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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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Princess Consuela Bananahammock

kippy wrote: »

The evidence won't be fully available till after the events have taken place. Would you rather wait and do nothing until evidence is available.

This is kind of my point: although these is plenty of information around, hard evidence will take time. And baed on said local information, governments are implementing differtent plans.

But you are basing your stance on lack of evidence as much as anyone else. And you are asking the Irish govenrments to do the same.

Would I rather "do nothing"? This depends. How long for? Under what conditions? I said some time ago that the level of lockdow nthat is feasible will rely on collective patiene as much as anything andgovernments know this. And they are not going to enforce completely no-go lockdowns are call out the national guard unless national security - not personal security - is threatened.

Bobtheman

If this virus had been allowed rip through the population as say the Swedes have allowed-what deaths would we be looking at? The media just throw out deaths every day-neglecting to say in normal times 90 people die a dat=y and 30k a year in the Emerald Isle.

I don't want a big bang on the 5th but they should let building sites and some large spaced businesses open. We cant run an economy on borrowing f forever.

kippy

Nermal wrote: »

Just felt like quoting this.

The poster asked what further possible restrictions that we could have on top of what was already here.
There was one possible further restriction that could be put in place.
That's the context.

timmy_mallet

Benimar wrote: »

And IF it does spike and restrictions are extended as a consequence, how would you fell about them then?

Fine. Thanks.

kippy

easypazz wrote: »

I can't believe you are even suggesting such a thing.

You are expecting the people who are taking the biggest risks and working the hardest to be locked into hotel rooms while off duty and never to see their families until its all over, which could be months.

Do you think these people would be able to cope with working long shifts, watching people die every day, and then you want them to be escorted to a hotel and locked away until the next working day.

Your suggestion is both disgraceful and disgusting.

Christ.
You asked for an example of a more restrictive restriction than already in place. There it is.

See things could be much more restrictive/worse.

Penfailed

easypazz wrote: »

I can't believe you are even suggesting such a thing.

You are expecting the people who are taking the biggest risks and working the hardest to be locked into hotel rooms while off duty and never to see their families until its all over, which could be months.

Do you think these people would be able to cope with working long shifts, watching people die every day, and then you want them to be escorted to a hotel and locked away until the next working day.

Your suggestion is both disgraceful and disgusting.

He's not suggesting that it should happen. You know this already and are simply trying to score points. You asked about further restrictions. That ^^^ would be a further restriction.

kippy

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

This is kind of my point: although these is plenty of information around, hard evidence will take time. And baed on said local information, governments are implementing differtent plans.

But you are basing your stance on lack of evidence as much as anyone else. And you are asking the Irish govenrments to do the same.

Would I rather "do nothing"? This depends. How long for? Under what conditions? I said some time ago that the level of lockdow nthat is feasible will rely on collective patiene as much as anything andgovernments know this. And they are not going to enforce completely no-go lockdowns are call out the national guard unless national security - not personal security - is threatened.

The logic is simple and as you say in fairness there are different variables at play in each country. But essentially you need to ensure the amount of people requiring hospitalisation at any one time to not exceed X where X is the amount of hospital beds, staff, equipment you have available (taking into account other bed requirements)
The virus spreads via human contact. Reduce human contact so that numbers requiring beds is a number less than X.
X is gonna be a variable as is existing human contact.
Doing nothing isn't an option..action of some description has/had to be taken. Some countries were late to act and missed major things like blocking international travel early on,including ourselves.
Time will tell I suppose but the available evidence and facts are around X and how to reduce the spread.

Spanish Eyes

I'm a Dub, but I am now thinking that Dublin County should be corralled, for everyone's sake. lol.

No need for the whole country to suffer the restrictions when the vast majority of cases are happening in the Capital.

Views and thoughts on a postcard please.

easypazz

kippy wrote: »

Christ.
You asked for an example of a more restrictive restriction than already in place. There it is.

See things could be much more restrictive/worse.

There it isn't.

You are proposing indefinitely locking away healthcare workers which is absurd.

Might as well suggest blow up all the bridges to restrict movement.

kippy

easypazz wrote: »

There it isn't.

You are proposing indefinitely locking away healthcare workers which is absurd.

Might as well suggest blow up all the bridges to restrict movement.

You asked for a more restrictive measure than those currently in place. There's an example of one of many.
Just to put some context on the level of restriction we currently live under and maybe provide a level of appreciation for what we have available to us.

I didn't propose it be implemented, but again keep moving the goal posts

Christ. On about your rights being all gone. As as said to another poster who was stating hard facts, you wouldn't know what rights were is they were coming out of your behind.

DeanAustin

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Of course it could be more restrictive because we have allowed our constitutional rights of liberty to be removed in the name of the well being of the nations health.
Now I still can't understand why those rights of liberty have not being reinstated with urgency following the recent numbers and ICU capacity. Our rights have been removed by an unelected Dr who continues to patronise the nation without accepting responsibility for the care home fiasco.

I see this a lot as if the restrictions have been implemented with an ulterior motive or hidden agenda.

Tony H may be unelected but our legitimate government have taken his advice because of the nature of the crisis. That's perfectly reasonable.

If you want to see politicians taking advantage of this crisis, take a look at Hungary, Azerbaijan, Togo or the Middle East. I don't believe anyone in our country is making decisions based on anything other than what's best for public health.

Spanish Eyes

What do you all think about isolating Dublin and a new Pale?

Makes a lot of sense to me now, however entry would be given to those working in essential services like HSE etc. to get across the Dublin Border.

The biggest cluster is in Dublin.

Stheno

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I'm a Dub, but I am now thinking that Dublin County should be corralled, for everyone's sake. lol.

No need for the whole country to suffer the restrictions when the vast majority of cases are happening in the Capital.

Views and thoughts on a postcard please.

Eh Cavan?

VonLuck

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I'm a Dub, but I am now thinking that Dublin County should be corralled, for everyone's sake. lol.

No need for the whole country to suffer the restrictions when the vast majority of cases are happening in the Capital.

Views and thoughts on a postcard please.

Well if you're going with that logic, should we not just isolate all nursing homes considering the vast majority of cases are happening there?

easypazz

kippy wrote: »

You asked for a more restrictive measure than those currently in place. There's an example of one of many.
Just to put some context on the level of restriction we currently live under and maybe provide a level of appreciation for what we have available to us.

I didn't propose it be implemented, but again keep moving the goal posts

Christ. On about your rights being all gone. As as said to another poster who was stating hard facts, you wouldn't know what rights were is they were coming out of your behind.

Because you know its stupid.

Like your other big idea, restrict access to fuel.

Spanish Eyes

VonLuck wrote: »

Well if you're going with that logic, should we not just isolate all nursing homes considering the vast majority of cases are happening there?

I think they are already isolated.

Gael23

Heard that the 2km rule will be extended to 5km but not sure that’s accurate

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

kippy wrote: »

The logic is simple and as you say in fairness there are different variables at play in each country. But essentially you need to ensure the amount of people requiring hospitalisation at any one time to not exceed X where X is the amount of hospital beds, staff, equipment you have available (taking into account other bed requirements)
The virus spreads via human contact. Reduce human contact so that numbers requiring beds is a number less than X.
X is gonna be a variable as is existing human contact.

This is pretty much what I've been sayign all along. The lockdown is for buying time and virus is spread by human contact not people going outside.

Doing nothing isn't an option..action of some description has/had to be taken. Some countries were late to act and missed major things like blocking international travel early on,including ourselves.
Time will tell I suppose but the available evidence and facts are around X and how to reduce the spread.

But we are doing something. We have got a lockdown/restrictions (call it what you like) in place. And it's specific contents are based on the figures available to the government and the estimated tolerance of the general public. As you said yourself, only time will tell whether or not it was the right call. And even then people will differ in their opinions.

Doing "something" for the sake of doing "something" is just plain stupid. Lifting all restrictions would be "something".

trapp

BanditLuke wrote: »

People using suicide stats as a means to justify opening everything up again are as low as it gets.

You couldn't give a hoot about suicide you blaggers all you care about is your wine ó clock and the gym.

Lukey my poor friend you're still here and as negative as ever I see?

Still waiting for your explanation as to how this virus affects children and young people just as much as our older population as you stated despite all the evidence to the contrary?

I do agree with some of your thoughts and comments but I feel you don't a good grasp of human spirit and mentality like myself and other posters.

We are warm people who value interaction with others and base our lives around it.

And ultimately the human need for friendship and companionship will overcome the fear of death.

It always has done my poor man and it always will.

In any case Leo doesn't have the credibility to impose any kind of further restriction on the population my poor friend.

He just doesn't have the authority needed as proven by the election and neither do the gardai.

This lockdown my poor friend has been consented to by the people.

We now need to start moving towards living alongside the virus.

Life will be hard and people will die, but the human need for purpose, to be able to work and socialise and live together will overcome it and beat it.

People die all the time my poor friend, no point waiting for it to come.

As restrictions are lifted I urge you my poor man to lose the tinfoil and live a little.

I must say I commend the work you are doing helping the vulnerable with food deliveries.

These kind of services will be essential as restrictions begin to ease.

But don't be so negative and fearful my poor man, we'll all die sometime anyway.

trapp

Gael23 wrote: »

Heard that the 2km rule will be extended to 5km but not sure that’s accurate

You read it in the paper you mean

scamalert

i dont get it are people getting desperate, numbers are down, we got week to go, its clear where main clusters are. yet some still come up with fearmongering BS, even thou the leaders at the top seem like headless chicken as to how they will go forward, its clear summer is here, yes we will have to maintain distancing rules and other safety measures but theres f all entire country can do about it, saying we need to isolate for few more weeks or months changes 0, as given the way virus spreads it could be years before theres no trace from it, saying we have to wait isnt realistic option in any sense.

Spencer Brown

Gael23 wrote: »

Heard that the 2km rule will be extended to 5km but not sure that’s accurate

Will make no difference to anyone if true. I wouldn’t even bother doing it if it’s at the expense of other restrictions being eased.

Bobtheman

If this virus had been allow free reign then what would have happened?

yrreg0850

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

What do you all think about isolating Dublin and a new Pale?

Makes a lot of sense to me now, however entry would be given to those working in essential services like HSE etc. to get across the Dublin Border.

The biggest cluster is in Dublin.

Rather than isolate Dublin , why not implement the law as regards people travelling from NI.
As things stand they can travel any where in the republic.

kippy

easypazz wrote: »

Because you know its stupid.

Like your other big idea, restrict access to fuel.

There are lots of restrictions implemented elsewhere but not here that are far more restrictive than we have currently.

You will never accept this based on what I've seen here.

There are lot of restrictions that certain people deem to be stupid that have been implemented here.

It is likely that the country will be split into groups both geographic and potentially age/profession and asked to adhere to different sets of restrictions as time goes on.

trapp

Bobtheman wrote: »

If this virus had been allow free reign then what would have happened?

Dear oh dear my poor friend that would never have happened so we'll never know.

Easing restrictions doesn't mean no restrictions at all and free reign

Wake up my man

kippy

Bobtheman wrote: »

If this virus had been allow free reign then what would have happened?

Anarchy.

titan18

trapp wrote:

Dear oh dear my poor friend that would never have happened so we'll never know.

Stop calling people your poor friends. It's condescending

ChikiChiki

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I'm a Dub, but I am now thinking that Dublin County should be corralled, for everyone's sake. lol.

No need for the whole country to suffer the restrictions when the vast majority of cases are happening in the Capital.

Views and thoughts on a postcard please.

Also a Dub. I agree.

nthclare

I've never been so relaxed in my adult life, I suppose it's easy for me to say, as I live down a country boreen, have to drive 8 k once a week to the local supermarket and can take in the fresh air, zoom gatherings with my family and friends etc.
A river running close by and open spaces.

I was working since I was 16 through secondary school, college and in the same job since I graduated in 1995.

Living alone but fck me, I really feel sorry for people who have no where to run or hide away and get some personal space.
Especially if you're introverted by nature.

My dream since I was a kid was to have my own house in the Burren, living in solitude and have a few friends and be in contact with my family.

I could never follow the herd, no matter how much I tried I just didn't fit in.

Being in a crowd I felt lonely and when I'm on my own I feel good, people's mental health is very important.

And I don't think the government is taking people's mental health into consideration here.

I'd say there's a lot of people living with the four horsemen of the apocalypse all around them, especially men and women in abusive marriage's..

Imagine some poor timid woman living with a brute, and he being a lazy, moody, useless bastard.
Not even able to hang a picture or put out a wash.

Can you picture it, he hanging the washing out all crumpled looking, and creased instead of putting it out neatly.
Or not able to dig a hole in the garden or wire a plug...

But he's a great coder