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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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Hearty80

polesheep wrote: »

If they don't ease restrictions on May 5th you will be just one of many people doing as they please, so I wouldn't worry about it. But if you are basing this on the clickbait article in the Independent... don't, it's a rag that publishes lies and nonsense.

Do you think that was just clickbait? I thought it was leaked to them by the government?

polesheep

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I have not found any of this as difficult as some people make out because it isn't.

A lot of hyperbole around about 'freedom' and all that nonsense.

We are in the middle of a pandemic. This requires special measures.

It's not optional, it's not a choice as some are trying to make out.

Good for you. Good old me feinism.

It's not optional but it's also not very enforceable. And more and more people are making their own choices.

polesheep

is_that_so wrote: »

I think middle of the month, end of the month would probably be OK for May but not really beyond that.

Not a chance tbh. It has already begun to unravel and there is no logical reason the government can give for extending when we know that they haven't even tested the capacity of the hospitals and that people cannot see other people falling ill around them.

Kermit.de.frog

polesheep wrote: »

Good for you. Good old me feinism.

It's not optional but it's also not very enforceable. And more and more people are making their own choices.

People have always been able to make their own choices.

The argument does not exist.

growleaves

Analyst who bet against Anglo says 2008 crisis ‘a breeze’ compared to what is ahead

He predicts many European banks will be unable to cover bad loans arising from shutdowns, and that several will be “socialised” – or nationalised – and become “instruments of the State”.

Countries have already recorded “depression-era” figures in the economic slowdowns, he said.

“We don’t want a depression, but is it already too late to some extent? The longer we stay locked down, the higher the probability that that occurs. That is the political choice that will have to be made,” said Mr Murphy.

David Higgins, a research analyst with Carraighill, said that young people could blame government for the loss of their jobs if it is later discovered that countries such as Sweden fared better through the pandemic by not going into a severe lockdown.

“Then people will say for Ireland’s lockdown: ‘well, you shouldn’t have done that. I am unemployed now, and that is the fault of the government.’ You could have a weakening of trust between citizens and the State.”

Tenzor07

retro:electro wrote: »

The 2k rule needs to go. It makes absolutely no sense that I’m being forced to walk my dog in a busy park that I would usually avoid, when I can drive 5k to a secluded area and walk in peace and not cross paths with a sinner. Families are also being forced to walk on rural roads in order to get their exercise, roads that drivers aren’t used to seeing pedestrian traffic on are now being used by mothers and fathers out walking their children and I’m actually amazed no one has been killed or seriously injured yet.

It's not only that, but this 2km restriction is truly bringing out the Fascist in a lot of people, the amount of hyperbole and downright hostility displayed by people during this crisis really does peel the thin veneer of what we call civil society.

What people have to remember is that when this crisis reaches some sort of control and society can return to a version of normality approaching what we used to have, those same people who want to criminalise others out for a walk in the countryside, at the beach, or driving 15km to get petrol still have to see those same people, will they still view their fellow man with the same levels of contempt??

Lyle

polesheep wrote: »

Have you noticed that stories about the majority of people going home from hospital completely recovered don't pop up? Or stories about the majority of people being either asymptomatic or only mildly affected don't pop up? Bad news sells more papers.

Yeah, and I really wish some journalists would try and shine a light on those people. Its getting difficult trying to steady the mind when most developments are negative in terms of the way the virus manifests itself in different people and in different places. It was fairly painful having to wait so long for recovered stats from NPHET as well.

Hopefully the mild illness people will start showing up more, but it is also important for the outlier cases in terms of new symptoms to be researched, published and disseminated to the broader public. What if we reopened schools and then the Kawasaki or other issues rose up in late June and we had a run of very sick and dying children? There's nothing to break the spirit of a country than seeing that kind of horrible affliction in the kids.

So as much as you're right that we do need some more positive stories about milder experiences, I do still think we also very much need to hear stories and evidence about the seemingly never-ending negative impacts of this virus, even if the supposed motivation behind it is just to shift a few more papers. I think understanding the disease at its worst should take priority over hearing stories of it at its easiest.

Benimar

polesheep wrote: »

Good for you. Good old me feinism.

It's not optional but it's also not very enforceable. And more and more people are making their own choices.

And people breaking restrictions, possibly putting others health at risk isn't me feinism??

Kermit.de.frog

polesheep wrote: »

Not a chance tbh. It has already begun to unravel and there is no logical reason the government can give for extending when we know that they haven't even tested the capacity of the hospitals and that people cannot see other people falling ill around them.

How do you know people have not seen other people fall ill around them? You might not have seen it.

That's the feiner attitude right there.

polesheep

Hearty80 wrote: »

Do you think that was just clickbait? I thought it was leaked to them by the government?

You could be right and this government has a record of making announcements through leaks, however, I think they would be insane to tell people before the weekend. Although they could be kite flying.

cadaliac

Deleted User wrote: »

The restrictions are already coming to an end. A few weeks back it was almost impossible to get a Tesco delivery. Now there are lots available. That’s because people are heading out to the shops again. Plenty of people out walking, jogging and exercising every evening now. Businesses are starting to open again were possible, for example supermacs doing drive through.

Plenty of people will take their freedom back even if lockdown is extended, and rightly so.

What part do you not get? Do you understand the principal of the lock down and why the government are deploying these measures?
Yet, loads of other businesses are disregarding the rules, encouraging people to disregard the rules and now, we are in the situation we are in.
The highlighted part of your statement is reckless.

the kelt

When is "operation kick the can down the road" expected to be announced, Friday?

Two more weeks brings us conveniently to around 2 weeks from the June Bank Holiday so what odds on "operation kick the can down the road part 2" until after that bank holiday weekend?

If there was more transparency and honesty i think people would have less issues, mixed messages are all over the place and the obvious kite flying isnt helping either.

Its beginning to look like we havent handled this as well as is being portrayed at the minute, especially looking at other countries with similar or worse numbers. I mean travellers with free reign to do what they want, loopholes for people from Northern Ireland, could there actually be a chance that as bad as it assumed the UK has handled this they will get through it better and quicker than us (i havent followed the UK situation so dont honestly know, just wondering out loud)

For this to work we need compliance and buy in and i fear theyre pushing the boundaries of that, we all need to do our part, including the powers that be.

growleaves

There has been a hyper-sell of emotionalism and spin across journalism. On a social media website like this one it has been even worse.

There are people on this site who have extrapolated from hypothetical worst-case-scenarios at every given opportunity.

They never remember their wrong predictions or engage in self-reflection. Its just on to the next Spanish Flu-like scenario.

Meanwhile, other people are being ground down into poverty.

gozunda

lord quackinton wrote: »

So is there any country counting covid deaths correctly?
And if not what does that mean If we don’t know the true numbers?Check and mate

Check and mate my arse

Correct? Not your frankly rubbish league table selection for sure.

Ireland includes deaths outside hospitals - that's the point you evidently missed. Trying to make up bs comparisons with other countries who dont - doesn't really help the usual party political type propaganda diatribes being endlessly pushed on this thread

is_that_so

Benimar wrote: »

And people breaking restrictions, possibly putting others health at risk isn't me feinism??

Putting others at risk is a general justifying support for restrictions not evidential. IMO we are largely complying but for how much longer. This is a reminder of how important and urgently required a good antibody test is.

Midlife

Jesus, this is miserable reading.

What is some people's problem.

It can't all be spelt out for you because it's evolving.

They took measures, they took more measures, they said they'll meet now to discuss where to go next.

You wanted, what? An exact three month plan published 2 months ago?

polesheep

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

People have always been able to make their own choices.

The argument does not exist.

Nonsense, the point is that they will change their choice.

is_that_so

Midlife wrote: »

Jesus, this is miserable reading.

What is some people's problem.

It can't all be spelt out for you because it's evolving.

They took measures, they took more measures, they said they'll meet now to discuss where to go next.

You wanted, what? An exact three month plan published 2 months ago?

No, the plan is for this week. We're looking at a different phase coming up and people need to know what that will look like.

polesheep

Benimar wrote: »

And people breaking restrictions, possibly putting others health at risk isn't me feinism??

That's a different argument.

facehugger99

Gael23 wrote: »

Newstakk saying the over 70s will be allowed out for limited exercise

Most of them are out doing that anyway. I'm in a well-established estate with a lot of older residents and they're all out walking regularly - and rightly so.

Allowing older residents out and extending the 2km radius to 5km or 10km will make absolutely no difference to the devastating economic effects we are experiencing.

We need to get Construction back and running and we need small businesses back and running. Why are the Govt. not publishing guidelines that small businesses can begin to implement that would allow them to trade but lessen the risks of transmission to their staff and the public.

It is outrageous what is currently happening to this country. We are being presided over by bureaucrats that are part of the highly remunerated public service 'jobs-for life brigade'.They have absolutely no understanding of the challenges of life in the private sector.

You can bet your arse that the recession we face into, just like the last one, will all be about ensuring no public servant loses their job or faces too bad a pay cut. Infrastructure spending will be slashed and the construction industry fcuked over once again except this time there will be no emigration as a safety valve.

Covid-19 is a joke compared to what is coming - the penny will start to drop with the lockdown merchants eventually but by then it will be too late.

Jinglejangle69

is_that_so wrote: »

No, the plan is for this week. We're looking at a different phase coming up and people need to know what that will look like.

Can you not just wait until friday?

Spoiles kids doesn't even half describe it.

gozunda

Midlife wrote: »

Jesus, this is miserable reading.
What is some people's problem.
It can't all be spelt out for you because it's evolving.
They took measures, they took more measures, they said they'll meet now to discuss where to go next.
You wanted, what? An exact three month plan published 2 months ago?

Some seem to think that the government is in active discussion with the virus.

And as soon as negotiations are done - they can come out waving a 'Peace in our time' type declaration.

Funny they seem to forget 1) we cant negotiate with a virus and 2) the last time that type of shenanigans was declared - the world ended up in all out conflict and carnage

But sure we need to be 'rewarded' ...

:rolleyes:

[Deleted User]

Midlife wrote: »

Jesus, this is miserable reading.

What is some people's problem.

It can't all be spelt out for you because it's evolving.

They took measures, they took more measures, they said they'll meet now to discuss where to go next.

You wanted, what? An exact three month plan published 2 months ago?

Transparency. The government presumably know what targets needed to be hit for restrictions to be lifted, but they've not told us. And if they don't know, well that's even more unforgivable.

We should have been given a plan 2 weeks ago

_Kaiser_

polesheep wrote: »

If they don't ease restrictions on May 5th you will be just one of many people doing as they please, so I wouldn't worry about it. But if you are basing this on the clickbait article in the Independent... don't, it's a rag that publishes lies and nonsense.

My thought is that this has been floated so that when a slightly less restrictive plan is announced "we" will all feel like something has been "won".

Personally I haven't been home for 6 weeks and am still worried about that (live alone so security if nothing else) . I may just go regardless. Even if I end up not able to get back to where I am now, it'll only be for a fortnight.

There's zero risk in it - straight motorway drive from A to B and no people at the far end.

Jinglejangle69

AdamD wrote: »

Transparency. The government presumably know what targets needed to be hit for restrictions to be lifted, but they've not told us. And if they don't know, well that's even more unforgivable.

We should have been given a plan 2 weeks ago

Friday all will be revealed.

polesheep

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

How do you know people have not seen other people fall ill around them? You might not have seen it.

That's the feiner attitude right there.

Of course some people have, in general though, most have not. It's a cop out to bring things down to the personal experience when we are talking about society as a whole. And the point is, the longer people don't see the effects of Covid-19 first hand, the easier it becomes for them to reduce its importance. Especially when they consider what it is costing them.

gozunda

is_that_so wrote: »

No, the plan is for this week. We're looking at a different phase coming up and people need to know what that will look like.

Maybe you should get on the phone and check with the virus? I'm sure it will be able to tell you what different phase will be coming up and what that will look like ...

After that we are sorted. Grand stuff ...

Hearty80

facehugger99 wrote: »

Most of them are out doing that anyway. I'm in a well-established estate with a lot of older residents and they're all out walking regularly - and rightly so.

Allowing older residents out and extending the 2km radius to 5km or 10km will make absolutely no difference to the devastating economic effects we are experiencing.

We need to get Construction back and running and we need small businesses back and running. Why are the Govt. not publishing guidelines that small businesses can begin to implement that would allow them to trade but lessen the risks of transmission to their staff and the public.

It is outrageous what is currently happening to this country. We are being presided over by bureaucrats that are part of the highly remunerated public service 'jobs-for life brigade'.They have absolutely no understanding of the challenges of life in the private sector.

You can bet your arse that the recession we face into, just like the last one, will all be about ensuring no public servant loses their job or faces too bad a pay cut. Infrastructure spending will be slashed and the construction industry fcuked over once again except this time there will be no emigration as a safety valve.

Covid-19 is a joke compared to what is coming - the penny will start to drop with the lockdown merchants eventually but by then it will be too late.

Oh as usual throw the construction workers to the wolves, sure no one gives a ****e about them anyway. My husband had no running water to wash their hands in his job before this lockdown started. Imagine if teachers had no running water?? The unions would close the country?

Hearty80

Hearty80 wrote: »

Oh as usual throw the construction workers to the wolves, sure no one gives a ****e about them anyway. My husband had no running water to wash their hands in his job before this lockdown started. Imagine if teachers had no running water?? The unions would close the country?

I actually do want the economy to start up again, but treat everyone as equals.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

People have always been able to make their own choices.

The argument does not exist.

Except this time they haven't. Not legally. That's the whole point of the thread.