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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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gozunda

easypazz wrote: »

No there won't be. Well, its possible but highly unlikely.

The IMF would beg to disagree with your evident expert knowledge ...

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1129580/

[Deleted User]

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

I 100% agree with the lockdown - buys time for health service to flatten curve and prepare for managing the virus for next 2 years.

7 weeks now it's over, time to re-open slowly over the coming months.

They've had enough time - we've done our part.

I agree the time is coming to start to open up, step by step, however what have we actually done? And by we I mean those of us not on the frontline or maintaining critical services. Sit home and watch netflix and post ****e on boards. Maybe do a bit of extra gardening if we have that option. God help us. Our sacrifice will be remembered for generations to come.

Penfailed

easypazz wrote: »

You made a sweeping statement everywhere was jammed.

Not true.

Fair enough. It was a sweeping statement to be fair.

seamus

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I've seen that being said a few times now. Is there any source for this? Not doubting just wanna know.

It's an embellished narrative that some people have run with.

In the second week of March, the HSE embarked on a programme of freeing up beds in hospitals by discharging or moving patients where possible.

In the case of elderly patients, many were transferred (back) to nursing homes.

This is standard practice and has been done many, many times before in order to free up beds.

Covid-positive patients were NOT transferred. That was one of the explicit reasons that excluded a patient from being transferred.

However, patients who were symptomatic or had been in contact wit a covid case, were eligible for transfer.

Herein lies the rub - there is no evidence that anyone who was transferred, was symptomatic or had contact with a covid patient.

However, the fact that they could have been, has led some nursing homes to lay the blame on infection spread at the door of the HSE. Claiming that they would be covid-free if it were not for the transfers. Many nursing homes operators have a troubled relationship with the HSE, and will relish any chance to get the boot in, whether they have evidence for it or not.

The truth, as usual is somewhere in the middle. It seems likely that a small number of patients with Covid probably did end up in some nursing homes before testing positive. But the virus was already spreading, was already well established in many institutions. So the impact on these transfers is unlikely to have been large.
The main reason it became such a problem in nursing homes was the difficulty of getting staff (thus individual staff members interacting with more patients) and the fact that they were deprioritised from getting supplies of PPE.

Speakerboxx

gozunda wrote: »

Your logic is truely based on historic levels of ignorance even compared to some of the other contributions on this thread.

The current restrictions are designed to prevent our health service being overwhelmed and to continue to keep down levels of infection in the general population.

That you seemingly cannot appreciate either of those two most basic concepts is truely staggering.

Edit: And yes restrictions will be eased going forward. Will that be because you want it so? No.

People are not adhering to restrictions anyway. Time to open the floodgates.

JTMan

snotboogie wrote: »

Normal office work won't be returning next month.

Exactly. According to the Irish Times, reopening offices are in the "later phases" which seem to be in September along with schools. Nobody who is working from home will return to the office anytime soon.

Working in offices, in most cases, is non-essential and should be left until last.

[Deleted User]

growleaves wrote: »

Iowa with a population of 3.155 million has had 136 deaths with no lockdown. Its not all isolated farmland either, it has 30 cities.

My partner is from Iowa and I've spent many Christmases there. It might have cities (well, towns really in most cases) but there is a lot of space in those cities. Social distancing is really easy. Buildings are huge - a startup hipster coffee shop in Europe might be crammed into a corner building whereas in Des Moines it is probably spread out over an old industrial warehouse floor. There is just a lot of space - the low deaths are IMO completely explainable by the fact that even city dwellers will be exposed to a far lower viral load

[Deleted User]

growleaves wrote: »

Like I said, lame excuses about "Swedish culture" are supposed to explain the discrepancy between 1,000s of deaths and 100,000s of deaths (see above).

Iowa with a population of 3.155 million has had 136 deaths with no lockdown. Its not all isolated farmland either, it has 30 cities.

Handwashing, social distancing and other mitigation strategies play a role in preventing spread but the added edge gained by stopping people from working or seeing people they know may be quite small, especially given that outdoor transmission appears quite low.

There will be scientific investigations into the actual efficacy of the lockdown in time.

Connecticut, 3.5 million, 2,000 deaths.

Who was claiming 100,000's deaths here by the way?

Rodin

Speakerboxx wrote: »

People are not adhering to restrictions anyway. Time to open the floodgates.

Like saying....
There'll always be ways to outfox airport security.
Might as well not have it

easypazz

gozunda wrote: »

The IMF would beg to disagree with your evident expert knowledge ...

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1129580/

Did you read the article?

It undermines your argument.

You said:

Will there be an economic downturn globally next year? Yes there will.

The IMF said:

She warned that "global growth will turn sharply negative in 2020,"

Even in the best case the IMF expects only a "partial recovery" next year,

The downturn will happen this year, and output will reach a very low point, but once things reopen, there will be a modest upturn.

[Deleted User]

easypazz wrote: »

Did you read the article?

It undermines your argument.

You said:

Will there be an economic downturn globally next year? Yes there will.

The IMF said:

She warned that "global growth will turn sharply negative in 2020,"

Even in the best case the IMF expects only a "partial recovery" next year,

The downturn will happen this year, and output will reach a very low point, but once things reopen, there will be a modest upturn.

The economy will recover. When will the dead recover?

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

The economy will recover. When will the dead recover?

The economy can also run out of money. At which point we wouldn't have money to pay people or invest in health. Then way more die.

Too many foolish people on here that don't understand the importance of the economy.

hmmm

Speakerboxx wrote: »

People are not adhering to restrictions anyway. Time to open the floodgates.

Nonsense, the vast majority are.

SAMTALK

Deleted User wrote: »

The economy can also run out of money. At which point we wouldn't have money to pay people or invest in health. Then way more die.

Too many foolish people on here that don't understand the importance of the economy.

Nearly as many people that don't understand how important it is to adhere to regulations

Speakerboxx

hmmm wrote: »

Nonsense, the vast majority are.

Not everyone is though and that's the problem.

BillyBiggs

Any stats available on how many are dying because they can’t have their operations in hospitals?

JPCN1

Long_Wave wrote: »

There are 125 elected TDS who could remove Leo and co today if they wanted to but they choose not to.

FG should be looking to offload him after that election result.

ixoy

SAMTALK wrote: »

Nearly as many people that don't understand how important it is to adhere to regulations

It is possible to understand the need for a functioning economy and adhere to sensible regulations. They're not exclusive, nor is it a case of either health vs wealth.

Speakerboxx

SAMTALK wrote: »

Nearly as many people that don't understand how important it is to adhere to regulations

People are breaking all regulations. We don't see half of it.

is_that_so

Speakerboxx wrote: »

Not everyone is though and that's the problem.

It was never expected to be 100%, just a pretty large majority.

Thelonious Monk

Speakerboxx wrote: »

Not everyone is though and that's the problem.

No but people are for the most part, and that's what's keeping the numbers down. There'll always be people who don't follow rules.

Theboinkmaster

gozunda wrote: »

Your logic is truely based on historic levels of ignorance even compared to some of the other contributions on this thread.

The current restrictions are designed to prevent our health service being overwhelmed and to continue to keep down levels of infection in the general population.

That you seemingly cannot appreciate either of those two most basic concepts is truely staggering.

Edit: And yes restrictions will be eased going forward. Will that be because you want it so? No.

Your inability to read is staggering - I said this myself in post #4741.

growleaves

Deleted User wrote: »

Who was claiming 100,000's deaths here by the way?

Simon Harris: This could go well beyond the health service

The Minister for Health Simon Harris has said that he is taking seriously the advice of expert epidemiologist Professor Sam McConkey who predicted there could be between 80,000 and 120,000 deaths in Ireland from coronavirus.

The prediction of 100,000s of deaths were for bigger countries:

Post #8132

SAMTALK

ixoy wrote: »

It is possible to understand the need for a functioning economy and adhere to sensible regulations. They're not exclusive, nor is it a case of either health vs wealth.

Absoutely not. I totally agree with you but my point is that it's not all about the economy either

We have to find a middle ground but the biggest problem is that you give an inch and people will take a mile so it's going to take time to sort this to a level that keeps people safe and also get the economy moving again

People seem to think it's a case of " ok back to the way your were please "

Plans / rules have to be put in place 1st . Employers have to understand it's not just a case of opening the doors again

Theboinkmaster

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree the time is coming to start to open up, step by step, however what have we actually done? And by we I mean those of us not on the frontline or maintaining critical services. Sit home and watch netflix and post ****e on boards. Maybe do a bit of extra gardening if we have that option. God help us. Our sacrifice will be remembered for generations to come.

That's an incredibly ignorant post. I'm loving the lockdown myself it suits me.

However there are many many people in Ireland who are suffering seriously during this lockdown - women violence and children helpline call volumes up significantly proves this alone.

Gael23

Met a couple well up in their 80s out for a walk at lunchtime.
The game is up

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

The economy can also run out of money. At which point we wouldn't have money to pay people or invest in health. Then way more die.

Too many foolish people on here that don't understand the importance of the economy.

It is important, but, equally, it is not of paramount importance.

If we were told a year ago that there would be a need to shut down as has been done, we would have been told that that would not happen, and that it couldn't happen.

Hooked

Deleted User wrote: »

ECB can and will print money

How does this "actually" work?
Not sarcasm... genuine question.
I'm a total economic numpty...

[Deleted User]

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

That's an incredibly ignorant post. I'm loving the lockdown myself it suits me.

However there are many many people in Ireland who are suffering seriously during this lockdown - women violence and children helpline call volumes up significantly proves this alone.

And the thousands of people who now wont die?

ixoy

SAMTALK wrote: »

People seem to think it's a case of " ok back to the way your were please "

Do people actually think that? I see very little of that here. Most are calling for a gradual phased re-opening and are happy to see added security measures that weren't there before. Very very few asking, or expecting, for an immediate rollback. I imagine the general public is of the same opinion.