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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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almostover

dirkmeister wrote: »

Fair frustrating to see people openly flouting the restrictions.

Took the dog for a walk yesterday and there were 6 young lads holding their own little training session on the green.

The mad thing was everything they were doing they could easily have done on their own.

I didn’t have the heart to tell them they are wasting their time, there will be f*ck all hurling played this year.

Am a GAA player myself, Junior football mind, and for the first few weeks I was training away on my own. Now I'm just running 5ks to keep sane and to maintain my weight. Motivation quickly diminishes when you realise that there will likely be no matches this year.

Penfailed

GazzaL wrote: »

I know someone with a compromised immune system and they're working part-time out of goodwill for their employer. I know people in their late 60s and 70s who are aging by the day because they're not allowed to work, some of them are lucky that they are still able to work. Not everyone thinks it's a thrill to be told here's €350, now sit down, shut up and watch Netflix.

Everyone...literally everyone, ages by the day. That's how ageing works.
More fool yer one working out of goodwill for their employer. That goodwill will dry up if they catch the plague.
For the record...and I've said this before but I think people are (possibly purposely) under the impression that I'm in the 'lockdown brigade'. I'm not. I'd love for all this to be over tomorrow. Realistically, that's not happening though.

drunkmonkey

gozunda wrote: »

Yeah it's all a giant conspiracy so it is

:rolleyes:

Without the data on the normally expected deaths you can't say what's really happening, has the death rate yesterday increased by 30% due to Covid or is the death rate within averages for this time of year, it's a fair question that deserves an answer.
I want to know home many people died yesterday and from what. As if nobody died of the usuals suspects there is an issue. Are people dying from or with Covid?

is_that_so

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It contradicts what was said last night on newsnight, there is nothing decided we have 7 days, it'll be down to the wire.

In a vacuum like this anything can be claimed to be true. It does seem like a "source" providing the information. It's also worth noting that a further two weeks would put us almost on par with Italy and Spain in terms of extreme restrictions. That would be an awful lot of time for an outbreak that never broke the health system.

Penfailed

Discodog wrote: »

DIY/Hardware stores have always been legally allowed to open but the big ones like B&Q chose not to.

Quite possibly because they can't guarantee the health and safety of their employees and customers. I'd say there's a lot of work going on in the background to produce risk assessments and procedures to enable them to reopen as soon as possible.

[Deleted User]

is_that_so wrote: »

In a vacuum like this anything can be claimed to be true. It does seem like a "source" providing the information. It's also worth noting that a further two weeks would put us almost on par with Italy and Spain in terms of extreme restrictions. That would be an awful lot of time for an outbreak that never broke the health system.

Newstalk News at 8am saying lockdown is likely to continue............for another 2 weeks

kippy

is_that_so wrote: »

In a vacuum like this anything can be claimed to be true. It does seem like a "source" providing the information. It's also worth noting that a further two weeks would put us almost on par with Italy and Spain in terms of extreme restrictions. That would be an awful lot of time for an outbreak that never broke the health system.

The irony of the last line.

stephenjmcd

For anyone interested this is part of today's independent article. It'll be interesting to see the plan they come out with but if the first phase is minimal changes then what's the point? 2 more weeks then minimal changes, so basically until the end of May or is the first phase from 5th May. I'm sorry but what a load of crap, I've said it before I've been following the restrictions to the letter since the start, but after next week I'm done. We've kept up our side, and they've not, testing and contact tracing still aren't up to where they need to be.

The biggest joke in that is phase 2 fast food outlets could reopen for takeaway, most of them never closed.

I've been supportive of the government in the past but this is an arse covering exercise now.

"The national lockdown will be extended for another two weeks for the vast majority of people when the current quarantine period ends after the bank holiday weekend.

The Government will announce the extension on Friday while also outlining a roadmap for lifting social-distancing restrictions over the coming months.

The only easing of working restrictions from May 5 being considered is for those who work outdoors, such as construction workers and gardeners.

Over-70s who have been asked to cocoon will be told they can exercise once a day as long as they take social-distancing precautions.

The National Public Health Emergency Team (Nphet) is still considering whether the non-essential travel ban can be extended beyond 2km.

The Nphet is meeting tomorrow morning and on Friday to discuss the step-by-step plan for easing social distancing rules over the coming months.

On Friday, Taoiseach Leo Varadkar and Health Minister Simon Harris will announce details of the plan to lift restrictions in phases.

It is understood they will say that to move between the phases key targets on limiting the spread of the virus will have to be achieved first.

The first phase will see minimal changes to lockdown rules but, if targets are met, the second stage will see more people get back to work and travel restrictions will be eased.

In the second phase, it is expected employees who can safely maintain a two-metre distance from colleagues will be allowed to return to work.

This could involve fast-food chains reopening - but only for takeaway service.

In early June, the third phase could see people who have low levels of interaction with colleagues return to work.

People who can work remotely may be asked to continue to do so until September.

There is significant concern in the Government and the Nphet that once the restrictions are lifted there will be a second wave of Covid-19 cases.

The capacity of intensive care units to handle a surge in patients presenting with the virus is also a key concern.

However, this is not an issue at present."

prunudo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Newstalk News at 8am saying lockdown is likely to continue............for another 2 weeks

But also one of the presenter's calling out a texter who said we should be in lockdown till a vaccine is found. Seems some in the media are starting to question the justification for a continuation of current restrictions.

[Deleted User]

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I don't believe the Times or Indo after listening to Cillian De Gascun on newsnight last night, I expect them to start advising people to stop using gloves and possibly masks as they both can increase your chances of infection, distancing and hand washing as advised from the start will have to be reinforced.
He did say we should be rewarded, contact tracing and testing need to be improved, testing is 2/3 weeks out.
It's worth catching up on if you didn't see it.

And at the very same time on the Claire Show last night , Professor Luke O Neil said everyone now SHOULD be wearing masks in shops and at work!! Go figure, there is no consensus on anything !!:mad:

drunkmonkey

is_that_so wrote: »

In a vacuum like this anything can be claimed to be true. It does seem like a "source" providing the information. It's also worth noting that a further two weeks would put us almost on par with Italy and Spain in terms of extreme restrictions. That would be an awful lot of time for an outbreak that never broke the health system.

I would take the opinion of Cillian De Gascun last night over any journalist. He is a credidable source and a decision maker. We have 7 days he said, he wants to see a quicker drop in the rate of ICU admissions, the numbers are dropping but not at a quick enough rate, he said it'll take him 2.5 weeks to be up to the 100,000 tests a day capacity.
The issue seems to be contact tracing at the moment it's not going as smoothly as hoped, also when they changed the testing criteria after the huge initial surge a lot of people had to be called back to say they wouldn't be tested, some of those people definitely had it and carried on in the community which hasn't helped but there was little choice as we hadn't the capacity to test them all. I get a sense from him that we have played our part and he said we deserved to be rewarded for our efforts and he's concious people want to see this reward.

kippy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And at the very same time on the Claire Show last night , Professor Luke O Neil said everyone now SHOULD be wearing masks in shops and at work!! Go figure, there is no consensus on anything !!:mad:

There's rarely 100 percent consensus in these things..just have a look through a few posts here.

CruelSummer

I have complied and supported all measures up until the previously announced lockdown. I felt they extended it without due cause as new data was emerging. This data continues to emerge showing a much lower death rate than previously thought.

The video posted on this thread from two doctors based in the USA makes a very interesting point - people’s immune systems in general do not benefit from a lockdown and actually weaken. They are not coming into contact with small doses of various things on a daily basis to keep it strong and working. How have our own doctors not realised this?

If the 2km limit is just extended to a measly 5km I’m going to crack up and disregard if possible. I’ve had enough and so have my family. Has anyone thought of how this could be affecting children? These restrictions could have long term psychological damage to our younger population.

Most older people I know cannot stand the restrictions and think life isn’t worth living alone and inside. They are already out walking and getting fresh air as they should be. It should never have been taken away from them. They should continue to be protected until this passes but not in an unreasonable way.

Went to a filling station yesterday & the general consensus among the silent majority is ‘time to get back to a normality of sorts’. We cannot eradicate the virus, we have to live with it. The amount of people waiting for other tests and procedures is shocking and will kill more people than the virus if this keeps up.

I’m very disappointed in the kite flying, lack of a plan from government, who also seem unduly influenced by comments on social media. If they don’t offer something better for May, they will lose the public’s support.

The economy is in ruins currently and all their negative talk actually makes it worse. They’re overspending now and I do not want to have to pick up the bill down the line.
I’ve followed the coronavirus thread since January’s and Wuhan's outbreak. The virus isn’t nearly as deadly as was feared and we should all be thankful for that & allowed far less restrictions.

munsterlegend

Is there any possibility now of the restriction on schools reopening being lifted? I actually thought the primary schools would reopen before the end of June. Now I am not so sure.

stephenjmcd

prunudo wrote: »

But also one of the presenter's calling out a texter who said we should be in lockdown till a vaccine is found. Seems some in the media are starting to question the justification for a continuation of current restrictions.

Good, about time someone used common sense in calling that out. It can't go on simple as. People will have to learn to live with this

Downlinz

Relaxing the restrictions can't happen and won't happen next week as ICU numbers are stagnating with a similar number of people entering each day who leave. It's both surprising and alarming that the spread is so great within lockdown and it's hard to imagine we'd have much chance of hospitals not becoming overwhelmed from any sort of attempt at opening.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1255014774422884352

I'd love to hear the stories of how all these people are contradicting the virus in the middle of a lockdown and what they happen to be doing because it's certainly not just happening in nursing homes.

kippy

prunudo wrote: »

But also one of the presenter's calling out a texter who said we should be in lockdown till a vaccine is found. Seems some in the media are starting to question the justification for a continuation of current restrictions.

The country will be under some level of lockdown/rolling lock down, with various levels of restrictions until a vaccine is widely administered or herd immunity has been verified and achieved.
Prime reason is to keep cases to manageable levels.

The severity of restrictions will depend on various things including testing and contact tracing capability and risk.

I think that much is obvious. I'm not saying things will remain as they are now btw but that shouldn't have to be made any more obvious.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

Newstalk News at 8am saying lockdown is likely to continue............for another 2 weeks

Off what the CMO and De Gascun saying there are seven more days, and by not denying it one could assume that but who knows. Given that questions about it will be stonewalled by anyone that matters it'll be a good story to run as "true" for the week. I would say that if is coming that needs to come out before Friday and we need to see a clear plan. Not doing so runs the risk of suggesting that we can manage a pandemic but not a way out of it.

drunkmonkey

Deleted User wrote: »

And at the very same time on the Claire Show last night , Professor Luke O Neil said everyone now SHOULD be wearing masks in shops and at work!! Go figure, there is no consensus on anything !!:mad:

The complete opposite opinion of the GP and Cillian De Gascun, and gloves are completely out people should not be wearing them. The risk out weights the benefits of masks, the people using those should he avoided like the plague and I think banned from shops, they have no idea what there doing and the danger they pose to people.

ceadaoin.

Penfailed wrote: »

Well below zero? That's not even possible.

Sorry, I meant 1. Just noticed that now. Apologies.

My point still stands though. This virus isn't going to be eradicated by social distancing alone. The current measures have worked as intended. What good would further restrictions do?

is_that_so

munsterlegend wrote: »

Is there any possibility now of the restriction on schools reopening being lifted? I actually thought the primary schools would reopen before the end of June. Now I am not so sure.

LC students returning has been well flagged, the rest of it not so much.

kippy

munsterlegend wrote: »

Is there any possibility now of the restriction on schools reopening being lifted? I actually thought the primary schools would reopen before the end of June. Now I am not so sure.

Schools be going back to a pre march scenario any time this year I fear.

Penfailed

prunudo wrote: »

But also one of the presenter's calling out a texter who said we should be in lockdown till a vaccine is found. Seems some in the media are starting to question the justification for a continuation of current restrictions.

Well...no. They questioned the justification for a lockdown until a vaccine is found. That's not feasible. They didn't question the justification for a continuation of current restrictions.

ixoy

What the government will need to do, in some form, is explain why if a number of countries are now easing restrictions, that Ireland can't, despite the fact that the rate of transmission is below the target of 1. We'd be owed that in a clear answer.

munsterlegend

kippy wrote: »

Schools be going back to a pre march scenario any time this year I fear.

You don’t think they will be going back?

munsterlegend

is_that_so wrote: »

LC students returning has been well flagged, the rest of it not so much.

Yeah a few kites have been thrown out to the media previously about going back one day a week.

kippy

munsterlegend wrote: »

You don’t think they will be going back?

Not to a pre-march level. Maybe certain classes, maybe certain ages. Maybe staggered, shorter school day but not to pre march environment.

Henry Ford III

ixoy wrote: »

What the government will need to do, in some form, is explain why if a number of countries are now easing restrictions, that Ireland can't, despite the fact that the rate of transmission is below the target of 1. We'd be owed that in a clear answer.

Maybe the other countries decisions are wrong?

If we relax too early and the virus bites again it will be disastrous.

Downlinz

ixoy wrote: »

What the government will need to do, in some form, is explain why if a number of countries are now easing restrictions, that Ireland can't, despite the fact that the rate of transmission is below the target of 1. We'd be owed that in a clear answer.

It doesn't require explaining since there's no evidence any of those countries have actually been successful with easing restrictions, it's too early to tell. Since Ireland has one of the lowest ICU capacities in Europe per population it stands to reason that we wouldn't be at the forefront of taking those risky, unproven measures either.

is_that_so

ixoy wrote: »

What the government will need to do, in some form, is explain why if a number of countries are now easing restrictions, that Ireland can't, despite the fact that the rate of transmission is below the target of 1. We'd be owed that in a clear answer.

Yeah, we do need to see a shift in PR away from the "great job, hang in there" to "what next".