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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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Discodog

Speakerboxx wrote: »

There was quite a few responsible.
.

So where are the arrests ?

yrreg0850

easypazz wrote: »

So if they banned deliveries of non essentials it would be a real lockdown?

How many lives would be saved by banning somebody buying a new pair of shoes online?

The restrictions dont apply if you live in NI and travel south.

Balf

easypazz wrote: »

So if they banned deliveries of non essentials it would be a real lockdown?

How many lives would be saved by banning somebody buying a new pair of shoes online?

I don't know, but it must be worth it.

We should be willing to close down the whole Interweb, if there's a faint hope that even one person could cling on to life for another hour as a result.

That's a signal for Balf to sign off for the duration.

drunkmonkey

polesheep wrote: »

The authorities are responsible for the nursing home situation. They told the nursing homes not to close to visitors and they failed to help the nursing homes to prepare (PPE etc.). They have been very subtly trying to shift the blame for this onto the people with their narrative of "look at all the people who are dying because you aren't staying at home." No one should buy into it. The authorities must own the responsibility for what's happening in the nursing homes.

It's worse than that, in the panic to free up bed capacity they transferred old folk from the hospitals into the nursing homes, some of these had Covid. That's according to Newstalk this morning. They literally caused the problem which should have been the number 1 thing they didn't do.
A majority of the deaths in nursing homes are a result of this policy. It's about the dumbest thing the government could have done.

gozunda

Discodog wrote: »

It isn't. It totally depends on who you listen to because they explain when the deaths occurred. The relevant number is the actual deaths each day & the numbers in ICU, both are falling.

Nothing has been detailed. We have no real idea what restrictions will be lifted & when. Meanwhile businesses are supposed to plan.

Not into the various conspiracy theories tbh. But yes it has been detailed that restictions will he lifted as things improve. I'm sure most of us are not children - ttat we must know the exact date and time that this will happen..

The death rate no matter which way you look at is up.

Compare the figures for March and April. By the end of March some 71 people had died of the disease. Today (not quite a month later) the figure is 1,063.

We are all in the same boat. My own business included.

Benimar

Discodog wrote: »

So where are the arrests ?

I don’t even think there needs to be arrests. A more visible Garda presence around housing estates would sort a lot of it.

Unfortunately, where I am, they seem to have gone to ground. You would have to ask them why.

the kelt

Discodog wrote: »

Without entering the realm of conspiracies & given the haphazard way that figures have been released, would it suit the government to present them in a way to justify a further restriction extension ?

The increasing confusion from official lines is worrying. Throw in the lack of any semblance of a plan and its adding to the frustration and feeling of “ah sure we’ll figure it out” being the approach at the moment and it’s actually adding to the issues

I mean it’s all over the place, travellers have free reign to do what they want, people in NÍ can pop along for a day trip if they so wish and we have people on this thread seeing nothing wrong with an ordinary fella having his boot searched for groceries!

Meanwhile every number released seem to have a caveat associated, it seems getting the R0 down doesn’t matter a jot anyway and thrown into the mix we had a release of probable deaths number the other evening on top of the “here’s the last 24 hours cases and deaths” but just to clarify we don’t know if that was within the last 24 or over a number of days etc etc.

I mean I read earlier about the Belgian approach, a country that locked down later I believe, has been far worse affected than us but has laid out a plan of what will happen and people have bought into it.

People will buy into it here too once they are levelled with, not having the approach of “ah sure we’ll see” and then a tut tut at the ordinary joe who ventured more than 2k to have a chat with his elderly father through the window or the cyclist who’s strayed 5k from his home.

In situations where society had to comply the worst thing you can do is leave a vacumn of information because it gets filled with bulsh1t and rhetoric on both sides of the argument which is worse in today’s society where most people’s source of information is Sharon on Facebook and a symbol of an egg on Twitter.

At the start of all this Tony Holohan referenced the fact that he didn’t want to lock down too early because human nature means compliance will only last so long. That was encouraging for me as it indicated they were considering how people and a society naturally react in certain situations, my hope is they are still doing that or things could get messy for us all.

gozunda

easypazz wrote: »

Explain it to us so what a lockdown is?

Close shops and all starve?

Ban exercise?

We have no rights left.

Even more daft hyperbole lol.

Well it's not a lockdown for sure

No one is starving and exercise is certainly not banned. Go learn something like a new language if you really are that bored - plenty of free online resources available.

storker

easypazz wrote: »

Explain it to us so what a lockdown is?

Close shops and all starve?

Ban exercise?

We have no rights left.

Among other rights that you still have, you have the right Internet access and the right to criticise the restrictions, both of which you are exercising right now.

Maybe when your right to access a free press and your right to vote is gone too, then claiming that "we have no rights left" will be a bit less hyperbolic.

(You might be more persuasive if you dialled the melodrama back from 11.)

road_high

Watching TASS/rte government script - apparently Gardai are going to “up the level of checks “ this week. Clearly piss all to be doing.

pjohnson

easypazz wrote: »

Explain it to us so what a lockdown is?

Close shops and all starve?

Ban exercise?

We have no rights left.

I never knew so many Irish in North Korea were members of boards :pac:

drunkmonkey

storker wrote: »

Among other rights that you still have, you have the right Internet access and the right to criticise the restrictions, both of which you are exercising right now.

Maybe when your right to access a free press and your right to vote is gone too, then claiming that "we have no rights left" will be a bit less hyperbolic.

(You might be more persuasive if you dialled the melodrama back from 11.)

You have no rights only retractable privileges, this is house arrest make no doubt about it, something that should never be acceptable in a supposedly free country.

iamwhoiam

The longer the authorities stretch out the lockdown with no clear plan and no clear strategy the less chance people will obey
They know it and will have to at very least make it clear what path they are on

All around I see people who stuck to all the rules and did everything they were told getting pissed of with the lack of leadership and planning

Discodog

road_high wrote: »

Watching TASS/rte government script - apparently Gardai are going to “up the level of checks “ this week. Clearly piss all to be doing.

That means stopping people & asking meaningless questions rather than being proactive & focusing on those not social distancing. The first requires standing by the roadside the second requires actual work.

BanditLuke

easypazz wrote: »

Explain it to us so what a lockdown is?

Close shops and all starve?

Ban exercise?

We have no rights left.

Easy get some air, smell the flowers, take up a hobby, do something pal. This isnt good for you and im genuinely worried about the 5th as your holy grail and if it doesn't work out. There will be a easing of restrictions when the time is right and we have have to trust the HSE on that.

BanditLuke

road_high wrote: »

Watching TASS/rte government script - apparently Gardai are going to “up the level of checks “ this week. Clearly piss all to be doing.

Will have to be done as many aren't interested in playing their part. Those people will be responsible for any further extension of present measures. :mad:

BanditLuke

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You have no rights only retractable privileges, this is house arrest make no doubt about it, something that should never be acceptable in a supposedly free country.

House arrest :pac: Stop embarrassing yourself.

road_high

BanditLuke wrote: »

Will have to be done as many aren't interested in playing their part. Those people will be responsible for any further extension of present measures. :mad:

Playing their part in what? If you believe asking people where they’re going shopping will stop “the virus” then I feel sorry for you

normanoffside

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's worse than that, in the panic to free up bed capacity they transferred old folk from the hospitals into the nursing homes, some of these had Covid. That's according to Newstalk this morning. They literally caused the problem which should have been the number 1 thing they didn't do.
A majority of the deaths in nursing homes are a result of this policy. It's about the dumbest thing the government could have done.

And yet we have to take instruction from these fools.
They are using threats of extending lockdowns to cover up their own failures- going on about how many people have been out and about this weekend (which has nothing to do with the deaths they have caused).

It's smoke and mirrors stuff from the government and HSE.

Hopefully their dirty laundry will come out in the wash this week.

normanoffside

BanditLuke wrote: »

we have have to trust the HSE on that.

Why would we trust the HSE on anything?
They are the ones who have caused a great number of deaths in nursing homes. it wasn't Jimmy going out for a run or Mary going to the shopping centre at the other side of town.

DeanAustin

iamwhoiam wrote: »

The longer the authorities stretch out the lockdown with no clear plan and no clear strategy the less chance people will obey
They know it and will have to at very least make it clear what path they are on

All around I see people who stuck to all the rules and did everything they were told getting pissed of with the lack of leadership and planning

I think it’s the perceived unfairness of the lockdown. People are assuming that “if we do x then we should be able to go back to normal in y weeks” and that’s the deal they are buying into.

It’s not that simple. We aren’t negotiating with something that can be negotiated with. The government are trying to figure this out as we go along because there are so many unknowns about this virus.

I’m not owed anything for obeying the rules and neither is anyone else. If the advice on the 5th May is a tightening of restrictions, so be it. I don’t like it but I’d rather take the advice of people who know far more about this than all of us on here and who are making these decisions for the good of our society than risk the lives of people just because I think I’m owed something from the government.

easypazz

gozunda wrote: »

Even more daft hyperbole lol.

Well it's not a lockdown for sure

No one is starving and exercise is certainly not banned. Go learn something like a new language if you really are that bored - plenty of free online resources available.

More deflection.

So I will ask you again, what further rules are required to class this is a lockdown?

titan18

Those wanting clothing shops to reopen will be the cause of deaths elsewhere it seems.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1134864/

Nermal

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/494034-the-data-are-in-stop-the-panic-and-end-the-total-isolation

"The overwhelming majority of people do not have any significant risk of dying from COVID-19."

...

"Vital population immunity is prevented by total isolation policies, prolonging the problem."

normanoffside

titan18 wrote: »

Those wanting clothing shops to reopen will be the cause of deaths elsewhere it seems.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1134864/

And if those clothes makers in Bangladesh don't get back to work, how many of them will die of starvation?

I don't think they have a €350/week Covid Payment in Bangladesh.

easypazz

BanditLuke wrote: »

we have have to trust the HSE.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's worse than that, in the panic to free up bed capacity they transferred old folk from the hospitals into the nursing homes, some of these had Covid. That's according to Newstalk this morning. They literally caused the problem which should have been the number 1 thing they didn't do.

Jesus fcuking wept.

Speakerboxx

Discodog wrote: »

So where are the arrests ?

The gardai are one useless force.

Penfailed

easypazz wrote: »

More deflection.

So I will ask you again, what further rules are required to class this is a lockdown?

Italy was in 'proper' lockdown. Even Leo doesn't call what we have a lockdown.

iamwhoiam

DeanAustin wrote: »

I think it’s the perceived unfairness of the lockdown. People are assuming that “if we do x then we should be able to go back to normal in y weeks” and that’s the deal they are buying into.

It’s not that simple. We aren’t negotiating with something that can be negotiated with. The government are trying to figure this out as we go along because there are so many unknowns about this virus.

I’m not owed anything for obeying the rules and neither is anyone else. If the advice on the 5th May is a tightening of restrictions, so be it. I don’t like it but I’d rather take the advice of people who know far more about this than all of us on here and who are making these decisions for the good of our society than risk the lives of people just because I think I’m owed something from the government.

Actually what we are owed is the rules apply to everyone equally
Not that we stay in while travellers gather in crowds . Not that we stay in while people cross from NI and travel as they wish.
Not that we stay within 2 kgs while others drive to Salthill prom etc . People are not seeing their dying relatives in care homes while travellers gather in crowds on the Curragh
I get rightly pissed off that my efforts are completely undermined by others making a mockery of it. We are owed at very least that the rules apply to us all

FintanMcluskey

Balf wrote: »

I don't know, but it must be worth it.

We should be willing to close down the whole Interweb, if there's a faint hope that even one person could cling on to life for another hour as a result.

That's a signal for Balf to sign off for the duration.

The saving lives rethoric is wearing thin now. This is unfortunately ending the lives of the terminally ill and end of live patient's in care home settings. What price do we put on extension of life? Is it worth the economic abyss we will face with extended restrictions? What if someone with a functioning brain realised that the care home issue cant be saved by paddy the plasterer sitting at home wondering how he will pay his mortgage