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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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drunkmonkey

plodder wrote: »

I suppose it's only a draft document, but what is wrong with phase 1, 2, 3 .... ?

We're still in stage 1 according to Tony last night at the HSE briefing. Containment.

combat14

How is leaving cert to take place if small cafes only might be opening in mid July ...?!

kippy

Spencer Brown wrote: »

I really hope The Irish Times are hypothesising with that plan rather than having any actual concrete information....

If that's the plan, what's the problem? People were asking for a plan.

is_that_so

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

That’s easy. We’ve heard it a million times already from our leaders

At the appropriate time

And that’s why they’re is no plan at all and no end in sight.

If the plan is going to set dates, even loose ones for much later in the summer the increments need to be defined. At an appropriate time only works as a shorthand for we'll let you know closer to the time. I think the scope for its potential use in a plan is extremely limited unless it's a strong desire to show they have no plan. People will need actual dates or range of dates to be convinced of the benefit of a further two weeks. Even if we do have to go again something has to give on May 5.

easypazz

combat14 wrote: »

How is leaving cert to take place if small cafes only might be opening in mid July ...?!

The people writing those articles are making guesses, same as you or I.

stephenjmcd

For what its worth heres part of of independents article, big thing here for me is that the department of social protection and business will have their budget for the year gone by June, they aren't going to keep borrowing endlessly so something has to give.

"Taoiseach Leo Varadkar is walking a tightrope between major health concerns and mounting financial pressures that have divided the nation over the ongoing lockdown.

His own Cabinet is deeply split on how to address the health and economic impacts of the Covid-19 pandemic.

It is a microcosm of wider society as many families and businesses clamour to return to some sense of normality.

But the death toll of the coronavirus yesterday rose by 59 to total 1,159, offering a brutal reminder the health battle is far from won.

As another extension of the lockdown looms, Mr Varadkar was warned about the devastating effect the virus is having on business. Some of his closest colleagues spoke out including Paschal Donohoe, Richard Bruton and Michael Ring.

In another complication, last night it emerged that healthcare workers who have exhausted all efforts to secure childcare can take paid leave.

This could see hundreds of workers, many of them nurses, opt to stay at home, leaving hospitals and nursing homes without key staff.

Chief medical officer Dr Tony Holohan said the impact on jobs and older people weighs heavily on him, as strict measures to slow the spread of the virus are implemented.

"We understand that people are being put out of work or losing their jobs - all of these are part of our consideration as we make recommendations," he said.

However, it also emerged a third of all private sector employers are now relying on the Government's wage subsidy scheme to pay their staff, while almost 600,000 people get the €350 weekly pandemic unemployment payment.

The Cabinet also heard that the Department of Social Protection and the Department of Business will have spent their entire annual budgets by June. This might require a Dáil vote on revised estimates for both departments.

Next week there is expected to be only a very slight easing of restrictions based on the advice of the National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet). But ministers are insisting the Taoiseach consider the economic impact of closing businesses for another two weeks.

"We are all for public health safety but there are lot of companies who if they don't get a decision between now and June or August they'll be closing their doors and won't be opening them again," one minister said.

Another minister added: "We need a strong government with a mandate to make decision so it doesn't all fall back on an unelected health committee."

The Taoiseach had asked his ministers for their views on the easing of restriction after the bank holiday weekend."

drunkmonkey

Spencer Brown wrote: »

I really hope The Irish Times are hypothesising with that plan rather than having any actual concrete information....

I'm glad they ran that survey, the pressure will be on to get rid of the 2km rule.

Wouldn't mind Henry's thoughts on it as he's in one of those places where there could be a so called invasion, I can't see it happening with car parks, public toilets and nearly all businesses closed. A few home owners might arrive but I can't see an invasion.

is_that_so

kippy wrote: »

If that's the plan, what's the problem? People were asking for a plan.

In the IT story they describe an early draft without dates. That's a draft not a plan.

pjohnson

kippy wrote: »

If that's the plan, what's the problem? People were asking for a plan.

Its not the "right" plan. The experts here know better.

kippy

is_that_so wrote: »

In the IT story they describe an early draft without dates. That's a draft not a plan.

It's a draft plan without dates.
If date ranges get added where's the issue?
It's a plan that people have been asking for.

The dates would be fairly fluid I'd reckon anyway

plodder

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We're still in stage 1 according to Tony last night at the HSE briefing. Containment.

Even if the document itself isn't intended for public consumption, information in it definitely will be and it should formulated in a way that reflects the public's needs and concerns rather than the NPHET. The public don't really need to know about any distinction between initial and early phases - just that one phase follows another.

pjohnson

kippy wrote: »

It's a draft plan without dates.
If date ranges get added where's the issue?
It's a plan that people have been asking for.

The dates would be fairly fluid I'd reckon anyway

This is a key point that is ignored.

The idea seems to be that any date announced would equal 100% guarantee reopening is daft. Any large spike would delay the following parts of "the plan" anyway rendering it pointless.

Idbatterim

And people here laugh at trump! We have the opposite extreme, schools boys who don't want to " own" anything !

Varadkar must have tons of kites outside leinster house ! And varadkar said sf cant be trusted with the economy!!! lol!!!! You ready for the next recession lads?

is_that_so

kippy wrote: »

It's a draft plan without dates.
If date ranges get added where's the issue?
It's a plan that people have been asking for.

The dates would be fairly fluid I'd reckon anyway

I have a plan to start a business, but if this sentence is the only evidence of a plan it's no plan at all. This needs details for business planning, schools, parents, childcare etc. and for people's own sense of there being an exit from this. There has to be a start date and quite probably a flexible end one.

pjohnson

Idbatterim wrote: »

And people here laugh at trump! We have the opposite extreme, schools boys who don't want to " own" anything !

Varadkar must have tons of kites outside leinster house ! And varadkar said sf cant be trusted with the economy!!! lol!!!! You ready for the next recession lads?

What do you propose Ireland does to avoid the pending GLOBAL rescession?

The "economists" here that seem to think Irelands economy continuing will somehow prevent the pending recession is so cute!

ninebeanrows

I can tell you now the stories doing the rounds are pure rumour mill. The government have not yet made any decisions

They have been presented with 3 routes out of the lockdown

stephenjmcd

pjohnson wrote: »

This is a key point that is ignored.

The idea seems to be that any date announced would equal 100% guarantee reopening is daft. Any large spike would delay the following parts of "the plan" anyway rendering it pointless.

Nobody said 100% guarantee, what people want is a plan with dates and timelines attached to it, if x target isn't reached next phase is pushed back 1 week, 2 weeks, that's fine, we've seen that in other counties, everyone knows its conditional but it gives people something to work towards.

At least give businesses a bit of hope and something to work with, that's all people ask for. No more of this kicking the can down the road stuff, someone to actually make a decision..

Idbatterim

pjohnson wrote: »

Its not the "right" plan. The experts here know better.

Please, please... the experts , this makes me roll eyes at the best of times, then you introduce the word " Irish" before experts and it becomes comedy! They are experts at talking though, I'll give you that...

Would it he the same kind of experts that gave us the world most expensive hospital, a printer too big to fit inside a building without modifications? Like those experts ?

Idbatterim

pjohnson wrote: »

What do you propose Ireland does to avoid the pending GLOBAL rescession?

The "economists" here that seem to think Irelands economy continuing will somehow prevent the pending recession is so cute!

Right, so the actions we take here, have no effect on us, financially, emotionally, from a mental health perspective?

is_that_so

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Nobody said 100% guarantee, what people want is a plan with dates and timelines attached to it, if x target isn't reached next phase is pushed back 1 week, 2 weeks, that's fine. But at least give business a bit of hope and something to work with.

Yep, this planning is already underway in organisations and they are mostly just waiting for the dates to firm things up.

easypazz

pjohnson wrote: »

What do you propose Ireland does to avoid the pending GLOBAL rescession?

The "economists" here that seem to think Irelands economy continuing will somehow prevent the pending recession is so cute!

Who said there will be a global recession?

stephenjmcd

is_that_so wrote: »

Yep, this planning is already underway in organisations and they are mostly just waiting for the dates to firm things up.

Yup, I know people involved in non essential retail, the hospitality sector, all ready to go with measures in place. Longer they stay closed higher the chance they just wont reopen at all.

hmmm

Straight Talker wrote: »

It's not realistic to expect people, to stay away from their loved ones for months on end.

The timetable is driven by a virus, not the government.

Fair enough you think it's "not realistic", but the virus isn't interested in your needs.

I expect that the general population will be told to avoid close contact with older people, and younger people with significant issues, until we have a vaccine next year. There's no magic wand the government or public health can wave which suddenly makes this virus not be very dangerous to them.

Spencer Brown

pjohnson wrote: »

Its not the "right" plan. The experts here know better.

Give it a rest FFS

snotboogie

Spencer Brown wrote: »

I really hope The Irish Times are hypothesising with that plan rather than having any actual concrete information....

What do people expect? The best case scenario is that the 2km exercise rule gets extended a bit, maybe a small relaxation on outdoor activity for over 70's, some specialist shops like garden centres opening with strict social distancing rules and outdoor jobs like construction returning to work.

Unless you are over 70, have some extraordinary amenity (that is still open, maybe a beach or a park?) between 2km and 5km from your home or work in the building trade the relaxation of restrictions will have no material impact on you.

The big ticket items like schools and offices reopening are months off. The really big ticket item, not having to be 2 metres away from anybody not in your household, has no solution in sight. Nobody know how we stop social distancing and the my guess is that we will still be doing it well into 2021. It seems the only thing that could change this in 2020 is a miracle drug being found.

Banana Republic.

kwestfan08 wrote: »

That is one depressing timeline. Essentially no meeting up with any friends either socially or travelling with them on any kind of holiday throughout the whole summer.

As depressing as it is, it makes totally logical sense, the first ones to close will be the last to open. The meeting up of ppl like friends and family is the crux of the issues, we have more contact together, hugs, kisses, long amounts of time together in close proximity, at least if we had a timeline there’s light at the end of the tunnel.

robbiezero

easypazz wrote: »

Who said there will be a global recession?

Ignore him. Every post is just a sneer. Pure keyboard warrior.

easypazz

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Yup, I know people involved in non essential retail, the hospitality sector, all ready to go with measures in place. Longer they stay closed higher the chance they just wont reopen at all.

And all working with relevant representative bodies who are working with the relevant department to follow agreed protocols.

This kind of story won't sell newspapers though.

is_that_so

hmmm wrote: »

The timetable is driven by a virus, not the government.

Fair enough you think it's "not realistic", but the virus isn't interested in your needs.

I expect that the general population will be told to avoid close contact with older people, and younger people with significant issues, until we have a vaccine next year. There's no magic wand the government or public health can wave which suddenly makes this virus not be very dangerous to them.

No, there isn't but it is unrealistic to wait for a vaccine. The virus will most probably remain with us, the challenge is to manage it. As time goes by more will be learnt about it, including how it might be kept at a far less destructive level.

is_that_so

snotboogie wrote: »

What do people expect? The best case scenario is that the 2km exercise rule gets extended a bit, maybe a small relaxation on outdoor activity for over 70's, some specialist shops like garden centres opening with strict social distancing rules and outdoor jobs like construction returning to work.

Unless you are over 70, have some extraordinary amenity (that is still open, maybe a beach or a park?) between 2km and 5km from your home or work in the building trade the relaxation of restrictions will have no material impact on you.

The big ticket items like schools and offices reopening are months off. The really big ticket item, not having to be 2 metres away from anybody not in your household, has no solution in sight. Nobody know how we stop social distancing and the my guess is that we will still be doing it well into 2021. It seems the only thing that could change this in 2020 is a miracle drug being found.

I know of offices who are back in next week and of others planning for some increased activity in May.