Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Rodin wrote: »

My local Aldi has hand sanitiser at the front door.
How many hands that have touched it before me is acceptable ?

Who cares, the trick is to sanitize your hands after you touch it. Basic stuff really.

road_high

Penfailed wrote: »

Donegal was rammed.

Donegal has one large town that no tourists even go to. The rest has a very low population density- it wasn't "rammed". It's not Singapore.

boring accountant

Penfailed wrote: »

It wasn't though. Everywhere was jammed.

Even if it were true it’s likely that the numbers out visiting these spots would have normalised if people had been allowed visit them the entire time. Much like the numbers queuing to get into Tesco have normalised and the availability of certain food items has normalised too.

This was a knee jerk response to mass hysteria and we’re all suffering unnecessarily because of it.

[Deleted User]

easypazz wrote: »

That's because Ireland is the place that matters, how or why other countries handled things is not relevant.

From what I can see, if it hadn't been allowed spread through nursing homes then we would have largely missed this and be comparable to New Zealand.

I won't praise Holohan or the HSE for how they handled this.

It wasn't allowed spread. It spread like wildfire from the hundred's of thousands of people who came in and out of this country from areas of infection from beginning of February to mid March. In comparison to a trickle to New Zealand where they did not take any action any earlier than we did. By the time we and multiple other countries took action some nursing homes were riddled. New Zealand were seeded at a much lower level and reacted at the same pace as comparable countries including Ireland. They subsequently had a excellent campaign to almost eliminate new cases, but it is nothing like to situation that Europe faced.

the kelt wrote: »

As someone who works in an area that would have control over a lot of these car parks everywhere certainly wasnt jammed.

Glendalough was an issue along with a few others but the biggest issue was a bit of education for people to look past google and picking out area number 1,2 and 3 and going with those.

It seemed like people had just discovered wow theres areas you can go for nice walks in, i know lets just pick the most popular. What was offered at the time was that the most popular places could be locked up and that communicated which wasnt seen as necessary.

But for the most part no not jammed everywhere

Exactly, before the lockdown we visited a few lovely Forrest walks in and around Laois. Met probably 10 people in the 3 hours we were there.

hmmm

SusieBlue wrote: »

Very little human contact is needed to operate these kinds of facilities so there is no reason why they should not be allowed reopen on Tuesday. They absolutely are an essential service and they should never have had to close in the first place.

I agree with you that if something requires little contact it should remain open (essential or not, this isn't a penance). In fairness I don't think we had time with the speed the virus moved to get into the nitty gritty of which businesses should remain open or not, it was a fairly broad brush approach ("health and food stay open, rest close if you can't work from home").

You'd hope that for the next stage we will have good guidelines and a looser approach for businesses which can sensibly remain open with little contact - and I expect we will get those guidelines.

Rodin

GazzaL wrote: »

Not only have I put forward suggestions and ideas, I've taken action too. There are loads of businesses out there who are ready to open up, they've got hand sanitiser, PPE, social distancing plans etc. We need to be pragmatic and safe.

My local Aldi has hand sanitiser at the front door.
How many hands that have touched it before me is acceptable ?

growleaves wrote: »

I'm aware of that.

In fact local authorities in Stockholm had to forcibly close down cafes, bars and restaurants who weren't observing social distancing. Human nature is the same everywhere.

The cliche that Irish people naturally misbehave unlike Europeans/Northern Europeans/Germans/Swedes (delete as appropriate) is now the justification for turning Ireland into a halting site of ever-impoverished people.

I didn't counsel doing nothing.

I object to the sensational claims made on behalf of the lockdown which are unproven. The response is always lame excuses about Swedish culture.

It's almost like those countries treat their citizens like adults. Instead of blank bans because of a few naughty people they punish those responsible. Imagine that.

the kelt

easypazz wrote: »

Did you visit them all yourself and do an audit?

How do you know "everywhere" was jammed?

As someone who works in an area that would have control over a lot of these car parks everywhere certainly wasnt jammed.

Glendalough was an issue along with a few others but the biggest issue was a bit of education for people to look past google and picking out area number 1,2 and 3 and going with those.

It seemed like people had just discovered wow theres areas you can go for nice walks in, i know lets just pick the most popular. What was offered at the time was that the most popular places could be locked up and that communicated which wasnt seen as necessary.

But for the most part no not jammed everywhere

growleaves

Deleted User wrote: »

Sweden have not done nothing.

I'm aware of that.

In addition they tend to comply with the directives that are there, have a good sense of social responsibility and there fore wont head to the bar when not feeling feel

In fact local authorities in Stockholm had to forcibly close down cafes, bars and restaurants who weren't observing social distancing. Human nature is the same everywhere.

The cliche that Irish people naturally misbehave unlike Europeans/Northern Europeans/Germans/Swedes (delete as appropriate) is now the justification for turning Ireland into a halting site of ever-impoverished people.

and they tend to live alone a lot more than most places in Europe. The Swedish model is not a picture of what would have happened here if we did nothing

I didn't counsel doing nothing.

I object to the sensational claims made on behalf of the lockdown which are unproven. The response is always lame excuses about Swedish culture.

road_high wrote: »

I think there was a large element of "hope for the best" as with all very reactionary measures- you hope they'll blow over.

It reminds me of the quote from Indian Jones
"We have our top men working on it, top top men"

At the beginning it was prudent to err on the side of caution and lock things down. We know an awful lot more now than we did then so there's absolutely no excuse for the poor planning and communication we have seen this past couple of weeks.

Theboinkmaster

ChikiChiki wrote: »

"lockdown is killing more people than CV 19, that is obvious"

You posted that statement. Back it up with the fact.

I disagree with it because it is a blatent lie.

COVID-19 has only killed about 1,200 in Ireland - over half of which were people in nursing homes on borrowed time anyway.

Compared to lockdown impact:

- people not going to ER/doctors
- people not being let into hospitals for required treatments e.g. cancer
- childline call volume +20%
- violence against women call volume +25%
- suicides due to social isolation and economic recession
- people dropping healthcare due to economic recession
- cuts in health service budgets next year and year after due to economic recession

Think it's pretty obvious.

Penfailed wrote: »

I'm pointing out that lots of countries are having issues with nursing homes. You're fixated with the HSE and what happened in SOME nursing homes in Ireland.

That's because Ireland is the place that matters, how or why other countries handled things is not relevant.

From what I can see, if it hadn't been allowed spread through nursing homes then we would have largely missed this and be comparable to New Zealand.

I won't praise Holohan or the HSE for how they handled this.

Penfailed wrote: »

Of course I didn't. You're being facetious. It wasn't 'social media hysteria'.

"Everywhere" was jammed

Not so, plenty of places were fine.

Don't be making claims if they are not true.

easypazz wrote: »

Why are you asking me to explain what happened in foreign countries?

How on earth would I know?

I'm pointing out that lots of countries are having issues with nursing homes. You're fixated with the HSE and what happened in SOME nursing homes in Ireland.

showpony1

SusieBlue wrote: »

I see a few TD’s are pleading with Leo & Simon to allow animal grooming facilities open on the 5th.

My own dog has a coat that requires grooming every 6 weeks, he was booked in for mid March but the appointment was cancelled because animal groomers were not considered to be an essential service & they had to close.
My poor fella is so overdue a grooming at this stage that he’s absolutely miserable, I can’t even take him for long walks on warm days any more because he’s overheating from the weight of his fur.
He can barely see, his eyes are so overgrown in long hair. I already tried to get at him with a razor but he wouldn’t let me near him. We have taken to tying the fur on top of his head into a ponytail to keep it out of his eyes and face.
He’s very uncomfortable and needs to be seen to asap.

Very little human contact is needed to operate these kinds of facilities so there is no reason why they should not be allowed reopen on Tuesday. They absolutely are an essential service and they should never have had to close in the first place.

No wonder Leo is probably cracking up at this stage - TD's pleading with him to let a load of bloody doggos get their hair cut as an essential service.

Multipass

LeYouth wrote: »

How did dogs manage in the middle ages.

They weren’t bred away from health, that’s happened in the last 100 years.

[Deleted User]

LeYouth wrote: »

How did dogs manage in the middle ages.

They were bred for practicality not aesthetics

easypazz wrote: »

Did you visit them all yourself and do an audit?

How do you know "everywhere" was jammed?

Of course I didn't. You're being facetious. It wasn't 'social media hysteria'.

ChikiChiki

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Which exact part is nonsense? what do you disagree with and why exactly?

"lockdown is killing more people than CV 19, that is obvious"

You posted that statement. Back it up with the fact.

I disagree with it because it is a blatent lie.

Penfailed wrote: »

Right. Third time lucky. Can you explain why they are having serious issues in nursing homes in NI, the rest of the UK, Germany, Spain, etc., etc.? Even in Donegal were patients were not transferred have had problems.

Why are you asking me to explain what happened in foreign countries?

How on earth would I know?

road_high wrote: »

Where's "everywhere"? Glendalough (which can't take a big crowd in my experience) and some of the beaches. Vast majority of places were/are shuttered with no one there.

Donegal was rammed.

rusty the athlete

Concretejungle wrote: »

They obviously know better and we have to respect that.

You must be joking.

Penfailed wrote: »

It wasn't though. Everywhere was jammed.

Did you visit them all yourself and do an audit?

How do you know "everywhere" was jammed?

road_high

Penfailed wrote: »

It wasn't though. Everywhere was jammed.

Where's "everywhere"? Glendalough (which can't take a big crowd in my experience) and some of the beaches. Vast majority of places were/are shuttered with no one there.

easypazz wrote: »

Holohan and the HSE are common denominators.

They sent COVID-19 positive patients into care homes and things went wrong.

Right. Third time lucky. Can you explain why they are having serious issues in nursing homes in NI, the rest of the UK, Germany, Spain, etc., etc.? Even in Donegal were patients were not transferred have had problems.

LeYouth

How did dogs manage in the middle ages.

thegetawaycar

Breezin wrote: »

Those breaching the restrictions are a vanishingly small minority.

The fact that they get amplified in political messaging to suit the lockdown, in tabloid rags and in social hysterical media should not be part of the equation.

Police the hot spots, and those blatantly flouting the key restrictions. Let the rest of us get on with out lives responsibly, and free of this childish naughty step politics.

Freedom comes with responsibility, which the vast majority have demonstrated. The lockdowners don't trust the Irish, it seems, based on pretty objectionable national stereotypes.

I just want to question 2 points 1. What do you believe "Let the rest of us get on with out lives responsibly, and free of this childish naughty step politics." means to you?

The old "normal" is gone and we aren't going back to it for a long time, the travel abroad we are used to is unlikely to reappear in the near future, attending sporting events too, pubs and restaurants (unless they can adhere to social distancing (including the number of staff in the kitchen preparing it) will remain closed for a long time.

2. "Police the hot spots, and those blatantly flouting the key restrictions." What are the Key restrictions and if the lockdown laws aren't in place as we are letting people "get on with" our lives, then what exactly are they enforcing?

CalamariFritti

easypazz wrote: »

Holohan and the HSE are common denominators.

They sent COVID-19 positive patients into care homes and things went wrong.

I've seen that being said a few times now. Is there any source for this? Not doubting just wanna know.