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"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forw

Nody

Note anything after this post may contain spoilers for the episode; do not read or open this thread until you have watched the whole episode!!!

This is ONLY about the specific episode! No information from any other source but listed below are allowed to be posted but book related information is allowed as well as the lore from the DVDs. Anything relating to interviews or articles directly related to this episode can be posted with a spoiler tag.

The "Next Episode" and any speculation on what may come in the future episodes should be put in the appropriate stickied Season 8 speculation thread; any funny pictures from the episode should be posted in this thread until Wednesday rather than the funny picture thread.

Note - No spoiler tags required for the current episode in this thread.

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walshb

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Plus sequel with Arya? Bran as King.. Er I guess! :rolleyes:

Please, pleases, please god......no!

MOH

meeeeh wrote: »

This is just daft. It's just entertainment, I'm starting to think too many people have unhealthy obsession with the show.

bigslice wrote: »

This. Some utter utter drivel been written about the last season and genuinely think that no matter the ending it would have been the same. Some people just wanted to have a moan and value their own opinion too much.

Mightn’t have been perfect in places, rushed elsewhere but some would have it up there with Fair City!

I'm starting to think some people are incapable of basic critical thinking.
Or else they're just stuck in fanboi land and take every criticism as something personal.
If somebody enjoyed the last season, great, good luck to them glad they enjoyed it.

But there's nothing wrong with pointing out the massive failures, lack of internal consistency, and general poor writing that's been prevalent.

Annabella Obnoxious Bayou wrote: »

There's a lot of people who are not capable of formulating their own opinions and go with whatever reddit says. At least provide an alternative instead of just whinging and crying about it. It's perfectly fine to dislike something, but this thread is a train wreck of copied opinions. Dexter is comparable to GOT? Not even close, they are not even remotely similar.

People are not able to see past the opinions which they are told to have on reddit, facebook, twitter etc.

I avoided reddit, FB, twitter etc before expressing my own opinion: which is that this season has been a total train wreck.

And as for Dexter, sure it literally ended the same way.

Dany's body carried off into a storm, and Jon heading off to be a lumberjack. Only difference is Dany is the killer

The finale was actually hilarious. Some great visuals, would have made a superb rock video. But all style, no substance. At least it had some genuine laugh out loud moments, unfortunately not intentionally.

Macy0161

I must be the only one to take it that the Nightswatch doesn't still exist and it was just a ploy to get him out of Kings Landing alive, and he goes to live happily ever after north of the wall. iirc he was the only crow there...

fwiw I don't think the ending was that bad - the damage has been the rush job rather than the story.

Yermande

Game of Thrones has been an enjoyable romp and I tip my hat to everyone that made it happen. I remember the bad old days of medieval fantasy on Sky One on Saturday afternoons. We've come a long way since then. Even when it faltered, as it frequently did, it was compelling viewing, particularly for genre nerds like myself.

However the writing and performances dropped through the the floor in recent years. Last night's episode was so poorly written and paced it's actually quite hard to accept. The writers and producers just wanted to get it wrapped up. That's quite obvious. It's a shame it ran out of steam but eight seasons is still a good run.

I know I'm comparing apples and oranges here, but it's not a patch on the likes of The Sopranos, The Wire, Breaking Bad and Mad Men. Well written characters portrayed by top quality actors is the common denominator there. Game of Thrones didn't have enough of either.

facehugger99

On the upside, I had a big bowl of All Bran to celebrate last night and have been as regular as clockwork today.

Yermande

My brother has finally caved and said he's gonna watch the entire series because he likes Sean Bean. Good luck with that bro.

DeadHand

Still shaking my head over Bronn as Master of Coin today.

How could an illiterate soldier with no experience or, prior to his final scene, interest in governance deal with the Iron Bank? And the Crown would have a lot of work to do with the IB after years of warfare and devastation.

Why would Bronn, who by his own admission wanted a quiet life at this stage, accept probably the most stressful Small Council position? He already had more gold than he could spend in a lifetime with his acquisition of Highgarden and overlordship of the Reach.

Tyrion knows better than anyone that he is an extremely greedy, amoral and unserious individual, so why would he be insane enough to trust him with the country’s finances at that crucial time?

It’s a minor plot point but such a lazy, contrived, silly ending for a fan favorite that it bugs me.

Yermande

DeadHand wrote: »

Still shaking my head over Bronn as Master of Coin today.

How could an illiterate soldier with no experience or, prior to his final scene, interest in governance deal with the Iron Bank? And the Crown would have a lot of work to do with the IB after years of warfare and devastation.

Why would Bronn, who by his own admission wanted a quiet life at this stage, accept probably the most stressful Small Council position? He already had more gold than he could spend in a lifetime with his acquisition of Highgarden and overlordship of the Reach.

Tyrion knows better than anyone that he is an extremely greedy, amoral and unserious individual, so why would he be insane enough to trust him with the country’s finances at that crucial time?

It’s a minor plot point but such a lazy, contrived, silly ending for a fan favorite that it bugs me.

It's really quite simple. Bronn was made Master of Coin because the writers wanted to place him in one final goodbye scene and that's the best they could come up with.

Penn

If anything I would have thought Bronn would be more suited to Master of War given his expertise in that area.

everlast75

Yermande wrote: »

My brother has finally caved and said he's gonna watch the entire series because he likes Sean Bean. Good luck with that bro.

When he gets to the end of the first series, he's going to lose his head!

Yermande

DeadHand wrote: »

Still shaking my head over Bronn as Master of Coin today.

How could an illiterate soldier with no experience or, prior to his final scene, interest in governance deal with the Iron Bank? And the Crown would have a lot of work to do with the IB after years of warfare and devastation.

Why would Bronn, who by his own admission wanted a quiet life at this stage, accept probably the most stressful Small Council position? He already had more gold than he could spend in a lifetime with his acquisition of Highgarden and overlordship of the Reach.

Tyrion knows better than anyone that he is an extremely greedy, amoral and unserious individual, so why would he be insane enough to trust him with the country’s finances at that crucial time?

It’s a minor plot point but such a lazy, contrived, silly ending for a fan favorite that it bugs me.

We could also ask why Bronn was given Highgarden at all? He extracted a promise from Tyrion, under heavy duress, and now Brann is going to honour it? Why?

Then again Tyrion is clearly an influential figure. Despite being a failed Hand to three different monarchs he still has enough authority to successfully argue that the entire system of rule be radically and fundamentally changed forevermore, and nobody even raised their hand to ask a question.

I'm actually going to stop writing. I've already given this piece of glorious nonsense too much of my time.

Stop moaning ffs

Well I dunno about this.

BREAKING: Game of Thrones TV show lore-master & writer Bryan Cogman now leading Amazon’s LOTR series.

He is known as the “third head” alongside Benioff & Weiss whose job was to maintain book fidelity across the GoT TV series. He is also responsible for “Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken” an episode that broke many fans with a storyline not in the books.

meeeeh

Yermande wrote: »

I know I'm comparing apples and oranges here, but it's not a patch on the likes of The Sopranos, The Wire, Breaking Bad and Mad Men. Well written characters portrayed by top quality actors is the common denominator there. Game of Thrones didn't have enough of either.

Did you watch the last season of The Wire? It's my favourite tv show but you last season was dire. So were last two or so seasons if Mad Men.

As for actors, most who are criticised were selected as kids or just out of drama school. It's a lot harder to know what they are like than someone with years of experience behind them.

Foxtrol

lawlolawl wrote: »

But they already lived North of the Wall so they are well used to winter, that's literally where it comes from.

They took a break that was conviently long enough for Jon to leave Winterfell, assist in taking Kings Landing, commit treason,be imprisoned for weeks (months?) for treason, be partially exonerated and banished and finally make his way to castle black just in time?

Nonsense. It's just more of the "this thing has to happen despite being utterly ridiculous" thinking that the hacks writing this garbage have been doing all season.

Children mashing their action figures together.

"Wouldn't it be cool if........?!?" is a terrible way of writing a TV show or movie.

On horseback in good weather it is supposed to take at least 3 weeks to get from Winterfell to The Wall, while the wildlings are making the trip during deep winter, had few if any horses, have many children in their group that would be even slower and requiring more rest and shelter, are carrying many supplies to survive the trip slowing them even further, and are in absolutely no rush to get to The Wall.

Look there are plenty of flaws in this season, but all this pedantic crap is crazy. If you put the show from season 1 onwards under the same sort of microscope, you’d find most episodes riddled with the exact same sort of ‘utterly ridiculous’ pedantic lists of issues that people are wasting their time putting together now to justify their feelings. Once people start to dislike a show, they appear to have lose all imagination and ability to suspend disbelief. Rather than going along with the story they go out of their way to try to turn everything into a plot hole or bad writing.

DeadHand

Yermande wrote: »

It's really quite simple. Bronn was made Master of Coin because the writers wanted to place him in one final goodbye scene and that's the best they could come up with.

Of course, I agree.

It’s just shameful that they didn’t care enough to give it a little thought and make him Master of War or some such so they could have shoehorned into the final scene in a more logical way.

[Deleted User]

meeeeh wrote: »

Did you watch the last season of The Wire? It's my favourite tv show but you last season was dire. So were last two or so seasons if Mad Men.

As for actors, most who are criticised were selected as kids or just out of drama school. It's a lot harder to know what they are like than someone with years of experience behind them.

I knew this to not be true but had to double check anyway. There's no dip in the reviews on imdb. Its consistent throughout.

everlast75

Yermande wrote: »

We could also ask why Bronn was given Highgarden at all? He extracted a promise from Tyrion, under heavy duress, and now Brann is going to honour it? Why?

Because a Lannister always pays his debts and as he is the hand of the king, he can make the payment happen.

Yermande wrote: »

Then again Tyrion is clearly an influential figure. Despite being a failed Hand to three different monarchs he still has enough authority to successfully argue that the entire system of rule be radically and fundamentally changed forevermore, and nobody even raised their hand to ask a question.

Being a Hand three times over makes him pretty successful I would say. He is also wise and an eloquent speaker, is held in high regard to those he was speaking to etc

J. Marston

McNulty inventing a serial killer is up there in stupidity with bringing a wight back from beyond the wall.

expectationlost

meeeeh wrote: »

Did you watch the last season of The Wire? It's my favourite tv show but you last season was dire.

again because HBO wouldn't give them a full seasons shows

Cina

meeeeh wrote: »

Did you watch the last season of The Wire? It's my favourite tv show but you last season was dire. So were last two or so seasons if Mad Men.

As for actors, most who are criticised were selected as kids or just out of drama school. It's a lot harder to know what they are like than someone with years of experience behind them.

the last season of The Wire was far from dire, it just wasn't as good as the previous seasons. It had a bit of a silly main plot-line but generally closed out most of the strands and character arcs from throughout the series really well. GoT on the other hand was an enormous drop-off in writing quality, with endless plot holes, and they butchered most of the show's primary characters. It's almost incomparable.

meeeeh

expectationlost wrote: »

again because HBO wouldn't give them a full seasons shows

No extra time would improve serial killer/newspaper storyline.

Yermande

meeeeh wrote: »

Did you watch the last season of The Wire? It's my favourite tv show but you last season was dire. So were last two or so seasons if Mad Men.

As for actors, most who are criticised were selected as kids or just out of drama school. It's a lot harder to know what they are like than someone with years of experience behind them.

Anytime I think back on The Wire it's always with a little asterisk in mind because of how poorly realised the serial killer device was in season 5. And yet like you it's still one of my favourite shows of all time because, on the whole, the writing and performances are on a different level. I'm not saying it's perfect. I watched it again last year and certain aspects have dated and there are a number of dud performances, but only in small roles thankfully.

As for Mad Men's final two seasons being 'dire'. Well, different stokes I guess. Personally, I think Don's gradual 'change', culminating in that final, deeply ambiguous (and I think cynical) smile is one of the all time great TV character arcs and it required those final seasons to make it pay off. It wouldn't have worked coming off the back of season 5. Whatever it is, it's earned.

With regard to GoT's kid actors. I'm not criticising the show for something the producers couldn't have prevented. They picked plenty of young talent at the time but not all of them came through by the end. That's just how it goes. The same goes for AJ in The Sopranos. He was out of his depth by the end. I personally don't think it's a 'failure' of a show however it's hard to completely ignore it when looking back and forming your final thoughts on what you've just watched.

lawlolawl

Foxtrol wrote: »

On horseback in good weather it is supposed to take at least 3 weeks to get from Winterfell to The Wall, while the wildlings are making the trip during deep winter, had few if any horses, have many children in their group that would be even slower and requiring more rest and shelter, are carrying many supplies to survive the trip slowing them even further, and are in absolutely no rush to get to The Wall.

Travel time ceased to matter a few seasons ago when the writers just wanted the characters to teleport around the map having "cool" interactions with each other.

This was another prime example of this. There was no logic behind the Wildings still being there waiting for Jon at Castle Black.

Yermande

everlast75 wrote: »

Because a Lannister always pays his debts and as he is the hand of the king, he can make the payment happen.

So the All-Knowing Brann, who must surely realise the calibre and character of Bronn the Sellsword, must now let him sit on his King's Council because a Lannister always pays his debts?

There's not a doubt in my mind that that's exactly how the writers explained it to themselves.

Penn

lawlolawl wrote: »

This was another prime example of this. There was no logic behind the Wildings still being there waiting for Jon at Castle Black.

When Thormund was saying goodbye to Jon at Winterfell, he said they were going to wait at Castle Black for some storms or something to pass before going North of the Wall. Presumably they were just still there when Jon got there, and there was probably still some time between Jon arriving at Castle Black and them heading North of the Wall.

They weren't waiting for Jon, they were just waiting anyway.

RollieFingers

meeeeh wrote: »

Did you watch the last season of The Wire? It's my favourite tv show but you last season was dire. So were last two or so seasons if Mad Men.

As for actors, most who are criticised were selected as kids or just out of drama school. It's a lot harder to know what they are like than someone with years of experience behind them.

Compared in relation to the previous four seasons the last season of The Wire wasn't as good as them, but it definitely wasn't dire.

Yermande

meeeeh wrote: »

No extra time would improve serial killer/newspaper storyline.

Agreed. It was a bad idea right from the off.

I still think it's a solid season though, particularly in how it portrays the sheer nihilism of Marlo Stanfield.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Cina wrote: »

...they butchered most of the show's primary characters...

Probably one of the best things about this show. Anybody and everybody was for the butchers block

Yermande

Foxtrol wrote: »

On horseback in good weather it is supposed to take at least 3 weeks to get from Winterfell to The Wall, while the wildlings are making the trip during deep winter, had few if any horses, have many children in their group that would be even slower and requiring more rest and shelter, are carrying many supplies to survive the trip slowing them even further, and are in absolutely no rush to get to The Wall.

...but all this pedantic crap is crazy.

Ugh, okay.

Foxtrol

lawlolawl wrote: »

Travel time ceased to matter a few seasons ago when the writers just wanted the characters to teleport around the map having "cool" interactions with each other.

This was another prime example of this. There was no logic behind the Wildings still being there waiting for Jon at Castle Black.

Pretty much my point, travel time has been loose at best for most of the show (admittedly worse as the show progressed) and don't get me start on ridiculous coincidences for 'cool interactions' right from the first season, but now you’re having a big pedantic moan about it now in this specific situation, despite there being plenty rational explanations as to why they could still be there.

Again, I’m perfectly fine with anyone not liking the episode or season, but trying to justify it with a sudden onset of pedanticness for every scene and interaction is just silly.