regardless of Covid-19

gozunda wrote: »

Without restrictions those figures would be a lot higher.

It's really not that difficult to understand tbh ...

It's actually is, otherwise there wouldn't be whole countries with different and successful approaches to containing it.

pjohnson

JRant wrote: »

Absolutely not, managed does not mean made up or fake news or false. Take, for instance, the fact they have stopped giving the median age of those that have died. Why suddenly stop? Well, if you want to manage the numbers it takes the focus off the fact that the majority of deaths are very old people. It's doesn't mean anyone is peddling fake news or lies but more so changing the narrative.

Doesn't seem like it's the thread for you, yet here you are.

It is. Its good to have something to cheer you up.

average_runner

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Some had restrictions on visitors in place in early March and the good doctors recommendation was that those self imposed restrictions should be removed.

Not to mention the smart move of sending confirmed cases to the nursing homes.

There is no covering up the bad recommendations and decisions that were taken.

Sending the cases back was crazy.

GazzaL

Discodog wrote: »

We should know by now where all the new cases are originating from. According to a German study supermarket workers aren't getting infected in any numbers. My anecdotal experience via friends who work in supermarkets backs this up yet they should be most likely to get it.

Unfortunately the critical job of contact tracing & testing is in the hands of a hopeless organisation. Might be better to put the Army in overall control.

There are SMEs including retailers that can put in place better social distancing than supermarkets, yet they aren't being allowed to open.

Huge permanent job losses to follow.

Thanks Leo. Thanks Tony.

Hearty80

Any updates on when announcement is being made? Doesn't look like anyone is going back to work. Oh works in construction and has heard nothing from anyone. Things would need to.be in place tomorrow to begin work on Tuesday.

facehugger99

average_runner wrote: »

Doesn't matter where, the fact we need to be able to manage the ICU numbers. By managing the ICU numbers we can decrease the pressure on the hospitals and start getting other treatments going again

It does matter where.

The restrictions are not having any effect on nursing home infections and ICU admissions.

Extending restrictions will make no difference to these numbers.

The only thing it will achieve is exacerbating the devastating economic effects of the lockdown.

The whole thing is shameful.

Benimar

Hearty80 wrote: »

Any updates on when announcement is being made? Doesn't look like anyone is going back to work. Oh works in construction and has heard nothing from anyone. Things would need to.be in place tomorrow to begin work on Tuesday.

Current restrictions don't end until Tuesday night, so Wednesday is the earliest anyone will be going back.

IF construction opens, it will be announced Friday and then they will have Tuesday to get things in place for Wednesday.

[Deleted User]

facehugger99 wrote: »

You should really think more, ICU numbers are high because it's rampant in nursing homes - absolutely nothing to do with restrictions.

Any numbers on those being admitted to ICU from nursing homes? And do you think the reason they are saying numbers in ICU are too high is they need the surge capacity if relaxing of rules results in a new spike in admissions

[Deleted User]

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Dr Tony has to try and jumble up the numbers between “the bold community”and the actual hotspots of the nursing homes to cover up the HSE tracks from the major mismanagement of the nursing homes in the first place.

We’re all going to have to feel the pain for at least two more weeks because of this.

Sad but true. As ever there is no accountability for anything in this country.

Yes, and we are the only country in the world impacted, typical Ireland, useless shower!

Hearty80

Benimar wrote: »

Current restrictions don't end until Tuesday night, so Wednesday is the earliest anyone will be going back.

IF construction opens, it will be announced Friday and then they will have Tuesday to get things in place for Wednesday.

That's true thanks

drunkmonkey

GazzaL wrote: »

There are SMEs including retailers that can put in place better social distancing than supermarkets, yet they aren't being allowed to open.

Huge permanent job losses to follow.

Thanks Leo. Thanks Tony.

I'd expect some to open next week or possibly 2 weeks after Monday. I don't think they'll call another month of full lockdown Friday. They should start to open up places outside Dublin and see how it goes, the rest of the country waiting on Dublin is crazy. We need to test the water in other regions first.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

Any numbers on those being admitted to ICU from nursing homes? And do you think the reason they are saying numbers in ICU are too high is they need the surge capacity if relaxing of rules results in a new spike in admissions

ICU numbers yesterday were the LOWEST they’ve been in a month , numbers ARE dropping! (See Gavan Reilly journalist Tweet 8.40am this morning )

CalamariFritti

So we're now locked in for 7 weeks and counting and our new rulers by decree from the NPHET committee are dodging questions with regards to parameters for the easing/ending of the lockdown. Not just evading timelines but actively dodging questions as to any kind of measurement for what a 'good number' (of people in ICU, new cases etc) looks like. The Taoiseach says he will not ease anything until the doctors tell him it's 'safe to do so'. Which they will never do. It will never be truly safe.

This is quickly becoming a political crisis on top of the health crisis. In any other context we'd call this a coup.

I'm not saying it is a coup and I don't even think there is malice. But we're ruled by NPHET. 20 to 40 people in a room or video conference. All bigshots in their own right with their own agendas.
I can just picture it. Cover your arse and kick the can down the road and make no decision or commitment as long as possible. If a decision can no longer be avoided it'll have to be a joint decision so that no one is accountable. The poor eejit whose job title means he can't dodge that task then is being trotted out in front of the public to bullsh1t us.

This is how we end up with the most non-committal token plan ever with no dates in it and more importantly with no other numbers in it either. And the media are asking questions about American Football in the Aviva?

I'm so angry right now. What the actual fvck? I mean your one Gemma O'Doherty is a total clown but I must admit her heart is in the right place with regards to challenging this in court. This is becoming a total sh1t show.

drunkmonkey

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, and we are the only country in the world impacted, typical Ireland, useless shower!

We seen it coming light a freight train blowing it's horn and didn't take the opportunity to step out of the way. Doctor Leo should have been all over this in January, retailers knew there was a problem when they couldn't get stock, why didn't the government. They utterly failed us.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Any numbers on those being admitted to ICU from nursing homes? And do you think the reason they are saying numbers in ICU are too high is they need the surge capacity if relaxing of rules results in a new spike in admissions

Dont mind that bluffer,the average age in icu last reported was 60

BillyBiggs

Has the whole lockdown become a farce, with Italy and Spain reopening in Europe and their death rates not being particularly low yet? Also America is reopening quite fast, with little improvement. Why is Ireland still closed, when the rest of the world is getting going?

lawrencesummers

average_runner wrote: »

Journalists were asking stupid questions. One was focusing on the American football match in sept. The last question from a journalist was very good, all about the breakdown of the numbers.

The Match is in August and its very pertinent that this be brought to the fore.

We are doing a good job of combating this virus, not as good a job as other countries but nowhere near as bad as or next door neighbours.

The idea that we go to all this effort only to invite 35000 Americans over here in July / August - Americans who are alumni and therefore come from all over the US, some of whom have extensive itinerary's for visiting

Hearty80

BillyBiggs wrote: »

Has the whole lockdown become a farce, with Italy and Spain reopening in Europe and their death rates not being particularly low yet? Also America is reopening quite fast, with little improvement. Why is Ireland still closed, when the rest of the world is getting going?

Seems that way, and for some reason we are constantly kept in the dark. Most people are getting very frustrated.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

ICU numbers yesterday were the LOWEST they’ve been in a month , numbers ARE dropping! (See Gavan Reilly journalist Tweet 8.40am this morning )

I am aware of that and the falling ICU numbers are what I believe are the best indicator that we are winning this. I also think some concessions should be made in allowing more shops and businesses to open, wider exercise allowances and the possibility to have small groups meet with social distancing. However the fact that Holohan is indicating ICU numbers are too high to move to the next stage is positive in my opinion. It means they are taking a fact based approach to decision making and not letting the emotion of the sky is falling brigade wanting everyone locked up for months, or the sure its only old people brigade on the other sway decisions. You can argue to point at which that decision should be made, but making logical, fact based decisions is the best way out of this

the kelt

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'd expect some to open next week or possibly 2 weeks after Monday. I don't think they'll call another month of full lockdown Friday. They should start to open up places outside Dublin and see how it goes, the rest of the country waiting on Dublin is crazy. We need to test the water in other regions first.

This has happened in other countries and when you look at the numbers Carlow, Leitrim, Longford, Sligo, Waterford and Wexford all account for less than 1% of the countrys cases.

Dublin of course is up there but worse again are someof the border counties (NI loophole maybe?)

Of course to put something like that in place would require a little bit of innovative thinking, indeed it would require thinking beyond operations "lets blame the public for our own failings" and operation "kick the can down the road"

[Deleted User]

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We seen it coming light a freight train blowing it's horn and didn't take the opportunity to step out of the way. Doctor Leo should have been all over this in January, retailers knew there was a problem when they couldn't get stock, why didn't the government. They utterly failed us.

Where did this not happen outside south east asia? Hindsight is brilliant, but globally governments were taking their queue from the WHO who were being hoodwinked by China

faceman

Look at us now. Only a few weeks ago the vast majority of posters and general public were supportive of lockdown measures. But now....

Crèches and preschools not opening till September. No published plan. Lies from the government. Lack of transparency from the government. Leaking information to the media. A divided cabinet. Other countries in Europe publishing their plans.

We are going to see a divided Ireland. Working couples with young kids are going to be in one camp and older people over 45/50 will be in another.

Next week is going to get very interesting. The Gardai will have to get stricter and we may see a play out of water charges type dilemmas.

Even Spain who have the a severely strict lockdown and haven’t offered income support to people have published a detailed plan and public support remains. (Although cops there take no shít)