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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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Tokyo

Mod:

Different strokes for different folks. I have been following the past few pages of posts and I appreciate that people have different opinions, but before you post, please consider that not everybody is dealing with the current situation in the same way. Kind words can make the same points.

easypazz

titan18 wrote: »

Those wanting clothing shops to reopen will be the cause of deaths elsewhere it seems.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1134864/

Probably the same in every ppe factory in China, the whole world piling in the orders and nobody gives a fcuk about the people working there.

Nobody cares about those less when off when it comes down to it.

Penfailed

yrreg0850 wrote: »

On the basis of yesterdays news , The 2Km .travel ban does not apply to people from NI.

In that case a person from NI can travel to their holiday home in West Cork while a resident of Ennistymon cannot travel as far as Lahinch !

On the other side anybody living within 2Km of the border can travel to a holiday home in NI and, going on the earlier statement from the Garda commissioner if you travel to your holiday home , it is now your home.
Therefore these people can now travel anywhere on the Island.

As our government allows people from NI to apply for Irish passports they are not treating all citizens equally.

I do agree with the lock down.

People in NI never had a 2km restriction (they use miles rather than km anyway). They are, however, restricted to essential travel only. If they want to travel south and are stopped by the PSNI, they can be turned back. Similarly, if they make it across the border, they can be stopped by the guards and advised to turn back. The guards have no power of enforcement though...which is a bit of a joke.

cython

Penfailed wrote: »

Italy was in 'proper' lockdown. Even Leo doesn't call what we have a lockdown.

Except he did within the last number of days. Can't easily find a video but below is a quote from the one I'm thinking of.

"Anyone who's thinking of breaking those restrictions, even just for a few hours, or an afternoon or an evening, bear in mind the consequences could be having to extend the current lockdown by two or three weeks"

ShamoBuc

We are clearly not in a lockdown, just that restrictions have been put in place.
I'm off for a walk to clear my head, too much wine again last night.

FintanMcluskey

normanoffside wrote: »

And yet we have to take instruction from these fools.
They are using threats of extending lockdowns to cover up their own failures- going on about how many people have been out and about this weekend (which has nothing to do with the deaths they have caused).

It's smoke and mirrors stuff from the government and HSE.

Hopefully their dirty laundry will come out in the wash this week.

What was discussed on newstalk is criminal negligence. Someone has to be held responsible. The extension of restrictions is also bordering on reckless trading by Leo and Dr Tony, they wont accept responsibility Id say

normanoffside

Penfailed wrote: »

Italy was in 'proper' lockdown. Even Leo doesn't call what we have a lockdown.

And it worked brilliantly to be fair

FintanMcluskey

ShamoBuc wrote: »

We are clearly not in a lockdown, just that restrictions have been put in place.
I'm off for a walk to clear my head, too much wine again last night.

People that didn't place value in movement dont consider it a lockdown. It is a lockdown.

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

People that didn't place value in movement dont consider it a lockdown. It is a lockdown.

But it could be more restrictive. That's the point that you are ignoring.

Penfailed

normanoffside wrote: »

And it worked brilliantly to be fair

They were late to the party.

drunkmonkey

Penfailed wrote: »

But it could be more restrictive. That's the point that you are ignoring.

How more restrictive could it be, the government haven't the manpower to do anything more. They can't even manage the current restrictions.

kippy

normanoffside wrote: »

And it worked brilliantly to be fair

It would have if they implement it a few weeks earlier....

easypazz

Penfailed wrote: »

Italy was in 'proper' lockdown. Even Leo doesn't call what we have a lockdown.

Mr.S wrote: »

If you look at Italy, Spain, France, parts of Asia - we are not in a "lockdown".

You are allowed leave the house whenever you want for as long as you want. Not sure how you can class that as a "lockdown'.

Horses for courses.

In countries with big cities (Wuhan 11 Million) the degree of lockdown measures will vary to say West Cork.

All non essential businesses here are closed, over 500000 people have been forced out of work, and many of their jobs and businesses face ruin.

Saying this is not a lockdown to all the people who will really suffer is insulting and demeaning tbh.

the kelt

DeanAustin wrote: »

I think it’s the perceived unfairness of the lockdown. People are assuming that “if we do x then we should be able to go back to normal in y weeks” and that’s the deal they are buying into.

It’s not that simple. We aren’t negotiating with something that can be negotiated with. The government are trying to figure this out as we go along because there are so many unknowns about this virus.

I’m not owed anything for obeying the rules and neither is anyone else. If the advice on the 5th May is a tightening of restrictions, so be it. I don’t like it but I’d rather take the advice of people who know far more about this than all of us on here and who are making these decisions for the good of our society than risk the lives of people just because I think I’m owed something from the government.

How come other countries in far worse situations can put in place plans as to what will happen in the future, put those plans to the people and execute those plans based on if “x happens and we do x then we can have a situation of y”

It’s isn’t about negotiation or being owed anything, it’s about levelling with people. At no stage during this pandemic should we have an approach of figuring it out as we go along, that would be suicidal, heaven help us if people are ok with this pandemic is being dealt with on a basis of let’s figure it out as we go along.

Rather than as some believe we are only in a state of relative lockdown because a few lads were in a packed pub in temple bar the criteria and timing of the lockdown was planned with measure put in place to mitigate the issues. We put together multiple plans to cope with the worst case scenario rather than figuring it out as we went along such as extra capacity and use of private hospitals etc etc and thankfully the vast majority hasn’t been needed.

But other countries have been capable of plans and execution as to how we move on so no reason why we cannot either imho.

kippy

drunkmonkey wrote: »

How more restrictive could it be, the government haven't the manpower to do anything more. They can't even manage the current restrictions.

This is the crux of it. It can't be much more restrictive as there are too many fools out there who just can't do what they are told for a small portion of their life.

ChikiChiki

Was in Fairview Park yesterday around 2pm. 3 Garda cars cleared the place out. **** loads of people out in groups.

easypazz

Penfailed wrote: »

But it could be more restrictive. That's the point that you are ignoring.

How?

Ban exercise, would you be happy then?

FintanMcluskey

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Was in Fairview Park yesterday around 2pm. 3 Garda cars cleared the place out. **** loads of people out in groups.

They gardai involved should be awarded a Victoria cross for such a display of bravery. But odd how that funeral in Wexford went ahead without encroachment of personal freedom

kippy

easypazz wrote: »

How?

Ban exercise, would you be happy then?

How?
In many many ways. If you can't even think of one way it could be more restrictive I'd suggest you are only here to wind people up.

normanoffside

kippy wrote: »

It would have if they implement it a few weeks earlier....

There is zero proof that the very strict measures (such as not even letting people outside for exercise) have had any positive effects whatsoever.
In fact after 2 months of house arrest and lack of sun the health of the population (both Mental and Physical) is in a terrible place.

Having seen the success of softer lock downs in other Countries the Italians are realising that their lockdown was excessive.
I have a lot of Italian friends and they are starting to get very P*ssed of about it.

drunkmonkey

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Was in Fairview Park yesterday around 2pm. 3 Garda cars cleared the place out. **** loads of people out in groups.

How many officers to a Garda car? All in masks, gloves and eye protection?
You know different rules for different people...

iamwhoiam

Whitehall do this while elsewhere 200 travellers gather for a funeral

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/dublin-teenager-robyn-smyth-given-18151641

easypazz

kippy wrote: »

How?
In many many ways. If you can't even think of one way it could be more restrictive I'd suggest you are only here to wind people up.

Examples?

What else can be removed from the gov.ie list below to make it a real lockdown?

Stay at home in all circumstances, except in the following situations:
to travel to and from work where the work is considered an essential service. The full list of essential services is available here
working in an essential shop, bank or post office. The full list of essential shops, post offices and banks is available here
to buy food, medicines and other health products for yourself, your family or someone who is vulnerable or 'cocooning'
to attend medical appointments
for vital family reasons including caring for children, elderly or vulnerable people but excluding social family visits
to exercise within 2 kilometres of your house. You cannot exercise with people from outside your household

kippy

normanoffside wrote: »

There is zero proof that the very strict measures (such as not even letting people outside for exercise) have had any positive effects whatsoever.
In fact after 2 months of house arrest and lack of sun the health of the population (both Mental and Physical) is in a terrible place.

Having seen the success of softer lock downs in other Countries the Italians are realising that their lockdown was excessive.
I have a lot of Italian friends and they are starting to get very P*ssed of about it.

Softer lockdowns can work if started early enough and if compliance is high.
Again the variables at play are not the same in every country or situation.

The more prevalent the virus is the more rational that stopping people go outside for exercise becomes...
But again people who don't understand basic logic are never going to understand what I've just said. So it's pointless even pointing it out.

kippy

easypazz wrote: »

Examples?

What else can be removed from the gov.ie list below to make it a real lockdown?

Stay at home in all circumstances, except in the following situations:
to travel to and from work where the work is considered an essential service. The full list of essential services is available here
working in an essential shop, bank or post office. The full list of essential shops, post offices and banks is available here
to buy food, medicines and other health products for yourself, your family or someone who is vulnerable or 'cocooning'
to attend medical appointments
for vital family reasons including caring for children, elderly or vulnerable people but excluding social family visits
to exercise within 2 kilometres of your house. You cannot exercise with people from outside your household

No leaving ones house for exercise.

easypazz

kippy wrote: »

No leaving ones house for exercise.

So you agree that apart from being allowed exercise 2kM from home, our lockdown is as tough as possible.

kippy

easypazz wrote: »

So you agree that apart from being allowed exercise 2kM from home, our lockdown is as tough as possible.

No. There's lots of things that could be added to that list or amended.

normanoffside

kippy wrote: »

S
The more prevalent the virus is the more rational that stopping people go outside for exercise becomes...
But again people who don't understand basic logic are never going to understand what I've just said. So it's pointless even pointing it out.

There is no proof that going out for exercise can spread the virus.

Please show me if you have any.

Thanks

MadYaker

Condidering the gardai can't even enforce current restrictions what would be the point in the government announcing more restrictions? I think they have no choice but to allow more movement after May 5th. The longer this goes on more people will ignore the restrictions anyway and I don't think there's anything that can be done about it. I haven't been stopped once by Gardai since this started.

easypazz

kippy wrote: »

No.

So which further restrictions can be enforced?

I will make this simple for you, which other rights from the gov.ie list do you think could be removed?