The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

blanch152 wrote: »

AIG International isn't paying for the Dublin sponsorship, that would come out of the local budget, yet you chose to use the international profit figures for AIG International. Apples and oranges, either compare AIG International to Intersport International or compare the two local operations. Otherwise the comparison is disingenuous. The reality is both are part of large international operations, and being in different industries, it is impossible to compare.

It is another example of how the figures are twisted on this thread, using central GDF money from the GAA only and counting it over the full decade, in order to ignore the GDF money provided by provincial councils as well as other central funds and also masking the decline in recent years.

I'll be honest, I don't know who is paying the Dublin sponsorship.

I didn't make the claim that Mayo are sponsored by a huge International company. You did.

Now let's see your proof.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But you are only seeing what you want to see.
Dublin were underachieving drastically so it only stands to reason that they would see a level of improvement if they put any decent structure in place.
In other words Dublin had regressed well below the mean - in terms of population etc they should have not fallen so far.
But suddenly when it suits you the popilation argument is not used when Dublin were underachieving?

It leads me to the next question how come Kerry can keep up the levels of domimace when other counties cannot?
Derry recieve more funding then Mayo what has happpened them.

Surely this demonstrates that GAA is not caused just by funding ?
Cork nearly got a 12 in a row in ladies football.
Why was it not Dublin?
It is clear that funding does not guarantee success which is implied on this thread constantly.
There are numerous holes in the belief.

No I see the facts. Kerry, with average resources and relatively small investment, outperformed dublin with monsterous resources and ridiculous investment. That is what you just posted...
You seem to think dublin deserve credit for that?

Dublin underachieving drastically is both dublin's own doing and dublins issue. Why should everyone else carry that can? Man utd cant go to the fa and say ah here lads we used to be good, bur arent now. You might play all the games in old trafford and give us all the money until we win everything will you? This is in a nutshell, your argument.

The reason kerry were able to have periods of domination is the same reason derry have fallen away, albeit temporarily I would expect, is the culture within the county. Kerry have created a culture where gaa is high on peoples interests. This is what every other county needs to do. This is what dublin actually needed to do, instead of looking for a bailout which was the easy way out.

It is quite simple, if you dont think the funding is directly responsible for the success, pay it all back and get rid of the sponsors. Dublin has plenty of fans who could share the costs of the team and they dont have to stay in hotels, they are the most team who dont actually even need sponsorship.

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I've pointed out to you the profits of Elverys Ireland, €1.14 million.

Now show us the proof that Intersport International is paying for the sponsorship of the Mayo football team.

You've made an allegation, lets see the proof.

AIG International isn't paying for the Dublin sponsorship, that would come out of the local budget, yet you chose to use the international profit figures for AIG International. Apples and oranges, either compare AIG International to Intersport International or compare the two local operations. Otherwise the comparison is disingenuous. The reality is both are part of large international operations, and being in different industries, it is impossible to compare.

It is another example of how the figures are twisted on this thread, using central GDF money from the GAA only and counting it over the full decade, in order to ignore the GDF money provided by provincial councils as well as other central funds and also masking the decline in recent years.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You seem to want it both ways Dublin have 25% of the population yet you say they are overfunded.

I am exploring other solutions - it works in rugby leinster players go to Connacht/Munster
It is up to the players whether they are willing to move of course it would strengthen their teams.

A few years ago Longford were half decent if you put 4/5 decent Dublin club players (on the cusp of senior intercounty) it would have made the world of difference to them.

Somehow this solution seems to put you out a bit?

There's very limited economic opportunities in Longford, or Carlow, Wexford, Laois, etc. Unless they had a job in Dublin, and lived in Longford and commuted.

It works for Rugby because its professional and that's their job.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well what is to the detriment of dublin players now is the fact that 25% of the country are fighting it out to play on one team. Strange you are concerned about them back then but not now.
Similarly, you arent that concerned about the 70 odd lads who would get doled out to other counties yet may be dyed in the wool dubs themselves, yet you cannot fathom the most logical, fair and obvious solution of just having 2 dublin teams.
So maybe spare us the faux concern about dublin club players, thanks.

You seem to want it both ways Dublin have 25% of the population yet you say they are overfunded.

I am exploring other solutions - it works in rugby leinster players go to Connacht/Munster
It is up to the players whether they are willing to move of course it would strengthen their teams.

A few years ago Longford were half decent if you put 4/5 decent Dublin club players (on the cusp of senior intercounty) it would have made the world of difference to them.

Somehow this solution seems to put you out a bit?

blanch152 wrote: »

Why would you have Intersport on the jersey, when Elverys are the Intersport brand in Ireland and GAA has an almost exclusive audience in Ireland?

I've pointed out to you the profits of Elverys Ireland, €1.14 million.

Now show us the proof that Intersport International is paying for the sponsorship of the Mayo football team.

You've made an allegation, lets see the proof.

blanch152 wrote: »

Back to the Future stuff here.

If Dublin get funding and are successful, then it is financial doping. If Dublin get funding and aren't successful, then they are wasting the money.

The real answer is that the money isn't the main reason for success, having the most talented group of players to ever play the game led by an excellent manager is the main reason.

Actually i was saying they were being wasteful when they were winning, i.e. kerry spent relatively little and still outperfomed the huge spending dublin...

Well if that is the case you can give it all back then and cancel the sponsorship deals... Until that happens, you cant make the claim that it isnt down to money.

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Why do you keep comparing the two counties?

One county received huge GDF funds after which it saw a remarkable increase in success across the board.

The other is traditionally strong at GAA and received limited GDF in comparison. And has seen a decline in success in recent years. If anything, its Kerry who need GDF assistance now.

Because the two counties are the most successful football counties in the history of the GAA.

I could compare Cork, Galway, Meath to Kerry/Donegal/Monaghan if you wish but that will only show again that funding is not the sole cause of success when it comes to the GAA.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Also I was thinking about another thing that I have not seen mentioned.
How many Dublin clubs got foreign players in Dublin clubs Paul Galvin, Corrigan, McGeeney, Parkinson etc
This is/was to the determent of Dublin players.

It got me thinking it could work the other wau.
Where could be a draft system where the weaker counties/any county in Leinster can pick 4/5 Dublin players each (who have not played senior intercounty) it would strengthen thier panels and improve the players around them by playing with better players?

Well what is to the detriment of dublin players now is the fact that 25% of the country are fighting it out to play on one team. Strange you are concerned about them back then but not now.
Similarly, you arent that concerned about the 70 odd lads who would get doled out to other counties yet may be dyed in the wool dubs themselves, yet you cannot fathom the most logical, fair and obvious solution of just having 2 dublin teams.
So maybe spare us the faux concern about dublin club players, thanks.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

All that shows is that kerry with there average population and limited investment were able to achieve all of and more than what dublin were with their financial doping out their ears and every advantage under the sun...
Which raises all sorts of questions about the dublin structures being best in class, investment in dublin being hugely wasteful and who hold the best claim to being the best team of all time..

It doesnt justify anything though.

But you are only seeing what you want to see.
Dublin were underachieving drastically so it only stands to reason that they would see a level of improvement if they put any decent structure in place.
In other words Dublin had regressed well below the mean - in terms of population etc they should have not fallen so far.
But suddenly when it suits you the popilation argument is not used when Dublin were underachieving?

It leads me to the next question how come Kerry can keep up the levels of domimace when other counties cannot?
Derry recieve more funding then Donegal what has happened them?

Surely this demonstrates that GAA is not caused just by funding ?
Cork nearly got a 12 in a row in ladies football.
Why was it not Dublin?
It is clear that funding does not guarantee success which is implied on this thread constantly.
There are numerous holes in the belief.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

All that shows is that kerry with there average population and limited investment were able to achieve all of and more than what dublin were with their financial doping out their ears and every advantage under the sun...
Which raises all sorts of questions about the dublin structures being best in class, investment in dublin being hugely wasteful and who hold the best claim to being the best team of all time..

It doesnt justify anything though.

Back to the Future stuff here.

If Dublin get funding and are successful, then it is financial doping. If Dublin get funding and aren't successful, then they are wasting the money.

The real answer is that the money isn't the main reason for success, having the most talented group of players to ever play the game led by an excellent manager is the main reason.

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The sponsorshop deal comes out of Elverys accounts I'd say, otherwise the sponsorship would be for Intersport so it would make sense to have Intersport on the jersey if that was the case.

So you need to provide proof that Intersport are paying out the money.

I didn't allege AIG International were paying for the Dublin sponsorship, just that AIG are a huge company both in Ireland and internationally, whereas Elverys are a very small Irish company with very small profits.

Why would you have Intersport on the jersey, when Elverys are the Intersport brand in Ireland and GAA has an almost exclusive audience in Ireland?

tikkahunter

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

You ask for a response, get one, then ignore it. I assume this is because you see you are wrong and now just want it to go away...

No lad I’m in work but don’t worry, I’ll respond in a while

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Dublin and Kerry are similar in terms of domiannce you look at this:

In fact it can be argued that Dublin have not reached the levels of dominance Kerry have had in the past.
Or the levels of consistency of domaince except for the exception of ladies football.
Surely if Dublin's level of Dominace is not good for the game (as argued by some) then Kerry's is just as bad or worse?

Why do you keep comparing the two counties?

One county received huge GDF funds after which it saw a remarkable increase in success across the board.

The other is traditionally strong at GAA and received limited GDF in comparison. And has seen a decline in success in recent years. If anything, its Kerry who need GDF assistance now.

Also I was thinking about another thing that I have not seen mentioned.
How many Dublin clubs got foreign players in Dublin clubs Paul Galvin, Corrigan, McGeeney, Parkinson etc
This is/was to the determent of Dublin players.

It got me thinking it could work the other wau.
Where could be a draft system where the weaker counties/any county in Leinster can pick 4/5 Dublin players each (who have not played senior intercounty) it would strengthen thier panels and improve the players around them by playing with better players?

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Dublin and Kerry are similar in terms of domiannce you look at this:

In fact it can be argued that Dublin have not reached the levels of dominance Kerry have had in the past.

All that shows is that kerry with there average population and limited investment were able to achieve all of and more than what dublin were with their financial doping out their ears and every advantage under the sun...
Which raises all sorts of questions about the dublin structures being best in class, investment in dublin being hugely wasteful and who hold the best claim to being the best team of all time..

It doesnt justify anything though.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

A) dublin and kerry are no ways similar. If you cant see that, call it off altogether.

No I dont think the money should be cut. Well actually I think every child in the country should get the same level of coaching and investment. Maybe that means their funding comes down a little to even it out, but generally speaking, no I dont want to starve dublin of funds at all. That would be a backward step. It is also the main reason why splitting dublin is the way to go. That way we keep the development going while reinvigorating the intercounty game.

Dublin and Kerry are similar in terms of domiannce you look at this:

In fact it can be argued that Dublin have not reached the levels of dominance Kerry have had in the past.
Or the levels of consistency of domaince except for the exception of ladies football.
Surely if Dublin's level of Dominace is not good for the game (as argued by some) then Kerry's is just as bad or worse?

blanch152 wrote: »

You are comparing Elverys Ireland to AIG International, when the comparison should either be Intersport to AIG International, or Elverys Ireland to AIG Ireland.

The sponsorshop deal comes out of Elverys accounts I'd say, otherwise the sponsorship would be for Intersport so it would make sense to have Intersport on the jersey if that was the case.

So you need to provide proof that Intersport are paying out the money.

I didn't allege AIG International were paying for the Dublin sponsorship, just that AIG are a huge company both in Ireland and internationally, whereas Elverys are a very small Irish company with very small profits.

blanch152 wrote: »

Oh the ignorance, the ignorance. Elverys employ over 700 people, are linked internationally to Intersports, essentially part of an international buying consortium. I don't know where you get the idea that they are not a massively wealthy company, compared to say Lifestyle.

I notice you say some individual players in Mayo have deals with car dealerships. How do you think the other players feel when Aidan rocks up in his 191 Audi? Pat Gilroy and Jim Gavin instilled a team ethic in Dublin, where every player is as important as the next, eliminating the cult of the individual. That didn't happen in Mayo.

Ignorance indeed. Elverys were in exanimership not that long ago. I recall seeing their staff outside mchale park at mayo games making people aware of their plight. I dont recall seeing AIG outside the croke park hotel...
Why have you ignored the rest of the post and tried to redirect the debate onto aidan oshea? Just picking one facile sidepoint to argue with then running away doesnt cut it as a reasonable response. It shows you are afraid to discuss the actual content.
Furthermore, Bernard brogan was on the supervalue ads was he not? Eliminating the cult of individual eh?

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I'm afraid the ignorance is coming from you.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/07/aig-earnings-q1-2019.html

The had a profit of $1.39 billion in Q1 alone! Which if carried through the whole year would be potentially over $5 billion in profit.

As opposed to:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/sports-retailer-elverys-back-in-profit-as-expansion-on-the-cards-1.2962670

So Dublin's sponsor makes a quarterly profit of $1.39 billion.
Mayos made a full year profit of €1.14 million pretax.

You are comparing Elverys Ireland to AIG International, when the comparison should either be Intersport to AIG International, or Elverys Ireland to AIG Ireland.

It is also very difficult to find the full profits for Intersport International

https://www.ispo.com/en/companies/intersport-international-record-revenue-figures#targetText=Intersport%20International%20increases%20revenue%20in%202017%20and%20grows&targetText=Intersport%20International%20is%20the%20largest,(including%20Athlete's%20Foot%20stores).

However, this link suggests that they had €11.5 bn in revenues, hardly a mum and pop operation.

El Vino

having grown up in a small rural village where the only sport you could play without someone driving you to training was GAA, any immigrant unlucky enough to turn up in our village would have to play GAA. I can understand that this is different in more urban areas. Kids tend to be heavily influenced by their parents sporting interests. A good analogy is living in London now, very few of my Irish friend's kids play cricket, there are exceptions mainly if the kid is in private school but they are exceptions.

Funnily being involved in a GAA club in London we have lots of kids with no connection with Ireland, playing mainly as they go to Catholic school and get involved through their friends or the school although some just appear in the parks we train in and want to try it as it looks fun - this is invariably football though not hurling.

I don't think anyone can argue that Dublin have huge advantages, playing numbers, sponsorship and funding and players all living within the county. Can they be overcome, yes of course otherwise Ireland could never win at rugby against England but it needs incredible organisation and planning.

blanch152 wrote: »

Oh the ignorance, the ignorance. Elverys employ over 700 people, are linked internationally to Intersports, essentially part of an international buying consortium. I don't know where you get the idea that they are not a massively wealthy company, compared to say Lifestyle.

I'm afraid the ignorance is coming from you.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/07/aig-earnings-q1-2019.html

AIG’s adjusted net income rose to $1.39 billion, or $1.58 per share, in the first quarter ended March 31, from $963 million, or $1.04 per share, a year earlier.

The had a profit of $1.39 billion in Q1 alone! Which if carried through the whole year would be potentially over $5 billion in profit.

As opposed to:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/sports-retailer-elverys-back-in-profit-as-expansion-on-the-cards-1.2962670

The company recorded a €1.14 million pretax profit compared to a €20.1 million loss a year earlier as it opened a number of new retail outlets and saw an increase in footfall in existing stores, following a revamp.

So Dublin's sponsor makes a quarterly profit of $1.39 billion.
Mayos made a full year profit of €1.14 million pretax.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

When you think of it back in 2003 the GAA were justifiably worried about the gaelic games and Dublin in particular,

Dublin were not even in a Leinster Final 03 and 04
Munster were runners Hieniken Cup Finals in 1999 and 2001 - Rugby was growing
Leinster rugby would be soon the march - golden generation of players
BOD was the rugby poster boy.
Ireland had just played in the 2002 world cup in soccer - Robbie Keane from Tallaght was flying at his sport

Things looked bleak very bleak lose Dublin and the GAA were f**ked,

So because Dublin weren't in a Leinster final for two years running, something had to be done.

Mayo haven't been in a Connacht final four years running. Does that also mean millions will be thrown at them?

When Mayo don't reach a provincial final, they are accused of not being good enough. When Dublin don't reach a provincial final, its a national emergency that demands millions be thrown at the problem.

And you wonder why there's no credibility to modern GAA?

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Again, I never said no other county has any sponsors. Im sure elverys sponsor some level of gear. Elverys are not a massively wealthy company though, so I would wonder what level of sponsorship they have in comparison to dublin's deal.
Re mayos food, I dont believe they do. The county board pays. Some individual players have deals with car dealerships or restaurants, but it isnt the mayo team, like it is for the dublin team.
Re hotels, mayo have stayed in several different hotels while in dublin, so obviously they dont have any deal with any hotel like dublin have with the Gibson hotel. What dublin hotel would sponsor dublins biggest rival of the last few years? Get real man. Those bills go into mayos expenses. What is making up dublins expenses?

As for the rest of your post, a load of waffle. You asked me to address your post, I did, you now ignore vast swathes of that response. Can you address the per game spending please? Can youa ddress the county fans putting their hand in their pockets for their county team and why you have an issue with that please? You are the only guy running away now...

Oh the ignorance, the ignorance. Elverys employ over 700 people, are linked internationally to Intersports, essentially part of an international buying consortium. I don't know where you get the idea that they are not a massively wealthy company, compared to say Lifestyle.

I notice you say some individual players in Mayo have deals with car dealerships. How do you think the other players feel when Aidan rocks up in his 191 Audi? Pat Gilroy and Jim Gavin instilled a team ethic in Dublin, where every player is as important as the next, eliminating the cult of the individual. That didn't happen in Mayo.

tikkahunter wrote: »

Maybe outside of Dublin they do but the proof is in the pudding go down to any Saturday or Sunday games down the local parks in Dublin and you will see the high number of immigrant kids playing soccer and not GAA , it will be there right in front of your eyes and factual.

Of course they don't play gaelic in the park.

Millions thrown at increasing participation including participation of immigrants, and they don't play the game either in the park or at a high enough level to be selected for county teams

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Well if a player is doing a free gig for a commercial entity then he's an idiot imo though i find it hard to believe tbh unless he was doing a favour for a family member of mate

We have it straight from a players representative.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/dublin-football-stars-commanding-hefty-fees-for-promotional-appearances-38193584.html

The extraordinary success enjoyed by the Dublin footballers since 2011 has sent the players' earning power soaring to levels never previously seen in the history of the GAA with as much as €6,000 for a single promotional appearance, depending on the player and the company involved.
These startling revelations come at a time when Dublin's dominance in Leinster is driving down attendances, with the public opting to save their cash for more competitive games in their 'drive for five'.
The Irish Independent has learned that the representative of one Dublin player recently gave €6,000 as the price for a promotional appearance.

More head burying nonsense from Dublin posters.