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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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VonLuck

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I'm a Dub, but I am now thinking that Dublin County should be corralled, for everyone's sake. lol.

No need for the whole country to suffer the restrictions when the vast majority of cases are happening in the Capital.

Views and thoughts on a postcard please.

Well if you're going with that logic, should we not just isolate all nursing homes considering the vast majority of cases are happening there?

Stheno

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I'm a Dub, but I am now thinking that Dublin County should be corralled, for everyone's sake. lol.

No need for the whole country to suffer the restrictions when the vast majority of cases are happening in the Capital.

Views and thoughts on a postcard please.

Eh Cavan?

Spanish Eyes

What do you all think about isolating Dublin and a new Pale?

Makes a lot of sense to me now, however entry would be given to those working in essential services like HSE etc. to get across the Dublin Border.

The biggest cluster is in Dublin.

DeanAustin

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Of course it could be more restrictive because we have allowed our constitutional rights of liberty to be removed in the name of the well being of the nations health.
Now I still can't understand why those rights of liberty have not being reinstated with urgency following the recent numbers and ICU capacity. Our rights have been removed by an unelected Dr who continues to patronise the nation without accepting responsibility for the care home fiasco.

I see this a lot as if the restrictions have been implemented with an ulterior motive or hidden agenda.

Tony H may be unelected but our legitimate government have taken his advice because of the nature of the crisis. That's perfectly reasonable.

If you want to see politicians taking advantage of this crisis, take a look at Hungary, Azerbaijan, Togo or the Middle East. I don't believe anyone in our country is making decisions based on anything other than what's best for public health.

kippy

easypazz wrote: »

There it isn't.

You are proposing indefinitely locking away healthcare workers which is absurd.

Might as well suggest blow up all the bridges to restrict movement.

You asked for a more restrictive measure than those currently in place. There's an example of one of many.
Just to put some context on the level of restriction we currently live under and maybe provide a level of appreciation for what we have available to us.

I didn't propose it be implemented, but again keep moving the goal posts

Christ. On about your rights being all gone. As as said to another poster who was stating hard facts, you wouldn't know what rights were is they were coming out of your behind.

easypazz

kippy wrote: »

Christ.
You asked for an example of a more restrictive restriction than already in place. There it is.

See things could be much more restrictive/worse.

There it isn't.

You are proposing indefinitely locking away healthcare workers which is absurd.

Might as well suggest blow up all the bridges to restrict movement.

Spanish Eyes

I'm a Dub, but I am now thinking that Dublin County should be corralled, for everyone's sake. lol.

No need for the whole country to suffer the restrictions when the vast majority of cases are happening in the Capital.

Views and thoughts on a postcard please.

kippy

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

This is kind of my point: although these is plenty of information around, hard evidence will take time. And baed on said local information, governments are implementing differtent plans.

But you are basing your stance on lack of evidence as much as anyone else. And you are asking the Irish govenrments to do the same.

Would I rather "do nothing"? This depends. How long for? Under what conditions? I said some time ago that the level of lockdow nthat is feasible will rely on collective patiene as much as anything andgovernments know this. And they are not going to enforce completely no-go lockdowns are call out the national guard unless national security - not personal security - is threatened.

The logic is simple and as you say in fairness there are different variables at play in each country. But essentially you need to ensure the amount of people requiring hospitalisation at any one time to not exceed X where X is the amount of hospital beds, staff, equipment you have available (taking into account other bed requirements)
The virus spreads via human contact. Reduce human contact so that numbers requiring beds is a number less than X.
X is gonna be a variable as is existing human contact.
Doing nothing isn't an option..action of some description has/had to be taken. Some countries were late to act and missed major things like blocking international travel early on,including ourselves.
Time will tell I suppose but the available evidence and facts are around X and how to reduce the spread.

Penfailed

easypazz wrote: »

I can't believe you are even suggesting such a thing.

You are expecting the people who are taking the biggest risks and working the hardest to be locked into hotel rooms while off duty and never to see their families until its all over, which could be months.

Do you think these people would be able to cope with working long shifts, watching people die every day, and then you want them to be escorted to a hotel and locked away until the next working day.

Your suggestion is both disgraceful and disgusting.

He's not suggesting that it should happen. You know this already and are simply trying to score points. You asked about further restrictions. That ^^^ would be a further restriction.

kippy

easypazz wrote: »

I can't believe you are even suggesting such a thing.

You are expecting the people who are taking the biggest risks and working the hardest to be locked into hotel rooms while off duty and never to see their families until its all over, which could be months.

Do you think these people would be able to cope with working long shifts, watching people die every day, and then you want them to be escorted to a hotel and locked away until the next working day.

Your suggestion is both disgraceful and disgusting.

Christ.
You asked for an example of a more restrictive restriction than already in place. There it is.

See things could be much more restrictive/worse.

timmy_mallet

Benimar wrote: »

And IF it does spike and restrictions are extended as a consequence, how would you fell about them then?

Fine. Thanks.

kippy

Nermal wrote: »

Just felt like quoting this.

The poster asked what further possible restrictions that we could have on top of what was already here.
There was one possible further restriction that could be put in place.
That's the context.

Bobtheman

If this virus had been allowed rip through the population as say the Swedes have allowed-what deaths would we be looking at? The media just throw out deaths every day-neglecting to say in normal times 90 people die a dat=y and 30k a year in the Emerald Isle.

I don't want a big bang on the 5th but they should let building sites and some large spaced businesses open. We cant run an economy on borrowing f forever.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

kippy wrote: »

The evidence won't be fully available till after the events have taken place. Would you rather wait and do nothing until evidence is available.

This is kind of my point: although these is plenty of information around, hard evidence will take time. And baed on said local information, governments are implementing differtent plans.

But you are basing your stance on lack of evidence as much as anyone else. And you are asking the Irish govenrments to do the same.

Would I rather "do nothing"? This depends. How long for? Under what conditions? I said some time ago that the level of lockdow nthat is feasible will rely on collective patiene as much as anything andgovernments know this. And they are not going to enforce completely no-go lockdowns are call out the national guard unless national security - not personal security - is threatened.

easypazz

kippy wrote: »

You think enforced quarentine of medical staff and hospital workers from their families would make minimal difference and isn't more restrictive than what we have?

I can't believe you are even suggesting such a thing.

You are expecting the people who are taking the biggest risks and working the hardest to be locked into hotel rooms while off duty and never to see their families until its all over, which could be months.

Do you think these people would be able to cope with working long shifts, watching people die every day, and then you want them to be escorted to a hotel and locked away until the next working day.

Your suggestion is both disgraceful and disgusting.

Nermal

kippy wrote: »

Petrol and diesel restrictions for all but essential vehicles.

Just felt like quoting this.

kippy

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

No its your view. You said the restrictions could be worse to give context. Another context is that Covid could be worse and kill fit and healthy people. The more we are learning about Covid its not the danger we were lead to belive

The discussion was around restrictions in Ireland. I said they could be worse....giving examples of other countries. That's context on restrictions.

What is making you think it's not the danger we were led to believe? Who led you to believe what you once believed?
We are lucky the mortality rate isn't higher.
There's no doubt it is an extremely infectious disease with 14 percent of known cases in Ireland needing hospitalisation, a percentage of them needing ICU and a percentage of cases dying.
It has caused havoc in a number of well developed healthcare systems and will cause more havoc in developing nations.
Where you expecting worse than that?

FintanMcluskey

kippy wrote: »

Not 'my view of context' - actual context.

No its your view. You said the restrictions could be worse to give context. Another context is that Covid could be worse and kill fit and healthy people. The more we are learning about Covid its not the danger we were lead to belive

kippy

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Where construction has reopened? I fail to see why compare ourselves to nations with vastly greater populations who have only restricted the urban centres

If you don't get the numbers at this point there's not much point explaining it further.
We only have so many hospital beds, ICU beds, staff and equipment. These have been increasing but if you look where things are at we don't have that much spare capacity, that's the issue. So one has to limit the spread to manageable numbers. How do you do that?
Pretty much by doing what we are doing.
Granted certain activities and restrictions on them may be loosened.

FintanMcluskey

BanditLuke wrote: »

he is taking this far to seriously and needs to step away for a day or two imo.

I look forward to all your posts where irony is not spared

kippy

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Putting your view of context on the restrictions. Some people actually think the restrictions are now having an effect on Covid. Seen a video on twitter of a line of people doing rock the boat on some road in Dublin. One of the most popular comments under the video was along the lines of "When all those are in ICU next week they won't be so happy". People using the rhetoric that this is a death sentence are the same people who believe the restrictions are beneficial because we have not seen 120k deaths in Ireland

Not 'my view of context' - actual context.

BanditLuke

kippy wrote: »

How?
In many many ways. If you can't even think of one way it could be more restrictive I'd suggest you are only here to wind people up.

I hope that's true because I'd be concerned for him come the 5th otherwise. We are all just giving our opinions here but he is taking this far to seriously and needs to step away for a day or two imo.

FintanMcluskey

Mr.S wrote: »

In all seriousness though, if you think we are in a lockdown state, talk to people in France or Spain.

Where construction has reopened? I fail to see why compare ourselves to nations with vastly greater populations who have only restricted the urban centres

FintanMcluskey

kippy wrote: »

Jesus Christ. No one is pleading for a police state.
One idiot poster said their rights were all gone and this was as restrictive as it could get......pretty much all of my posts since we're trying to put some context on the current levels of restriction.

Putting your view of context on the restrictions. Some people actually think the restrictions are now having an effect on Covid. Seen a video on twitter of a line of people doing rock the boat on some road in Dublin. One of the most popular comments under the video was along the lines of "When all those are in ICU next week they won't be so happy". People using the rhetoric that this is a death sentence are the same people who believe the restrictions are beneficial because we have not seen 120k deaths in Ireland

kippy

LiquidZeb wrote: »

I honestly think some people are fulfilling some brownshirt fantasy here. Who would honestly want to live under a regime like that?

Nobody. But let's not deflect from the actual conversation.

drunkmonkey

kippy wrote: »

You think enforced quarentine of medical staff and hospital workers from their families would make minimal difference and isn't more restrictive than what we have?

It should happen and they should be immediately stopped from working in different hospitals on different days of the week. They seem to have learned nothing with the nursing homes. Health workers are the biggest threat to the general public right now.

kippy

Spencer Brown wrote: »

Do you think putting an hour limit on exercise is going to make a difference to anyone? It’s so absurd and impossible to in force that I can’t believe it was suggested. Kids not allowed outside at all ffs. What sort of person even comes up with an idea like that.

I didn't mention anything about exercise quotas.
That said the restrictions you speak of have been in place else where. So there's merit in then.

Spencer Brown

kippy wrote: »

You think enforced quarentine of medical staff and hospital workers from their families would make minimal difference and isn't more restrictive than what we have?

Wasn’t mentioned at all in the post I replied to.

Spencer Brown

kippy wrote: »

Jesus Christ. No one is pleading for a police state.
One idiot poster said their rights were all gone and this was as restrictive as it could get......pretty much all of my posts since we're trying to put some context on the current levels of restriction.

Do you think putting an hour limit on exercise is going to make a difference to anyone? It’s so absurd and impossible to in force that I can’t believe it was suggested. Kids not allowed outside at all ffs. What sort of person even comes up with an idea like that.

kippy

Spencer Brown wrote: »

That poster is scraping the bottom of the barrel for things that will make minimal to no difference to the spread of this. Some might even make things worse by forcing people to shop during a shorter window each day.

You think enforced quarentine of medical staff and hospital workers from their families would make minimal difference and isn't more restrictive than what we have?