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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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growleaves

omeara1113 wrote: »

I di think a lot if sites have great intentions but it doesn't always run to plan toilets canteens are not normally kept the builder sees cleaning and keeping it clean a waste of a labour's time working in houses is also a problem when you have tilers sparks plumbers painters on top of each other every doing there work but circumstances mean there all on top of each other

Agree with this, but if its keep it clean and stay apart or you're def out of a job it might be a different story. Most people are genuinely afraid of this virus so that must include lots of construction workers.

CruelSummer

If the headline in the Independent is true today, I'm going to seriously question what the agenda of the people in charge is currently.

1. Why are the restrictions being extended when the outbreaks are in nursing and care homes now?
2. How does the government propose we come back out of lockdown and why delay this for another two weeks when the R0 is already below one? We will never have the testing capacity being bandied around in the last few days.
3. What is the governments plan to compensate the thousands upon thousands of jobs that will be lost in the tourism and hospitality sector in the coming weeks? Where will this money come from?
4. What is the governments plan re paying for MASS UNEMPLOYMENT which will be severely worsened by their decision to extend restrictions. Where is the incentive for people to return to work, plan for the future, will there even be a job waiting for them?
5. Does this government and its doctors have any clue where they are taking us?
6. In years to come, who will have to answer for the severe medical, pshychological, and mental health damage extending this lockdown will have on children in particular and the wider population.
7. How many more people are going to die of cancer and other conditions as a result of this decision should they take it.
I know people waiting for vital tests, eg. colonoscopy, etc., none of these are being done. MADNESS.

Penfailed

boring accountant wrote: »

This really takes the biscuit.

If the powers that be are creating policy based on the belief that you need to be a fully qualified medical professional to use a mask properly then I have no faith in their judgement.

You shouldn't even be wearing a dust mask on a building site now unless you've been face fit tested. It's the way of the world these days.

RugbyLad11

hmmm wrote: »

No-one is arguing masks don't help to block droplets. What the issues are is:
1. Supplies of scarce PPE being diverted from those who need it
2. Badly used masks are more dangerous than no mask (people touching their faces)
3. False confidence with mask wearers that they are invulnerable
4. Panic amongst people looking to get masks

Masks are a distraction and make a minor impact. If we could get people to wash their hands properly, and social distance properly, it's significantly more important than masks.

How come all the counties doing well in the fight of this virus make masks mandatory in public? China, Korea, Vietnam to name a few...

[Deleted User]

CruelSummer wrote: »

If the headline in the Independent is true today, I'm going to seriously question what is the agenda of the people in charge is currently.

1. Why are the restrictions being extended when the outbreaks are in nursing and care homes now?
2. How does the government propose we come back out of lockdown and why delay this for another two weeks when the R0 is already below zero? We will never have the testing capacity being bandied around in the last few days.
3. What is the governments plan to compensate the thousands upon thousands of jobs that will be lost in the tourism and hospitality sector in the coming weeks? Where will this money come from?
4. What is the governments plan re paying for MASS UNEMPLOYMENT which will be severely worsened by their decision to extend restrictions. Where is the incentive for people to return to work, plan for the future, will there even be a job waiting for them?
5. Does this government and its doctors have any clue where they are taking us?
6. In years to come, who will have to answer for the severe medical, pshychological, and mental health damage extending this lockdown will have on children in particular and the wider population.
7. How many more people are going to die of cancer and other conditions as a result of this decision should they take it.
I know people waiting for vital tests, eg. colonoscopy, etc., none of these are being done. MADNESS.

I think the first question to ask is- who’s n charge?

I’ve a relative in a nursing home in which at least 22 people have died this month- most from Covid 19
50% of deaths in Ireland from Covid are people in care- those people didn’t go to their summer house, or holiday in a ski resort or went horse racing- the virus got to them through outsiders and staff.

Politicians take advice from experts but ultimately they should own the decision themselves.

If we had better care for those in our nursing homes, our death statistics from Covid could be much different.

Our economy has to reopen. People with other medical conditions need to be tended to and looked after too.

There will be a lot worse to deal with if lockdown continues in its current format.

seamus

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

How come all the counties doing well in the fight of this virus make masks mandatory in public? China, Korea, Vietnam to name a few...

That's pretty specious. Mask-wearing levels were already high across many Asian countries. There's no data to suggest that everyone wearing masks will help.

The poster children for success that people love to trot out - New Zealand and Sweden - have no mandatory mask wearing in place.

C__MC

The government have put in a huge PR campaign on this virus on social media that we are all doing our part wearing the Jersey yada yada a great we country but it is becoming a mess

Other countries in similar size doing a much better job
The Northern Ireland travel route is flawed
The economy going to take a beating like never before
Slow test results
Nursing homes in limbo
No plan to exit lockdown

Penfailed

CruelSummer wrote: »

2. How does the government propose we come back out of lockdown and why delay this for another two weeks when the R0 is already below zero?

It's not below zero...because it's not possible.

CruelSummer

Penfailed wrote: »

It's not below zero...because it's not possible.

Yes I meant below 1. That was a target set, has been met and now the goalposts have been moved for no apparent reason.

easypazz

omeara1113 wrote: »

Read this on another forum I cant believe how true it is but dont worry rush the construction workers back to work "sarcasm "
There is a huge amount of shared vehicles between site workers. There is a lot of passing and sharing of tools, wheelbarrows, shovels, tape measures etc. There are a lot of shared surfaces, ladders, scaffolding rails, canteen and toilet doors. The welfare units are tiny, crammed in like sardines. Many eat in their cars, but many have no transport. Wasing the hands and using the jacks are done in tiny spaces. Believe me, site toilets are some of the most filthy places imaginable. There's the rush to the local deli counter at break or on the way in. Many jobs on sites need to be done in close proximity to others. People go to work sick on sites because there is often no sick pay plus the workers are regularly told they are disposable, if they dont show up there are others who will take their place. Sites were rife with people who were sick but keeping schtum before lockdown. Will companies invest in more tools to avoid sharing? They will in their holes. The 15 minute CIF Covid induction online, a big skite of posters plastered everywhere like miraculous medals, an update to the RAMS docs done by bosses safely at hone and off yiz go to the frontline. Let's see how many of ye are standing in 3 months

Whoever wrote that isn't even capable of breaking it into paragraphs.

Its a load of blarney.

We could write the same rubbish about shops, schools, buses, dentists, restaurants etc. etc.

I've worked on sites and in general the plasters might be doing a few houses, the plumbers the next few, the electricians elsewhere.

Lads usually eat in the house they are working in.

Wash your hands or use sanitiser after using the jacks.

People don't share tools across sites, members of the same crew maybe.

Some desperados will stop at nothing to try and justify maintaining the current lockdown.

RugbyLad11

seamus wrote: »

That's pretty specious. Mask-wearing levels were already high across many Asian countries. There's no data to suggest that everyone wearing masks will help.

The poster children for success that people love to trot out - New Zealand and Sweden - have no mandatory mask wearing in place.

How can you seriously argue that wearing a mask doesn't help? If joe blogs wears a mask and has the virus without symptoms he will not be spreading it

Even Germany is making it mandatory to wear masks in public otherwise you'll get fined

VonLuck

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

How can you seriously argue that wearing a mask doesn't help? If joe blogs wears a mask and has the virus without symptoms he will not be spreading it

I'd be more worried about someone who doesn't have it and is constantly fidgeting with their mask and catches Covid as a result.

drunkmonkey

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

How can you seriously argue that wearing a mask doesn't help? If joe blogs wears a mask and has the virus without symptoms he will not be spreading it

Even Germany is making it mandatory to wear masks in public otherwise you'll get fined

Nobody knows how to use one is the problem. I've seen people adjusting their masks, the general public haven't a clue about the dangers of them. If you've a viral load on the mask that didn't pass through to you and then you touch the mask you've just given yourself a dose if you don't wash your hands in the first place, your adding a layer of risk that does not exist if your keeping your distance.
I haven't seen masks for sale in spar or centra that come with an instruction booklet, use them wrong and your worse off than using none.
How many people even wash there hands properly, the same for gloves people don't know how to use them correctly.
The simplest advice about hand washing and distancing is the best thing to do.

[Deleted User]

Penfailed wrote: »

It's not below zero...because it's not possible.

If you get it then you immediately throw yourself off the cliffs of moher....Would that make it less than 0?!

Ellie1988

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

How can you seriously argue that wearing a mask doesn't help? If joe blogs wears a mask and has the virus without symptoms he will not be spreading it

Even Germany is making it mandatory to wear masks in public otherwise you'll get fined

Additionally...my sister had to get a flight in march and she wore a mask. She said she didn't touch her face once during the 3 hour flight cos she had it on her face, and of course she kept washing her hands and using hand sanitizer throughout as well. I think that alone is a good enough reason to wear one

drunkmonkey

VonLuck wrote: »

I'd be more worried about someone who doesn't have it and is constantly fidgeting with their mask and catches Covid as a result.

Thankfully someone else gets it, I've seen people pull down their masks to talk catching it from the front. Masks are not something I trust the public to use correctly.

stephenjmcd

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1255113194441449473?s=19

easypazz

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1255113194441449473?s=19

Translates to all the media were talking sh1t today.

Also translates to Holohan will give his opinion but cabinet may overrule him if necessary...…again

Irish Aris

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Nobody knows how to use one is the problem. I've seen people adjusting their masks, the general public haven't a clue about the dangers of them. If you've a viral load on the mask that didn't pass through to you and then you touch the mask you've just given yourself a dose if you don't wash your hands in the first place, your adding a layer of risk that does not exist if your keeping your distance.
I haven't seen masks for sale in spar or centra that come with an instruction booklet, use them wrong and your worse off than using none.
How many people even wash there hands properly, the same for gloves people don't know how to use them correctly.
The simplest advice about hand washing and distancing is the best thing to do.

Thanks for the explanation drunkmonkey. I was a bit confused on why it isn't a good idea to wear one.
My only concern was/is public transport. Between March 12th and March 26th when I was going to Dublin (I live in Drogheda so have to take a bus) I wore a mask as a precaution - mainly so I don't touch my face. My approach was: last thing before I left home was to wash my hands and then wear the mask. The mask stayed on until I arrived at my destination - there I would remove the mask and wash my hands again.
I guess I will watch out for the official instructions when the time comes and we will be allowed out and about. . .

RugbyLad11

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Nobody knows how to use one is the problem. I've seen people adjusting their masks, the general public haven't a clue about the dangers of them. If you've a viral load on the mask that didn't pass through to you and then you touch the mask you've just given yourself a dose if you don't wash your hands in the first place, your adding a layer of risk that does not exist if your keeping your distance.
I haven't seen masks for sale in spar or centra that come with an instruction booklet, use them wrong and your worse off than using none.
How many people even wash there hands properly, the same for gloves people don't know how to use them correctly.
The simplest advice about hand washing and distancing is the best thing to do.

Oh come on it's not rocket science, it's common sense how to use a mask. Plus if masks were so complicated to use the government could do a campaign instructing people how to use them and educate them.

facehugger99

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1255113194441449473?s=19

"Taoiseach said to be in listening mode."

Seriously Leo, time to put on the big boy pants and start doing the job you're being handsomely remunerated to do.

Make a fcuking decision and no more kicking the can down the road for another few weeks.

kenmm

Irish Aris wrote: »

The mask stayed on until I arrived at my destination - there I would remove the mask and wash my hands again.
I guess I will watch out for the official instructions when the time comes and we will be allowed out and about. . .

I hope wash your hands, take off the mask, then wash your hands again, as taking it off would probably mean touching your face?

hmmm

easypazz wrote: »

Also translates to Holohan will give his opinion but cabinet may overrule him if necessary...…again

Cabinet aren't going to over-rule the CMO in the middle of a pandemic.

They can't win now. The Irish public isn't mature enough to have a discussion about the costs of a lockdown, versus the deaths which will inevitably occur if it is lifted.

The public want two incompatible things - no deaths, and a lifting of restrictions.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

How come all the counties doing well in the fight of this virus make masks mandatory in public? China, Korea, Vietnam to name a few...

correlation =/= causation.

Germany is doign well, only introduced masks yesterday.

RugbyLad11

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

correlation =/= causation.

Germany is doign well, only introduced masks yesterday.

Germany is doing well but yet they still felt the need to bring in the mask policy, so what do that tell you? The Germans didn't bring the mask policy in for fun, they are much more efficient than our government so I would trust them a hell of a lot more than ours

Irish Aris

kenmm wrote: »

I hope wash your hands, take off the mask, then wash your hands again, as taking it off would probably mean touching your face?

good point, thank you kenmm.

Lyle

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

correlation =/= causation.

Germany is doign well, only introduced masks yesterday.

German R0 has gone back up to 1 or above 1 from 0.7 a few days after restriction easing so we have to wait a while longer to get a more complete picture of other countries' scenarios.

drunkmonkey

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

Oh come on it's not rocket science, it's common sense how to use a mask. Plus if masks were so complicated to use the government could do a campaign instructing people how to use them and educate them.

No it's not common sense, I see it every day people don't get it, the massive danger I see now are gloves, people with them think they have a licence to touch anything, they don't get it if it's on their gloves they can pass it from them. People aren't using this ppe correctly.

Take the checkout out girls in Dunnes, wearing the same gloves for multiple customers, adjusting their masks with those gloves, touching all your shopping with the gloves that have touched the viral load on their face mask.
I spoke to a health care professional that won't go in there over that store policy, no hand washing, just gloves and masks. Absolutely filthy practice by Dunnes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xFY3aPF7E4

Kermit.de.frog

Infection rate rising again in Germany after relaxations in some states, R moves back to 1, which means the virus is becoming more mobile again.

https://amp.dw.com/en/coronavirus-latest-transmission-rate-rises-in-germany/a-53264933?__twitter_impression=true

As I said in the other thread the WHO has warned countries not to lift restrictions early because they face a 'doom loop' of having to reimpose tougher restrictions.

This is far worse a trap for society and the economy.

We must avoid this fate ourselves.

gozunda

polesheep wrote: »

Or perhaps get on the phone to NPHET. If they don't know what phase is coming up then they should stand aside and let someone else take over.

Ah you mean the qualified eejits telling us all 'we all have to live with it" and damn the consequences?

Grand so ...