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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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Breezin

gozunda wrote: »

I see a lot of posters using the phrase 'people' when the evidently mean themselves on this thread

But yeah not particularly helpful that attitude tbh.

Just because some may have decided to go against the current advise of helping to reduce the rate of infection and oreventing our health services from being overrun - doesn't mean we are all eejits and going to do the same.

This is the sort of sly, insinuating tone of accusation that the lockdown has produced. No one opposing the lockdown or commenting on restrictions can possibly be without guilt. Sinister, and reminiscent of authoritarian regimes throughout history.

Why can't you just debate the pros and cons on their merit?

smelly sock

Amy idea what relaxtions will take place? 2km extended?

GazzaL

thegetawaycar wrote: »

Partners that live apart can't see each other - They can
parents can't see their children and vice versa - They can

Again, I'm not saying it's easy or ideal but it's been about 5 weeks not 5 years.
It is difficult if you can't see family members face to face, although if you are going to see them while keeping to social distancing I'd personally consider it essential travel.

Losing businesses is going to happen, that's an unfortunate case here, social distancing is the new norm going forward, if you can't adhere to it, it will be very difficult to re-open or make a living from the business at all.

Not to down play that, new businesses will open that can and more new norms will be created.

They can't if they're more than 2km away from each other. That's what the restrictions say.

Businesses aren't allowed to open even if they can implement social distancing. It takes money to get businesses going, which for many people, will be in short supply.

thegetawaycar

SusieBlue wrote: »

Maybe for you it isn’t as bad, but you don’t speak for everyone.
It’s all relative to ones personal experience. I am finding current conditions pretty much unbearable and I don’t know how much longer I can take it.
I wake up every day with a weight on my chest at the prospect of trying to fill another day, missing my friends and family, no job to go to, no purpose and very little to distract myself from my anxiety.
I think I have cried at least once a day since the isolation started. I’m finding it hard to cope.
Netflix and chill just isn’t cutting it anymore, I’m not sure it ever was but it was tolerated because we were promised it was only a temporary measure.

One life isn’t more important than the other. We all matter in this and there has to be a balance.

Just to call out, I did ask to explain the part of the lockdown that was causing issue so I could empathise better (which you have), I didn't say it was easy.

That sounds really hard, what part of the restrictions being lifted would help you personally with the anxiety?
Will your job be able to open with social distancing to provide you purpose?

The lockdown IS temporary but I'd expect that some restrictions will remain in place for a long time.

I'm not going to try and tell you what to do as I'm no mental health professional and I'm sorry to hear that it's hitting you hard and that telecommunication with friends and family is not filling the void enough to combat the anxiety.

GazzaL

thegetawaycar wrote: »

If a business can safely adhere to social distancing, I'd let them open (I'm not the decision maker). If that happens next week or in 3 weeks I'd feel the same.

Who has had their life destroyed by the lockdown?

You might let them open but the Government won't. Most businesses can implement social distancing tomorrow, they were already doing it before the lockdown.

The people who are being affected like I outlined are having their lives destroyed.

[Deleted User]

growleaves wrote: »

What you have is a cause-and-effect assumption - then you've jumped to a conclusion.

This cause-and-effect assumption has to be tested by an inquiry, i.e. Were other aggravated factors in place in Lombardy which caused it be particularly bad? To what extent were these factors operative compared to other regions? To what extent had Ireland increased its ICU capacity? etc.

Expected outcome: 5x deaths
Action: lockdown
Result: 1x deaths
Cause: definitely not the lockdown, no evidence, sure that’s what would have happened anyway, sure they changed the models, and the country that was 5x was different anyway

thegetawaycar

GazzaL wrote: »

They can't if they're more than 2km away from each other. That's what the restrictions say.

Businesses aren't allowed to open even if they can implement social distancing. It takes money to get businesses going, which for many people, will be in short supply.

There are plenty of methods to see each other using technology it may not suit all or be ideal but it's an option.

If the business now don't have the money (as you stated) to re-open I'm afraid it's too late for them if they can't get loans etc...

gozunda

Breezin wrote: »

This is the sort of sly, insinuating tone of accusation that the lockdown has produced. No one opposing the lockdown or commenting on restrictions can possibly be without guilt. Sinister, and reminiscent of authoritarian regimes throughout history. Why can't you just debate the pros and cons on their merit?

Lol. 'Sly' right back at you Just because you dont like something does not make it any less true

I was replying to a specific comment btw. There was no mention of any "Sinister, and reminiscent of authoritarian regimes throughout history". Start a thread on that if you like.

And yes the issue of the use of the term 'people' by few is glaringly evident

drunkmonkey

smelly sock wrote: »

Amy idea what relaxtions will take place? 2km extended?

I think they need to lock certain locations down at this stage, nobody out past 2km, essential or not. This should be done in cluster areas and properly policed with 24hr checkpoints.
I'm starting to get concerned so called essential businesses with large workforces are a big problem.

niallo27

thegetawaycar wrote: »

If a business can safely adhere to social distancing, I'd let them open (I'm not the decision maker). If that happens next week or in 3 weeks I'd feel the same.

Who has had their life destroyed by the lockdown?

Young fella killed himself in our town, home alone. Who knows if his family or friends were around they could have talked him out it.

GazzaL

thegetawaycar wrote: »

There are plenty of methods to see each other using technology it may not suit all or be ideal but it's an option.

If the business now don't have the money (as you stated) to re-open I'm afraid it's too late for them if they can't get loans etc...

You haven't a clue about business.

is_that_so

thegetawaycar wrote: »

There are plenty of methods to see each other using technology it may not suit all or be ideal but it's an option.

If the business now don't have the money (as you stated) to re-open I'm afraid it's too late for them if they can't get loans etc...

There's actually more pressure and stress in some forms of technology as there is no time when you don't feel you are being watched!

Stark

niallo27 wrote: »

Young fella killed himself in our town, home alone. Who knows if his family or friends were around they could have talked him out it.

I've also had a suicide in the extended family circle in the last 2 weeks. Who knows if it would have happened regardless. How the family have been treated in the aftermath is in itself cruel. None of us in the extended family were allowed anywhere near in order to comfort them. A couple of the family who lived near enough (outside the 2km but close enough to avoid checkpoints) were able to call round but good look to anyone in a separate city like myself.

But sure, isn't anyone calling for a review just interested in packed pubs?

easypazz

gozunda wrote: »

Lol. You would argue with a signpost

I suppose anyone can chose to read that and claim whatever they like then add boldy bits for good measure

But yes It says exactly what I referred to that there will be a global downturn/ recession. And btw I did not mention anything about a recovery. But yes that will follow as well.
Do try and keep up.

You were more specific, you said there will be a downturn next year.

That article does not support your view at all.

It is obvious the downturn is happening this year, right now, with everything closed, and as things reopen the economy improves, albeit at a slow pace.

You did not mention a recovery, because you predicted a downturn next year, it is the IMF who predicted a recovery, next year.

The downturn will be very sharp, followed by a slow recovery, or hopefully even a "V" recovery.

But either way, your claim that there will be a downturn next year, is false.

Do keep up.

oceanman

hmmm wrote: »

Interesting idea being proposed in New York - close off streets, and allow restaurants to serve guests in the open air.

It's ideas like this that we need here too, and businesses should be pushing for.

with the weather we get here! ???

Discodog

SusieBlue wrote: »

I see a few TD’s are pleading with Leo & Simon to allow animal grooming facilities open on the 5th.

My own dog has a coat that requires grooming every 6 weeks, he was booked in for mid March but the appointment was cancelled because animal groomers were not considered to be an essential service & they had to close.
My poor fella is so overdue a grooming at this stage that he’s absolutely miserable, I can’t even take him for long walks on warm days any more because he’s overheating from the weight of his fur.
He can barely see, his eyes are so overgrown in long hair. I already tried to get at him with a razor but he wouldn’t let me near him. We have taken to tying the fur on top of his head into a ponytail to keep it out of his eyes and face.
He’s very uncomfortable and needs to be seen to asap.

Very little human contact is needed to operate these kinds of facilities so there is no reason why they should not be allowed reopen on Tuesday. They absolutely are an essential service and they should never have had to close in the first place.

They are a classic example of people that took the advice but didn't read the law. Groomers can open legally. Their service is part of animal welfare.

SCHEDULE 2
Regulation 3
ESSENTIAL SERVICES

Agriculture, horticulture, forestry, fishing, animal welfare and related services 1. The following services relating to agriculture, horticulture, forestry, fishing, animal welfare and related services: (a) farming; (b) farm labour; (c) farm relief services; (d) crop and animal production; (e) fishing for commercial purposes; (f) aquaculture and fish farming; (g) horticulture; (h) forestry; (i) veterinary, animal welfare and related services; (j) the provision of support services relating to any of the services specified in subparagraphs (a) to (i) (including artificial insemination and animal disposal).

C__MC

I'm no fan of Gemma o doherty, she is bonkers and doesn't deserve air time

Btw if she was to successfully challenge state with her case, where would that leave the lock down??

uli84

Why is todays announcement at 8pm? Do they need more time to think what number to come up with?

growleaves

Deleted User wrote: »

Expected outcome: 5x deaths
Action: lockdown
Result: 1x deaths
Cause: definitely not the lockdown, no evidence, sure that’s what would have happened anyway, sure they changed the models, and the country that was 5x was different anyway

Lol

When it was rising exponentially and people such as yourself were hearing the word "exponential" for the first time, you refused to believe that it would rise, level out and drop of itself - just like every UTRI does year after year, decade after decade including normal strains of influenza and extraordinary diseases like Hong Kong Flu, Asian Flu, encephalitica lethargica.

So you bought into the lockdown emotionally and then.. the disease levelled out and dropped just like most other diseases.

Emotionally the lockdown has been vindicated in your mind and there's nothing more to be said. Scientifically, we are still at the beginning of comprehension and have to start trying to establish what did and didn't happen and why.

Like I said, it has to be studied by someone who understands the subject.

C__MC

uli84 wrote: »

Why is todays announcement at 8pm? Do they need more time to think what number to come up with?

Thinking of more reasons to extend lockdown more like

easypazz

hmmm wrote: »

Interesting idea being proposed in New York - close off streets, and allow restaurants to serve guests in the open air.

It's ideas like this that we need here too, and businesses should be pushing for.

On the plus side we are coming into summer, so its an option in the short term.

hmmm

oceanman wrote: »

with the weather we get here! ???

Still, it could be something like that or business failures. I'd give an outdoor restaurant a go if it meant I could get out of the house.

is_that_so

C__MC wrote: »

Thinking of more reasons to extend lockdown more like

There's NPHET and 8 subgroups off it. Some or all of our briefing panel could have been at other meetings.

drunkmonkey

C__MC wrote: »

Thinking of more reasons to extend lockdown more like

I think they have reason to increase restrictions, know of a factory with north of 70+ confirmed cases now.

greenfield21

I think we're going to see a full lifting of restrictions next week, its the right time the people have had enough. Its time for the big reopening to get the economy back on track.

C__MC

greenfield21 wrote: »

I think we're going to see a full lifting of restrictions next week, its the right time the people have had enough. Its time for the big reopening to get the economy back on track.

I'll have whatever your smoking but there ain't a hope of that

road_high

greenfield21 wrote: »

I think we're going to see a full lifting of restrictions next week, its the right time the people have had enough. Its time for the big reopening to get the economy back on track.

What are you basing that on?! All the mood music has been extend extend...

growleaves

raind,

A cause-and-effect assumption - expressed in three half-sentences - isn't going to cut it for such a serious matter.

There will be actual studies done in time.

Penfailed

greenfield21 wrote: »

I think we're going to see a full lifting of restrictions next week, its the right time the people have had enough. Its time for the big reopening to get the economy back on track.

I hope you are right but I think you are wrong.

smelly sock

hmmm wrote: »

Still, it could be something like that or business failures. I'd give an outdoor restaurant a go if it meant I could get out of the house.

I wouldn't. The hospitality sector will ramp up gouging in the aftermath of this.