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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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the kelt

DeanAustin wrote: »

I think it’s the perceived unfairness of the lockdown. People are assuming that “if we do x then we should be able to go back to normal in y weeks” and that’s the deal they are buying into.

It’s not that simple. We aren’t negotiating with something that can be negotiated with. The government are trying to figure this out as we go along because there are so many unknowns about this virus.

I’m not owed anything for obeying the rules and neither is anyone else. If the advice on the 5th May is a tightening of restrictions, so be it. I don’t like it but I’d rather take the advice of people who know far more about this than all of us on here and who are making these decisions for the good of our society than risk the lives of people just because I think I’m owed something from the government.

How come other countries in far worse situations can put in place plans as to what will happen in the future, put those plans to the people and execute those plans based on if “x happens and we do x then we can have a situation of y”

It’s isn’t about negotiation or being owed anything, it’s about levelling with people. At no stage during this pandemic should we have an approach of figuring it out as we go along, that would be suicidal, heaven help us if people are ok with this pandemic is being dealt with on a basis of let’s figure it out as we go along.

Rather than as some believe we are only in a state of relative lockdown because a few lads were in a packed pub in temple bar the criteria and timing of the lockdown was planned with measure put in place to mitigate the issues. We put together multiple plans to cope with the worst case scenario rather than figuring it out as we went along such as extra capacity and use of private hospitals etc etc and thankfully the vast majority hasn’t been needed.

But other countries have been capable of plans and execution as to how we move on so no reason why we cannot either imho.

easypazz

Penfailed wrote: »

Italy was in 'proper' lockdown. Even Leo doesn't call what we have a lockdown.

Mr.S wrote: »

If you look at Italy, Spain, France, parts of Asia - we are not in a "lockdown".

You are allowed leave the house whenever you want for as long as you want. Not sure how you can class that as a "lockdown'.

Horses for courses.

In countries with big cities (Wuhan 11 Million) the degree of lockdown measures will vary to say West Cork.

All non essential businesses here are closed, over 500000 people have been forced out of work, and many of their jobs and businesses face ruin.

Saying this is not a lockdown to all the people who will really suffer is insulting and demeaning tbh.

kippy

normanoffside wrote: »

And it worked brilliantly to be fair

It would have if they implement it a few weeks earlier....

drunkmonkey

Penfailed wrote: »

But it could be more restrictive. That's the point that you are ignoring.

How more restrictive could it be, the government haven't the manpower to do anything more. They can't even manage the current restrictions.

Penfailed

normanoffside wrote: »

And it worked brilliantly to be fair

They were late to the party.

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

People that didn't place value in movement dont consider it a lockdown. It is a lockdown.

But it could be more restrictive. That's the point that you are ignoring.

FintanMcluskey

ShamoBuc wrote: »

We are clearly not in a lockdown, just that restrictions have been put in place.
I'm off for a walk to clear my head, too much wine again last night.

People that didn't place value in movement dont consider it a lockdown. It is a lockdown.

normanoffside

Penfailed wrote: »

Italy was in 'proper' lockdown. Even Leo doesn't call what we have a lockdown.

And it worked brilliantly to be fair

FintanMcluskey

normanoffside wrote: »

And yet we have to take instruction from these fools.
They are using threats of extending lockdowns to cover up their own failures- going on about how many people have been out and about this weekend (which has nothing to do with the deaths they have caused).

It's smoke and mirrors stuff from the government and HSE.

Hopefully their dirty laundry will come out in the wash this week.

What was discussed on newstalk is criminal negligence. Someone has to be held responsible. The extension of restrictions is also bordering on reckless trading by Leo and Dr Tony, they wont accept responsibility Id say

ShamoBuc

We are clearly not in a lockdown, just that restrictions have been put in place.
I'm off for a walk to clear my head, too much wine again last night.

cython

Penfailed wrote: »

Italy was in 'proper' lockdown. Even Leo doesn't call what we have a lockdown.

Except he did within the last number of days. Can't easily find a video but below is a quote from the one I'm thinking of.

"Anyone who's thinking of breaking those restrictions, even just for a few hours, or an afternoon or an evening, bear in mind the consequences could be having to extend the current lockdown by two or three weeks"

Penfailed

yrreg0850 wrote: »

On the basis of yesterdays news , The 2Km .travel ban does not apply to people from NI.

In that case a person from NI can travel to their holiday home in West Cork while a resident of Ennistymon cannot travel as far as Lahinch !

On the other side anybody living within 2Km of the border can travel to a holiday home in NI and, going on the earlier statement from the Garda commissioner if you travel to your holiday home , it is now your home.
Therefore these people can now travel anywhere on the Island.

As our government allows people from NI to apply for Irish passports they are not treating all citizens equally.

I do agree with the lock down.

People in NI never had a 2km restriction (they use miles rather than km anyway). They are, however, restricted to essential travel only. If they want to travel south and are stopped by the PSNI, they can be turned back. Similarly, if they make it across the border, they can be stopped by the guards and advised to turn back. The guards have no power of enforcement though...which is a bit of a joke.

easypazz

titan18 wrote: »

Those wanting clothing shops to reopen will be the cause of deaths elsewhere it seems.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1134864/

Probably the same in every ppe factory in China, the whole world piling in the orders and nobody gives a fcuk about the people working there.

Nobody cares about those less when off when it comes down to it.

Tokyo

Mod:

Different strokes for different folks. I have been following the past few pages of posts and I appreciate that people have different opinions, but before you post, please consider that not everybody is dealing with the current situation in the same way. Kind words can make the same points.

FintanMcluskey

Balf wrote: »

I don't know, but it must be worth it.

We should be willing to close down the whole Interweb, if there's a faint hope that even one person could cling on to life for another hour as a result.

That's a signal for Balf to sign off for the duration.

The saving lives rethoric is wearing thin now. This is unfortunately ending the lives of the terminally ill and end of live patient's in care home settings. What price do we put on extension of life? Is it worth the economic abyss we will face with extended restrictions? What if someone with a functioning brain realised that the care home issue cant be saved by paddy the plasterer sitting at home wondering how he will pay his mortgage

iamwhoiam

DeanAustin wrote: »

I think it’s the perceived unfairness of the lockdown. People are assuming that “if we do x then we should be able to go back to normal in y weeks” and that’s the deal they are buying into.

It’s not that simple. We aren’t negotiating with something that can be negotiated with. The government are trying to figure this out as we go along because there are so many unknowns about this virus.

I’m not owed anything for obeying the rules and neither is anyone else. If the advice on the 5th May is a tightening of restrictions, so be it. I don’t like it but I’d rather take the advice of people who know far more about this than all of us on here and who are making these decisions for the good of our society than risk the lives of people just because I think I’m owed something from the government.

Actually what we are owed is the rules apply to everyone equally
Not that we stay in while travellers gather in crowds . Not that we stay in while people cross from NI and travel as they wish.
Not that we stay within 2 kgs while others drive to Salthill prom etc . People are not seeing their dying relatives in care homes while travellers gather in crowds on the Curragh
I get rightly pissed off that my efforts are completely undermined by others making a mockery of it. We are owed at very least that the rules apply to us all

Penfailed

easypazz wrote: »

More deflection.

So I will ask you again, what further rules are required to class this is a lockdown?

Italy was in 'proper' lockdown. Even Leo doesn't call what we have a lockdown.

Speakerboxx

Discodog wrote: »

So where are the arrests ?

The gardai are one useless force.

easypazz

BanditLuke wrote: »

we have have to trust the HSE.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's worse than that, in the panic to free up bed capacity they transferred old folk from the hospitals into the nursing homes, some of these had Covid. That's according to Newstalk this morning. They literally caused the problem which should have been the number 1 thing they didn't do.

Jesus fcuking wept.

normanoffside

titan18 wrote: »

Those wanting clothing shops to reopen will be the cause of deaths elsewhere it seems.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1134864/

And if those clothes makers in Bangladesh don't get back to work, how many of them will die of starvation?

I don't think they have a €350/week Covid Payment in Bangladesh.

Nermal

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/494034-the-data-are-in-stop-the-panic-and-end-the-total-isolation

"The overwhelming majority of people do not have any significant risk of dying from COVID-19."

...

"Vital population immunity is prevented by total isolation policies, prolonging the problem."

titan18

Those wanting clothing shops to reopen will be the cause of deaths elsewhere it seems.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1134864/

easypazz

gozunda wrote: »

Even more daft hyperbole lol.

Well it's not a lockdown for sure

No one is starving and exercise is certainly not banned. Go learn something like a new language if you really are that bored - plenty of free online resources available.

More deflection.

So I will ask you again, what further rules are required to class this is a lockdown?

DeanAustin

iamwhoiam wrote: »

The longer the authorities stretch out the lockdown with no clear plan and no clear strategy the less chance people will obey
They know it and will have to at very least make it clear what path they are on

All around I see people who stuck to all the rules and did everything they were told getting pissed of with the lack of leadership and planning

I think it’s the perceived unfairness of the lockdown. People are assuming that “if we do x then we should be able to go back to normal in y weeks” and that’s the deal they are buying into.

It’s not that simple. We aren’t negotiating with something that can be negotiated with. The government are trying to figure this out as we go along because there are so many unknowns about this virus.

I’m not owed anything for obeying the rules and neither is anyone else. If the advice on the 5th May is a tightening of restrictions, so be it. I don’t like it but I’d rather take the advice of people who know far more about this than all of us on here and who are making these decisions for the good of our society than risk the lives of people just because I think I’m owed something from the government.

normanoffside

BanditLuke wrote: »

we have have to trust the HSE on that.

Why would we trust the HSE on anything?
They are the ones who have caused a great number of deaths in nursing homes. it wasn't Jimmy going out for a run or Mary going to the shopping centre at the other side of town.

normanoffside

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's worse than that, in the panic to free up bed capacity they transferred old folk from the hospitals into the nursing homes, some of these had Covid. That's according to Newstalk this morning. They literally caused the problem which should have been the number 1 thing they didn't do.
A majority of the deaths in nursing homes are a result of this policy. It's about the dumbest thing the government could have done.

And yet we have to take instruction from these fools.
They are using threats of extending lockdowns to cover up their own failures- going on about how many people have been out and about this weekend (which has nothing to do with the deaths they have caused).

It's smoke and mirrors stuff from the government and HSE.

Hopefully their dirty laundry will come out in the wash this week.

road_high

BanditLuke wrote: »

Will have to be done as many aren't interested in playing their part. Those people will be responsible for any further extension of present measures. :mad:

Playing their part in what? If you believe asking people where they’re going shopping will stop “the virus” then I feel sorry for you

BanditLuke

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You have no rights only retractable privileges, this is house arrest make no doubt about it, something that should never be acceptable in a supposedly free country.

House arrest :pac: Stop embarrassing yourself.

BanditLuke

road_high wrote: »

Watching TASS/rte government script - apparently Gardai are going to “up the level of checks “ this week. Clearly piss all to be doing.

Will have to be done as many aren't interested in playing their part. Those people will be responsible for any further extension of present measures. :mad:

BanditLuke

easypazz wrote: »

Explain it to us so what a lockdown is?

Close shops and all starve?

Ban exercise?

We have no rights left.

Easy get some air, smell the flowers, take up a hobby, do something pal. This isnt good for you and im genuinely worried about the 5th as your holy grail and if it doesn't work out. There will be a easing of restrictions when the time is right and we have have to trust the HSE on that.