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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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drunkmonkey

wadacrack wrote: »

Relation of restrictions is not really going to help the situation at this time. For a few days it will feel great but it is the core problem will still be their and it will be much worse with the disease impacting every town/community on a much greater scale. More death and more severe illness in the population it will be truly awful and the economy and social life will be severely impacted.Its not a choice between economy and health, this situation is not so black and white. It was a month ago we wanted to stay home and save lives and now as a society it seems a large minority just cant deal with it anymore. The mental health impact is not going away. Its unavoidable in a pandemic. The lack of perspective and looking at this with a long term view is mind boggling. The disease doubles in 3 days if we go back to normal,so if restrictions are lifted slightly, we are in trouble. The South Korean model is worth following considering the path we have chosen to take with suppressing the virus , which means we need much lower daily case counts. Society needs to start accepting the new way of life for now, it may take years for normality to resume.

China didn’t shut down China, Dublin is our Wuhan and should be treated as such, as there’s a possibility of another general election Leo or a Harris won’t make that call as they know their chances of re-election are slim, Leo only barely scraped in after many counts. This isn’t as much about protecting our lives anymore it’s about protecting theirs.
Tony is a political appointee, championed abortion, oversaw the cluster feck that was the cervical scandal and is now running the country. The wrong people are at the forefront of this.
Have you seen any of them wearing gloves and masks yet their having meetings every day indoors with multiple people and we can’t climb a hill over 2km away.
Wake up and smell the coffee your being taken for an unwashed plague carrying slave by your rulers and you believe it.

gozunda

GazzaL wrote: »

I haven't seen any Gardai wearing facemasks.We were told we would see a return to action if we hit the targets, which we have not only hit, but obliterated. Professor Nolan said since early April the growth rate of new cases was effectively zero.

And I have seen Gardai wearing fasemasks, gloves etc. Where does that leave us?

As I said- if you've personally witnessed careless behaviour by tte Gardai- report it.

Whichever it is - it certainly is not an excuse for everyone to do their own thing.

We have reduced the R0 purely by sticking to restrictions. The numbers are going down but we are certainly not at the point where everything can be thrown out and where the hard fought reduction in the R0 will skyrocket again.

Yes of course the restrictions will he rolled back but not thrown out the window as some seem to want

BillyBiggs

timmy_mallet wrote: »

I dont understand how people can be so optimistic about vaccine, working in the industry, I dont see it at happening in any reasonable time frame. Our best hope is our own immune systems, healthier people and some sort of acceptance of sickness.

Exactly. Wait for the announcement in a week or so. Something along the lines of “We are really happy with the attitude of most Irish people during lockdown. We unfortunately can not reopen on May 5th, due to our infection rate failing to fall as we had hoped. We are going to have to lockdown for a further 2 weeks, by which time we expect the virus to be under control”- Dr. Leo.

drunkmonkey

gozunda wrote: »

And I have seen Gardai wearing fasemasks, gloves etc. Where does that leave us?

As I said- if you've personally witnessed careless behaviour by tte Gardai- report it.

Whichever it is - it certainly is not an excuse fif everyone to do their own thing.

We have reduced the R0 purely by sticking to restrictions. The numbers are going down but we are certainly not st the point where everything can be thrown out and where the hard fought reduction in the R0 will skyrocket again.

Yes of course the restrictions will he rolled back but not thrown out the window as some seem to want

I know it’s a traveller but at the same time it’s state over reach https://www.facebook.com/farmersmichael/videos/2752506514826483/
If that wasn’t a traveller there would be blood on the streets,

GazzaL

gozunda wrote: »

And I have seen Gardai wearing fasemasks, gloves etc. Where does that leave us?

As I said- if you've personally witnessed careless behaviour by tte Gardai- report it.

Whichever it is - it certainly is not an excuse for everyone to do their own thing.

We have reduced the R0 purely by sticking to restrictions. The numbers are going down but we are certainly not at the point where everything can be thrown out and where the hard fought reduction in the R0 will skyrocket again.

Yes of course the restrictions will he rolled back but not thrown out the window as some seem to want

Everybody understands that social distancing and good hygiene practices will be needed, but we need to get the country back up and running before it's completely destroyed and before we're hit with a wave of suicides. Some of our fellow European countries have had restrictions eased for weeks at this stage.

BillyBiggs wrote: »

Exactly. Wait for the announcement in a week or so. Something along the lines of “We are really happy with the attitude of most Irish people during lockdown. We unfortunately can not reopen on May 5th, due to our infection rate failing to fall as we had hoped. We are going to have to lockdown for a further 2 weeks, by which time we expect the virus to be under control”- Dr. Leo.

According to Professor Nolan, since early April the growth rate of new cases was effectively zero. Is zero not good enough now?

ZX7R

wadacrack wrote: »

Relation of restrictions is not really going to help the situation at this time. For a few days it will feel great but it is the core problem will still be their and it will be much worse with the disease impacting every town/community on a much greater scale. More death and more severe illness in the population it will be truly awful and the economy and social life will be severely impacted.Its not a choice between economy and health, this situation is not so black and white. It was a month ago we wanted to stay home and save lives and now as a society it seems a large minority just cant deal with it anymore. The mental health impact is not going away. Its unavoidable in a pandemic. The lack of perspective and looking at this with a long term view is mind boggling. The disease doubles in 3 days if we go back to normal,so if restrictions are lifted slightly, we are in trouble. The South Korean model is worth following considering the path we have chosen to take with suppressing the virus , which means we need much lower daily case counts. Society needs to start accepting the new way of life for now, it may take years for normality to resume.

Easier said than done, for us to follow the south Korean path.
Although denied on main stream media.
There is big friction happening between the HSE and NPHET.
Over expansion of testing.
We may have the technical ability to ramp up testing to 100000 tests a week.
That is not the problem , basically manpower is the problem lack of personal to physically carry out the swab testing ECT.
There is a growing concern of the lack of awareness of things at ground level and NPHET implemention of there plans.

BillyBiggs

GazzaL wrote: »

Everybody understands that social distancing and good hygiene practices will be needed, but we need to get the country back up and running before it's completely destroyed and before we're hit with a wave of suicides. Some of our fellow European countries have had restrictions eased for weeks at this stage.
.According to Professor Nolan, since early April the growth rate of new cases was effectively zero. Is zero not good enough now?

Don’t worry they’ll find a spike in numbers

JRant

gozunda wrote: »

No serious authority is saying 'we have to stay locked down" forever ffs

Thats simply hyperbole. It already been detailed that restrictions will be eased as things improve.

The primary objective is to stop the health service being overrun and rates of infection climbing out of control. Thats it really.

As for the Gardai - maybe make a complaint if you've personally witnessed arbarent behaviour such as you describe. Its certainly not an excuse of 'oh look at them"!

Maybe save the ffs as I never mentioned forever in my post. All the indications coming from Harris and the CMO are that we will remain in lockdown. That's not hyperbole, that's fact.

Things have already improved well past the original limits set by them. R0 is at 0.5, new cases falling, ICU admissions falling and still a large number of ICU beds in reserve. I think it's only fair to ask what exactly do they want before easing of restrictions. A clear plan, if you will, and transparency on how / why they decided on the particular numbers.

We have achieved the primary goals set out so what next?

Why would I report any Garda, they are just doing their job. It's disappointing that PPE usage isn't mandatory for them but if an individual Garda can decide to not wear it that's on them, unless senior management tell them otherwise.

timmy_mallet

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Yes, your locked up for two weeks if you do travel though. We can stop this completely on our little island, requires a government to get un woke though something Leo and Harris aren’t capable of.

"Woke". I'm out.

timmy_mallet

BillyBiggs wrote: »

Exactly. Wait for the announcement in a week or so. Something along the lines of “We are really happy with the attitude of most Irish people during lockdown. We unfortunately can not reopen on May 5th, due to our infection rate failing to fall as we had hoped. We are going to have to lockdown for a further 2 weeks, by which time we expect the virus to be under control”- Dr. Leo.

Er, no. The majority of society is accepting the sickness.

BillyBiggs

According to Professor Nolan, since early April the growth rate of new cases was effectively zero. Is zero not good enough now?[/quote]

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0425/1134732-holohan-coronavirus-restrictions-compliance/

Have a read of the above. There will be no appetite in our government to reopen on May 5th. Testing for the virus is also increasing, which will put our infection rate through the roof.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

GooglePlus wrote: »

Will be interesting to see what happens on May 5th. They'll probably give an inch and we'll most certainly take a mile, so they'll probably base that inch on the mile we take.

We're gonna be under some form of restrictions until a vaccine, that's for sure.

I think this is exactly what will happen. Every decision has to be based around what the least intelligent or most irresponsible people will do.

gozunda

GazzaL wrote: »

Everybody understands that social distancing and good hygiene practices will be needed, but we need to get the country back up and running before it's completely destroyed and before we're hit with a wave of suicides. Some of our fellow European countries have had restrictions eased for weeks at this stage.

According to Professor Nolan, since early April the growth rate of new cases was effectively zero. Is zero not good enough now?

What fuking 'waves of suicides'? Complete hyperbole. And yes sadly and unfortunately there has always been people who commit suicide. Thats unlikely to change to any great extent imp. However If any one feels depressed or down - there are very good services - just a phone call away. And yes there is a balance between infection rates potentially skyrocketing and minding people due to mental health issues.

Most of the European countries were hit hard weeks earlier than here. Italy for example still still massive restrictions.

There is no blanket rule for all countries afaik.

And again the R0 or rate of infection has decreased. But it is not at zero. Go get rid of all our current restrictions and that will climb straight back up and it will most likley overwhelm the health services.

The death rate and new cases are still climbing in case you haven't seen the daily stats. Hopefully with the rate of infection (RO) now reduced - we should start to see reductions in both of those figures. Fingers crossed.

It does not mean we can do what we like just 'cos we is bored' or whatever.

Of course restriction will be moved as we go forward. That has been detailed many times already.

timmy_mallet

BillyBiggs wrote: »

According to Professor Nolan, since early April the growth rate of new cases was effectively zero. Is zero not good enough now?

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0425/1134732-holohan-coronavirus-restrictions-compliance/

Have a read of the above. There will be no appetite in our government to reopen on May 5th. Testing for the virus is also increasing, which will put our infection rate through the roof.[/QUOTE]

Infection rate through the roof, and our hospitilsarion/icu/death rate through the floor.

drunkmonkey

timmy_mallet wrote: »

"Woke". I'm out.

Leo is eyeing a careere in Europe hence he's following the were all Europeans and can't close our borders. We're in a unique situation being an island and leo won't take advantage of it as it's not the woke thing to do. The same applies to lifting restrictions in some parts of the country. We're all Dubliners now.

timmy_mallet

gozunda wrote: »

What fuking 'waves of suicides'? Complete hyperbole. And yes sadly and unfortunately there has always been people who commit suicide. Thats unlikely to change to any great extent imp. However If any one feels depressed or down - there are very good services - just a phone call away. Snd yes there is a balance between infection rates potentially skyrocketing and minding people due to mental health issues.

Most of the European countries were hit hard weeks earlier than here. Italy for example still still massive restrictions.

There is no blanket rule for all countries afaik.

And again tte R0 or rate of infection has decreased. But it us not at zero. Go get rid of all our current restrictions and that will climb straight back up and it will most likley overwhelm the health services.

The death rate and new cases are still climbing in case you havnt seen the daily stats. Hopefully with the rare of infection (RO) now reduced - we should start to see reductions in both of those figures. Fingers crossed.

It does not mean we can do what we like just 'cos we is bored' or whatever.

Of course restriction will be moved as we go forward. That has been detailed many times already.

Perhaps this needs to be pinned somewhere, R0 has sailed, globally, forever.

timmy_mallet

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Leo is eyeing a careere in Europe hence he's following the were all Europeans and can't close our borders. We're in a unique situation being an island and leo won't take advantage of it as it's not the woke thing to do. The same applies to lifting restrictions in some parts of the country. We're all Dubliners now.

As I said. I'm out.

zerosugarbuzz

timmy_mallet wrote: »

You be happy with that being reciprocal? You think business travel wont resume, I'd doubt that.

Most business travel is a waste. 90%+ can be done over the phone or video conferencing. That should be one good thing that comes out of this.

begbysback

wadacrack wrote: »

Relation of restrictions is not really going to help the situation at this time. For a few days it will feel great but it is the core problem will still be their and it will be much worse with the disease impacting every town/community on a much greater scale. More death and more severe illness in the population it will be truly awful and the economy and social life will be severely impacted.Its not a choice between economy and health, this situation is not so black and white. It was a month ago we wanted to stay home and save lives and now as a society it seems a large minority just cant deal with it anymore. The mental health impact is not going away. Its unavoidable in a pandemic. The lack of perspective and looking at this with a long term view is mind boggling. The disease doubles in 3 days if we go back to normal,so if restrictions are lifted slightly, we are in trouble. The South Korean model is worth following considering the path we have chosen to take with suppressing the virus , which means we need much lower daily case counts. Society needs to start accepting the new way of life for now, it may take years for normality to resume.

You seem to be missing the point completely, the virus is here, people are going to get infected, and that’s the new normality, house arrest is not the new normality.

timmy_mallet

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Most business travel is a waste. 90%+ can be done over the phone or video conferencing. That should be one good thing that comes out of this.

Dont disagree. 10%, but.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

GoneHome wrote: »

This puts it totally in persective, jesus people it's not that difficult, myself and OH have been off work with a month now and we're really relishing it, we've got all those long finger jobs done around the house and garden, reading all the books we never had time for before, watching great tv series, listening to music, going for long walks, cooking and baking nice food and all the while getting €350 each from the government with nothing to spend it on only €100 once a week in Dunnes on food, relax people and stay at home.

I'm not finding it too difficult either. But like you I'm locked down in a house where I have someone else for company, plenty of room, a nice garden and I enjoy cooking, baking and reading.
I'm not stuck in a one bedroomed apartment with no outside space.
I'm not trying to work while simultaneously mind two toddlers in a house with only one living area.
I'm not all on my own in an area where no one knows anybody.
I'm not suffering from mental health problems.
I'm not worried sick about an elderly parent who is not coping well and lives miles away from me.

I do agree that some of the moaners and restriction breakers are just self absorbed whiners.

But there are a lot of people genuinely struggling with this, and not in a position to just put on a cheery smile and spruce up the house and garden.

timmy_mallet

Lyanna Shallow Ore wrote: »

I do agree that some of the moaners and restriction breakers are just self absorbed whiners.

Crass generalisation. Some people are just self absorbed whiners. As observed with both sides of the locdown debate.

zerosugarbuzz

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Dont disagree. 10%, but.

Well I’ve worked in rolls for 20 years that involve as much travel as j deem needed. I chose to limit mine as much as possible for my lifestyle. Obvious over the past number of weeks their has been none and everyone is happy with zoom and Google hangouts. A lot of business travel is about the social side of things as much as the actual business.

growleaves

‘I want my life back’: Germans rail against Covid-19 lockdown

GazzaL

gozunda wrote: »

What fuking 'waves of suicides'? Complete hyperbole. And yes sadly and unfortunately there has always been people who commit suicide. Thats unlikely to change to any great extent imp. However If any one feels depressed or down - there are very good services - just a phone call away. Snd yes there is a balance between infection rates potentially skyrocketing and minding people due to mental health issues.

Most of the European countries were hit hard weeks earlier than here. Italy for example still still massive restrictions.

There is no blanket rule for all countries afaik.

And again tte R0 or rate of infection has decreased. But it us not at zero. Go get rid of all our current restrictions and that will climb straight back up and it will most likley overwhelm the health services.

The death rate and new cases are still climbing in case you havnt seen the daily stats. Hopefully with the rare of infection (RO) now reduced - we should start to see reductions in both of those figures. Fingers crossed.

It does not mean we can do what we like just 'cos we is bored' or whatever.

Of course restriction will be moved as we go forward. That has been detailed many times already.

Did you see the suicide statistics from the last recession posted a few pages back? Those services won't catch everyone, far from it. People aren't allowed to see their families and friends, they're losing their jobs, they're losing their businesses, they're losing deposits on homes, they're losing their homes. Their lives are being destroyed. Are their lives worth nothing?

The "complacency" that's commencing will really be complacency if the Government/HSE go all in on keeping the lockdown because they won't be able to get people to buy into it. Any hope of that evaporated with Gardai attending house parties and the laws not applying to certain people.

New case numbers are misleading unless you go deeper than the headline number. Two important caveats are when were the tests carried out, and is an increase in testing the reason for the higher numbers. According to Professor Nolan, since early April the growth rate of new cases was effectively zero. I think we can all be happy with that.

BillyBiggs wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0425/1134732-holohan-coronavirus-restrictions-compliance/

Have a read of the above. There will be no appetite in our government to reopen on May 5th. Testing for the virus is also increasing, which will put our infection rate through the roof.

It's all very well saying there's no appetite in Government, we know nobody wants to make a decision, but you'd want to be seriously blinkered if you think the public want to be kept in lockdown. There are huge numbers out and about again, it's increasing every day, and you can't keep a lid on it.

growleaves

https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1253000648318226434?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

growleaves

The Government's "strategy" turns them into perpetual jailers.

It is the first attempt in history to quarantine the healthy rather than the sick.

We need a new "strategy".

BanditLuke

growleaves wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1253000648318226434?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

This is fantastic to see and exactly the approach we need here in Ireland. Fine them hard and heavy as these vermin think they above the law.

easypazz

Woodies have said they are gearing up for a May 5th reopening, getting staff in to prepare stores etc.

Looks like hardwares and construction after May 5th, loads more traffic on the roads again with that. Too much for Garda to mount endless road blocks.

Not looking great for the lockdowners.

growleaves

Machine learning could check if you’re social distancing properly at work