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Sweden avoiding lockdown

frillyleaf

Does Sweden have the right approach to this and how is their healthcare system being able to manage Covid19 cases?

What are the differences between Sweden and Ireland and why can’t we continue similar to how Sweden is managing Covid19?

I’m not suggesting either is right or wrong. I would just like to know how Sweden can continue as normal and other countries can’t. Thanks ðŸ˜Š

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biko

Other European countries with 10 million inhabitants each are Greece and Portugal.
Sweden 976 dead
Greece 99 dead
Portugal 535 dead, neighbour to Spain with an enormous 15000 dead

Widdensushi

STB. wrote: »

Absolute deaths are the only numbers that count and the universal way of presenting them. You cannot look at numbers on a cold per million basis. This is not a stock check, its the lives of people lost.

919 people are dead in Sweden, that's more than all the other Nordic countries combined.

they have a similar population to the other nordic countries combined

STB.

Deleted User wrote: »

We don't really know for sure, but it looks like we are.

We do. Our numbers are going up. They haven't come down.

We haven't reached our first peak, never mind the madness of a second peak which will happen if they drop restrictions too quickly. Something I do not even want to think about.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

A week or so ago the HSE said they had a surge plan that could see critical care capacity go to 800 beds if necessary.

A plan.

812. Dependant on ventilators and staff trained to use them. A ventilator is not a microwave oven with plug play. In any event they have neither right now.

They have 500 ICU beds nationwide.

Dr Liam Woods, the Health Service Executive’s national director of acute hospital operations, confirmed that regular ICU units at three of Dublin’s biggest hospitals, Beaumont, Connolly and the Mater, were full but that they had “surge” capacity to use other beds created for critical care.

There were 132 empty ICU beds overall in the hospital system, he said, and a capacity to transfer patients to other hospital ICUs around and outside Dublin.

There were an “underlying” 312 ICU beds but “surge plans nationally” to bring that up to 812, though this was contingent on the training of nurses and on the availability of ventilators and oxygen.

Dr Emily O’Conor, president of the Irish Association of Emergency Medicine, said hospital ICU units in Dublin were “becoming stretched” and that staffing ICU-type beds in overflow areas created by hospitals to prepare for the pandemic was “going to become a problem”

SOURCE: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-doctors-fear-covid-19-yet-to-peak-in-the-state-as-icus-near-full-capacity-1.4224457

[Deleted User]

Danno wrote: »

How nice to pick Saturday's 8,000 tests - the only day we ever managed a decent amount since the crisis unfolded. We were doing fifteen hundred a day up to that. We closed some of our fifty testing centres cause there wasn't enough people or tests.

There was a shortage of reagents mainly. Not people or tests. If you don't have the equipment you can't test regardless how many people you have.

Alf Veedersane

STB. wrote: »

800 ICU beds ? There are 500.

A week or so ago the HSE said they had a surge plan that could see critical care capacity go to 800 beds if necessary.

Danno

sydthebeat wrote: »

for you:

On Saturday it processed nearly 8,000 tests, using German laboratories. The UK, which has a population more than ten times the size of Ireland’s, processed 18,000.

How nice to pick Saturday's 8,000 tests - the only day we ever managed a decent amount since the crisis unfolded. We were doing fifteen hundred a day up to that. We closed some of our fifty testing centres cause there wasn't enough people or tests.

Laois_Man

Glenomra wrote: »

We have been repeatedly advised for decades by commentators on RTE and the Irish times etc to follow what the Scandinavian countries do as regards social policy etc. Not a dickey bird out of them now as Sweden leads the way in dealing sensibly with this virus.

Widdensushi wrote: »

so they are doing fantastic compared to the us who are in lockdown

Who are boards.ie posters to say what's sensible when 2,000 Swedish scientists have signed a petition pleading with their government to enforce a far stricter lock down!

Neither their lack of testing, nor their death rate of 91 per 1 million is anything to be envious of! A country with twice our population and still less tests and a higher death rate than us - even before you account for the fact that they dont seem to be counting everyone!

[Deleted User]

Widdensushi wrote: »

so they are doing fantastic compared to the us who are in lockdown

Their numbers are suspiciously low. Not counting care home deaths, not counting people with pre existing conditions, and not testing are 3 ways that you can massage the death numbers. I can't find info on how they do the stats.

STB.

Deleted User wrote: »

In the UK they don't count deaths in care homes, whereas here we do - currently over 50% of our total. This makes even the death rate comparisons unreliable.

Yes. That's convenient isn't it. They have effectively airbrushed the numbers out to hide the government's complacency. The UK haven't been playing ball since day one. Their advisers and politicians should be hung upside down by the balls from the top of Big Ben. They went off on a mad crusade advocating herd immunity, let people do what they want and then realised all too late that their "experts" were wrong. They are in serious trouble.

Widdensushi wrote: »

so they are doing fantastic compared to the us who are in lockdown

No. Sweden are not doing fine, but you know that having read what I have already posted (the clue was in 919 people are dead in Sweden, that's more than all the other Nordic countries combined.). You can ignore it I suppose and think everything is fine, if you wish of course.

duffman13

Deleted User wrote: »

Fake news. There is no source quoted here, just some opinion piece. So we can dismiss it. Or do you hold different standards when you quote something?

Eh, there is a few different people quoted in the article. The overwhelming theme from the UK is we wont know until this is over what was the right course of action.

Some fair criticism of the UK allowing large events to still go ahead but offset by specialists talking about population density and how London is an international hub etc.

Free one month trial too

Widdensushi

STB. wrote: »

Absolute deaths are the only numbers that count and the universal way of presenting them. You cannot look at numbers on a cold per million basis. This is not a stock check, its the lives of people lost.

919 people are dead in Sweden, that's more than all the other Nordic countries combined.

so they are doing fantastic compared to the us who are in lockdown

[Deleted User]

sydthebeat wrote: »

do you mean here in ireland? its been confirmed we count nursing home deaths

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/nursing-home-residents-make-up-more-than-half-of-irelands-covid-19-toll-993501.html

or if you are referring to sweden, no they do not

Here we do, in the UK they do not. So you can probably double Sweden and the UK death numbers going on our experiences here.

[Deleted User]

STB. wrote: »

Absolute deaths are the only numbers that count and the universal way of presenting them. You cannot look at numbers on a cold per million basis. This is not a stock check, its people lives.

919 people are dead in Sweden, that's more than all the other Nordic countries combined.

In the UK they don't count deaths in care homes, whereas here we do - currently over 50% of our total. This makes even the death rate comparisons unreliable.

sydthebeat

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder do they count deaths in the dishonest way they do in the UK, excluding care homes, w?

do you mean here in ireland? its been confirmed we count nursing home deaths

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/nursing-home-residents-make-up-more-than-half-of-irelands-covid-19-toll-993501.html

or if you are referring to sweden, no they do not

STB.

Deleted User wrote: »

Again they quote absolute deaths as opposed to deaths per 1M of population. On this metric, they are still in trouble, at 91, whereas Ireland are not far behind at 74.

I wonder do they count deaths in the dishonest way they do in the UK, excluding care homes, which account for over half the deaths here, and doing minimal testing which means that many who die from corona weren't tested so therefore aren't included in the stats?

Absolute deaths are the only numbers that count and the universal way of presenting them. You cannot look at numbers on a cold per million basis. This is not a stock check, its the lives of people lost.

919 people are dead in Sweden, that's more than all the other Nordic countries combined.

[Deleted User]

STB. wrote: »

Sobering.

Sweden are in serious trouble. As if the complete testing mess isn't enough, household contacts of cases do not need to quarantine in Sweden. Their hospitals already becoming overwhelmed. They have 5.8 ICU beds per 100k. Not good.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-lockdown-doctor-death-certificates-latest-a9462796.html

Again they quote absolute deaths as opposed to deaths per 1M of population. On this metric, they are still in trouble, at 91, whereas Ireland are not far behind at 74.

I wonder do they count deaths in the dishonest way they do in the UK, excluding care homes, which account for over half the deaths here, and doing minimal testing which means that many who die from corona weren't tested so therefore aren't included in the stats?

jim-mcdee

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We don't really know for sure, but it looks like we are.

Exactly. The confirmed cases of today, the tests were actually taken god knows when.

virginmediapls

Deleted User wrote: »

We don't really know for sure, but it looks like we are.

That's not what they have been saying on the news the past few days.

begbysback

sydthebeat wrote: »

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/irelands-swift-action-leaves-uk-facing-questions-over-its-coronavirus-strategy-gwpkpzq3q

good to see ireland getting some international praise for our actions

Not sure why reports are quoting deaths per cases as ratio of deaths per 100k, the stat is completely irrelevant as no country has an accurate count on cases.

sydthebeat

Deleted User wrote: »

It's behind a paywall. We aren't all rich like you with subscriptions to lots of international media.

ive quoted the opening paragraph above.

and in the interest of balance, it isnt a gushing piece.... the author does quote a couple of sources which make the point that just because approaches are different, doesnt make one of the more right than the other.

similar to the swedish approach... it will have its critics (like me), and its supporters..... and its good to debate these things out... nd call out what both sides see as wrong on the other.

there an interesting little quote in this piece which does show the startling difference in approaches between UK and ireland...

While Cheltenham was going ahead, and over 250,000 people were gathering in what would have been a massive super-spreader event, Ireland had cancelled St Patrick’s Day.

[Deleted User]

STB. wrote: »

NO WE ARE NOT.

We don't really know for sure, but it looks like we are.

STB.

Sobering.

Sweden are in serious trouble. As if the complete testing mess isn't enough, household contacts of cases do not need to quarantine in Sweden. Their hospitals already becoming overwhelmed. They have 5.8 ICU beds per 100k. Not good.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-lockdown-doctor-death-certificates-latest-a9462796.html

STB.

Deleted User wrote: »

We are past our predicted peak FOR THIS WAVE. As best we can tell from the stats, most people haven't been infected yet. Open things up again and see what happens.

NO WE ARE NOT.

Widdensushi wrote: »

Up to 800 beds was the figure given in the news conference yesterday, they also said there were less people in ICU than the previous day with covid

800 ICU beds ? There are 500. (EDIT I have read the article - Their plan is to scale up to 812. They don't have 812, nor the staff trained nor the ventilators. You are listening to what you want to hear.

How many less ? One day is not a stat (and I am going to check it).

Danno

Holding Borris and company to account using a twitter rant as a source of your investigative journalism does not reflect as professionalism from the MSM industry.

Over the water the MSM got burnt by Fauci just last night - yet the MSM learns nothing.

[Deleted User]

sydthebeat wrote: »

did you not read the article i quoted :D:D:D

It's behind a paywall. We aren't all rich like you with subscriptions to lots of international media.

sydthebeat

Danno wrote: »

What is the obsessiveness about in this country in seeking validation from international peers?

Also, we didnt go into lockdown "nearly two weeks" ahead of the UK as the opening salvo in that article stated.

Pubs and clubs closed here on March 16th. It was March 23rd in the UK. So, the article is wrong from the get-go...

This all seems to have flared up from an Elaine Doyle tweet over the weekend which was littered with inaccuracies, but it suited the lazy MSM to take another twitter rant as some sort of investigative journalism piece.

for you:

As the scale of the crisis dawned last month, Ireland and Britain took different approaches. On March 9 the Irish government cancelled all St Patrick’s Day parades, which were to have taken place the following week. Mr Varadkar said on March 12 that schools and colleges would close, and banned indoor gatherings of more than 100 people. By March 15 pubs were closed as well.

Boris Johnson waited until March 20 to shut schools and order pubs, cafés, restaurants, bars and gyms to close. Three days later he announced restrictions on people’s movement. Asked on March 12 about the contrasts with Ireland, Mr Johnson’s spokesman had said: “We follow our own advice, they will do the same.”

Relative to the population, Ireland is also testing far more for the virus. On Saturday it processed nearly 8,000 tests, using German laboratories. The UK, which has a population more than ten times the size of Ireland’s, processed 18,000.

sydthebeat

Deleted User wrote: »

Fake news. There is no source quoted here, just some opinion piece. So we can dismiss it. Or do you hold different standards when you quote something?

did you not read the article i quoted

:D:D:D

Danno

sydthebeat wrote: »

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/irelands-swift-action-leaves-uk-facing-questions-over-its-coronavirus-strategy-gwpkpzq3q

good to see ireland getting some international praise for our actions

What is the obsessiveness about in this country in seeking validation from international peers?

Also, we didnt go into lockdown "nearly two weeks" ahead of the UK as the opening salvo in that article stated.

Pubs and clubs closed here on March 16th. It was March 23rd in the UK. So, the article is wrong from the get-go...

This all seems to have flared up from an Elaine Doyle tweet over the weekend which was littered with inaccuracies, but it suited the lazy MSM to take another twitter rant as some sort of investigative journalism piece.

loyatemu

Deleted User wrote: »

IHME are making it up predicting as they go along.

they're revising their predictions as new figures become available, it's inevitably not going to be that accurate as every country is reporting in different ways and the actual death and infection rates for the virus are not confirmed. At the same time they've revised the UK figures down, they've moved the Swedish figures up, but if the Swedes introduce more restrictions they'll revise them again I suppose.

soupandpoitin wrote:

We are past our predicted peak FOR THIS WAVE. As best we can tell from the stats, most people haven't been infected yet. Open things up again and see what happens.

you're basically saying the same number will die but over a longer period, I don't think that's the case. If the infection rate goes below 1 the outbreak will peter out. Sure we'll get another outbreak but you would hope we'll have learned enough to get future outbreaks under control quicker, and a vaccine should be available within a year. If there was no prospect of a vaccine, then yeah, everyone would eventually get it, but the death rate would still be lower as we wouldn't have people dying due to a lack of ICU capacity.

[Deleted User]

sydthebeat wrote: »

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/irelands-swift-action-leaves-uk-facing-questions-over-its-coronavirus-strategy-gwpkpzq3q

good to see ireland getting some international praise for our actions

Fake news. There is no source quoted here, just some opinion piece. So we can dismiss it. Or do you hold different standards when you quote something?