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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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Tenzor07

appledrop wrote: »

Dr. Holohan has a lot to answer for nursing homes when he criticised them for restricting visitors very early on. That was the biggest mistake of all.

Is Holohan the best we have??

On March 10th 2020, chief medical officer Dr Tony Holohan said the blanket restrictions should be lifted because they were premature and impacted on residents’ social interactions.

The most senior Government health adviser advised against a review of CervicalCheck the day after Vicky Phelan called for an investigation into the screening programme.

Instead, Tony Holohan, Department of Health chief medical officer (CMO), urged the health minister to opt for a report which Dr Holohan himself would prepare.

KrustyUCC

Muahahaha wrote: »

So what do people think is going to happen? Leo on the tele on Sunday announcing another 3 weeks of lockdown, maybe even another 4 weeks to get us beyond the June bank holiday weekend? Seems everything is pointing in that direction right now. He might do two weeks then add another two in mid May.

Will be two and two

Same thing really

Death by a thousand cuts

RugbyLad11

Martin567 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/the-irish-times-view-on-easing-restrictions-the-state-s-side-of-the-bargain-1.4240385?mode=amp

Really good editorial in the Irish Times also.

It's good to see that some journalist are seeing the bull**** in this just like us

GT89

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Any extension is basically the mess in nursing homes etc and lack of testing

Neither of which the general public had any effect on

The vast vast majority of the general public have done our bit

If people are starting to breach the restrictions now then even more will breach them in a weeks time. Look at the traffic on the road compared to a week or two ago. Are they all going to essential jobs?

RoryMac

Muahahaha wrote: »

So what do people think is going to happen? Leo on the tele on Sunday announcing another 3 weeks of lockdown, maybe even another 4 weeks to get us beyond the June bank holiday weekend? Seems everything is pointing in that direction right now. He might do two weeks then add another two in mid May.

I think the announcement is due on Friday and I expect him to waffle on about being almost there and a last push will get us over the line. No mention of the failure to protect care homes or that they sent people with the disease to these homes in an attempt to make room in hospitals.

Doubt we'll see a fully laid out plan for getting on top of the issue and working towards relaxing the restrictions. Seriously doubt he'll mention that they slapped down the care home managers when they tried to lock down these facilities in early March to protect the patients.

Jinglejangle69

RoryMac wrote: »

I think the announcement is due on Friday and I expect him to waffle on about being almost there and a last push will get us over the line. No mention of the failure to protect care homes or that they sent people with the disease to these homes in an attempt to make room in hospitals.

Doubt we'll see a fully laid out plan for getting on top of the issue and working towards relaxing the restrictions. Seriously doubt he'll mention that they slapped down the care home managers when they tried to lock down these facilities in early March to protect the patients.

You doubt a lot.

Lets wait and see what happens in friday.

Then we can take to the streets with pitchforks.

KrustyUCC

GT89 wrote: »

If people are starting to breach the restrictions now then even more will breach them in a weeks time. Look at the traffic on the road compared to a week or two ago. Are they all going to essential jobs?

Yes I think that's a good possibility especially if the government do not have a clear plan in Place by the weekend

Not all no but a good proportion is

Or has other explanations

For instance my aunt drops shopping to the grandparents every second week so that's an extra car this week

appledrop

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

It's good to see that some journalist are seeing the bull**** in this just like us

It's the most read article on their website + has over 90 comments.

I hope all the government ministers got their copy of The Irish Times this morning + start coping themselves on.

P2C

In the north west the nursing homes have had restricted visitors since the department advice on visitor restrictions yet cases are now only beginning to present in nursing homes. The only people that are allowed into nursing homes are staff for the last few weeks yet their is a steady spread through these facilities. The staff are bringing the virus into the nursing homes and in some cases residents returning from hospital. Your statement around Tony’s biggest mistake off all I don’t think would of made a big difference in our area in the grand scheme of things. Unfortunately staff of nursing homes have families and live life outside the setting and their will always be the risk of spread into and out of the facility. if spread="appledrop;113303256"]I would 100% agree. It's very sad what's happening in nursing homes but really that's HSE issue know + only they can fix it.

Dr. Holohan has a lot to answer for nursing homes when he criticised them for restricting visitors very early on. That was the biggest mistake of all.[/quote]

FintanMcluskey

Tell me how wrote: »

That's a gross misrepresentation of what has been going on.

No its not. The crisis is not in the community, its not in the movement of people, its not going be prevented by armed detectives standing at the entrance to a forest in Wicklow.
The crisis is in the nursing and care home's. Thats not a misrepresentation, thats where the immediate healthcare issue is.

There is another healthcare issue imminent that I think will greatly outweigh Covid in this country, and that is the cancellation of surgeries, treatments and consultations in private hospital settings for 6 months. That is going suspend for up to 6 months diagnosis and treatment of fatal issues. 1700 beds free at present and will be free for 6 months. The death toll from this crisis will be unimaginable.

DebDynamite

Tenzor07 wrote: »

From what I heard on RTE from Cillian De Gascun, they say that if they let the over 70s out for a couple of hours a day it would mean that others would be under a more severe lockdown.

No indication that the 2k limit will be chang ed to 5k either, he basically said "We want people to stay at home..."

no f9ckin plan at all..

A load of bull. The over 70s are always allowed out. They had the same freedom was everyone else. It was advised, for their own safety, but not mandatory. Now they’re saying they’re allowing them out for one hour’s exercise and passing that off as lifting some of the restrictions and giving us something back, bit it was never a restriction in the first place!!

SleetAndSnow

Regardless of how Friday goes I hope nobody here goes full Gemma. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3365103813534233&id=518620081515968&d=null&vh=e

Telling a guard who's just doing as she's told to watch out and "remember who your masters are", that she'll be stripped of her pension and her job and uniform. Probably just out of the Garda reserve. Restrictions or no restrictions please don't do this to people who most likely don't want to be doing it in the first place.

RoryMac

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

You doubt a lot.

Lets wait and see what happens in friday.

Then we can take to the streets with pitchforks.

I'm not usually this grumpy but it's been a long day!

We kind of know what's going to be said, some building sites and DIY stores to open, maybe some hospitals opening for cancer treatment etc everyone else on the naughty step for another 2 weeks

GreenandRed

P2C wrote: »

In the north west the nursing homes have had restricted visitors since the department advice on visitor restrictions yet cases are now only beginning to present in nursing homes. The only people that are allowed into nursing homes are staff for the last few weeks yet their is a steady spread through these facilities. The staff are bringing the virus into the nursing homes and in some cases residents returning from hospital. Your statement around Tony’s biggest mistake off all I don’t think would of made a big difference in our area in the grand scheme of things. Unfortunately staff of nursing homes have families and live life outside the setting and their will always be the risk of spread into and out of the facility. if spread="appledrop;113303256"]I would 100% agree. It's very sad what's happening in nursing homes but really that's HSE issue know + only they can fix it.

Dr. Holohan has a lot to answer for nursing homes when he criticised them for restricting visitors very early on. That was the biggest mistake of all.

[/QUOTE]

Some of them are isolating staff from families while on work shifts and isolating them and getting them tested if they show COVID symptoms. They were very understaffed with staff showing signs, being tested and staying away for min 2 weeks. Hindsight is a great thing. This sounds very harsh, I know, but is it impossible to think that, with resources low and ncertainty high, a few weeks ago they decided to leave carehomes, less chance of younger people getting sick and some older people if they get sick are les able to work and help with frontline workers.

Assetbacked

RoryMac wrote: »

I'm not usually this grumpy but it's been a long day!

We kind of know what's going to be said, some building sites and DIY stores to open, maybe some hospitals opening for cancer treatment etc everyone else on the naughty step for another 2 weeks

Hopefully, irrespective of what is said, people start to use a common sense approach with less of an influence from the draconian official lockdown guidance. For example, more restaurants and cafes opening for takeaway, contactless, etc. The 2km arbitrary distance not being followed as people make sure to social distance.

Long_Wave

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

Regardless of how Friday goes I hope nobody here goes full Gemma. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3365103813534233&id=518620081515968&d=null&vh=e

Telling a guard who's just doing as she's told to watch out and "remember who your masters are", that she'll be stripped of her pension and her job and uniform. Probably just out of the Garda reserve. Restrictions or no restrictions please don't do this to people who most likely don't want to be doing it in the first place.

Gemma is mad and annoyong but it's a shame that herself and John Waters are the only people with any kind of profile calling out the bullshít. FFS, all we get from RTE is Wall to wall "let's beat this virus" and "put on the green jersey" propaganda

pgj2015

gemma and walters are a very bad duo to have as an opposition to the restrictions. stripped of the uniform, what is she on about? she should be locked up in an asylum. as for walters, anyone who marries sinead o connor isnt the best voice of reason in fairness.

Arghus

SNNUS wrote: »

Excellent article in The Irish Times how they are deflecting blame onto Joe public

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/blame-for-expected-extended-lockdown-shifted-onto-the-public-1.4239955?mode=amp

The article is right to point out that there has been failings on the part of the HSE, DOH and the government's response.

But that doesn't mean that the public as a whole can just relax now and expect some sort of reward. Restrictions are still necessary, because the virus is still at too high a level in the community

Cillian De Gascun was asked about the article on Prime Time, he acknowledged that not every thing on the authorities part has been perfect, but that doesn't mean that we the people are in a situation where we can just say, "ah, yeah, fck it, it'll be grand."

Jinglejangle69

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/germans-urged-to-stay-home-as-coronavirus-infection-rate-edges-back-up-1.4240157?mode=amp

"Germans urged to stay home as coronavirus infection rate edges back up"

For all the geniuses here lauding other countries easing restrictions.

Arghus

Gael23 wrote: »

We have kept our side of the bargain but not the AHSE. Mass disobedience will soon begin

Your reward will be loads more hospitalisation and deaths.

Arghus

RoryMac wrote: »

Yeah that is the question alright, the r0.5 was what we were told we were striving for and have achieved that so....

It has to stay there for a period. You don't just work hard to get to that r0 rate and immediately take your foot off the gas.

FintanMcluskey

GreenandRed wrote: »

He's not asking questions that he doesn't already know where to find the answers from given his extensive lists of contacts, or asking questions that no-one knows the answer to.

This is the exact opposite of whats actually happening.

Arghus

Good interview with one of the key German experts, he specifically mentions the prevention paradox, which about 90% of the posters here seem completely oblivious to:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/26/virologist-christian-drosten-germany-coronavirus-expert-interview

Assetbacked

"Cafes and restaurants could reopen by the middle of the summer, with people allowed travel within Ireland for holidays by late summer, under plans being discussed to gradually lift the coronavirus lockdown."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/phased-exit-from-coronavirus-lockdown-may-see-cafes-reopen-by-mid-summer-1.4240404?mode=amp

Mid summer = mid-June!

"Under the latest draft, the first phase would allow the over-70s who are cocooning out to walk on a “no touch” basis; allow outdoor workers such as builders and gardeners return to work; allow a maximum of four people not from the same household gather outside while obeying social distancing; recommence some restricted classes for Leaving Cert students; potentially increase the distance people can travel outside their home for exercise from 2km to 5km or 10km; allow retailers such as DIY and garden centres reopen; and allow retail outlets deemed essential in an earlier round of restrictions – such as banks, repair shops, optometrists and others – open again.

The next phase – “early phase stage one” – would allow small retailers reopen by allowing only a limited number of staff and customers on the premises. Restrictions on travel away from the home could increase to 20km. Open marts could also recommence.

“Early stage phase two” would see cafes and restaurants reopen, as long as social distancing and strict cleaning rules apply.

The so-called “middle phases” would see the tourism industry – hotels, hostels, caravan parks – reopen on a limited occupancy basis. Travel restrictions would be further eased to allow people travel outside their regions. Any holidays or breaks should be taken by family units only.

The “later phases” would see the wider reopening of the economy – such as pubs and offices – again if social distancing is implemented. Schools would also reopen in September, again complying with social distancing. Mass gatherings of over 5,000 people have already been effectively cancelled until September.

Guidance around these events is unlikely to be provided until much later in the year, similar to family events such as weddings. Cocooning is also expected to last for the foreseeable future, until vaccines or treatments for Covid-19 are found."

Arghus

Assetbacked wrote: »

"Cafes and restaurants could reopen by the middle of the summer, with people allowed travel within Ireland for holidays by late summer, under plans being discussed to gradually lift the coronavirus lockdown."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/phased-exit-from-coronavirus-lockdown-may-see-cafes-reopen-by-mid-summer-1.4240404?mode=amp

Mid summer = mid-June!

I would have been shocked if it was any earlier.

Edit: The article has disappeared from the IT site.

Long_Wave

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/germans-urged-to-stay-home-as-coronavirus-infection-rate-edges-back-up-1.4240157?mode=amp

"Germans urged to stay home as coronavirus infection rate edges back up"

For all the geniuses here lauding other countries easing restrictions.

Nobody is disputing that cases will rise when restrictions are lifted

Charles Babbage

Assetbacked wrote: »

Hopefully, irrespective of what is said, people start to use a common sense approach with less of an influence from the draconian official lockdown guidance. For example, more restaurants and cafes opening for takeaway, contactless, etc. The 2km arbitrary distance not being followed as people make sure to social distance.

Breaking of rules by people with common sense is inevitably used as an excuse by people without common sense or integrity.

Stheno

Assetbacked wrote: »

Hopefully, irrespective of what is said, people start to use a common sense approach with less of an influence from the draconian official lockdown guidance. For example, more restaurants and cafes opening for takeaway, contactless, etc. The 2km arbitrary distance not being followed as people make sure to social distance.

Have you not listened to the news?

No changes currently planned

NONE

Assetbacked

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Breaking of rules by people with common sense is inevitably used as an excuse by people without common sense or integrity.

You should probably follow the guidelines very carefully.

Arghus

Long_Wave wrote: »

Nobody is disputing that cases will rise when restrictions are lifted

Some are. "The job is already done. "We've done our part."