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Margaret Cash steals €300 worth of clothes from Penneys and aftermath/etc!

jjmcclure

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/homeless-mumofseven-margaret-cash-appears-in-court-over-stealing-300-worth-of-clothes-from-penneys-37434491.html

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Ri_Nollaig

Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: »

Some settled children leave school early too, of course, but the disparity is striking: 86 percent of the settled population complete secondary education, as compared with just 8 percent of Travellers.

The OECD's Education at a Glance report notes that employment prospects for people without a Leaving Cert have plummeted in recent years. Less than half of early school-leavers now get jobs. Unsurprisingly, one in four female early school leavers and one in five males reporting suffering from depression.

The message is clear -- someone who leaves school between age 12 and 15, as most Travellers do, has little chance at a future that does not involve social welfare dependency or crime.

Early school-leaving and early marriage, both designed to protect the insularity and thus continuity of Traveller culture, are at the core of Travellers' social problems. These "traditions" ensure that many Travellers end up illiterate and saddled with children even before they are out of their teens. While young settled women are off in university furthering their education and preparing for a career, many of their Traveller peers are stuck in a caravan pregnant and/or raising kids, without even a Junior Cert to their name.

This has to end. But by recognizing Travellers as an ethnic minority, defending their "culture" to the hilt, and characterizing any criticism of Travellers as racist right-wing bigotry, the liberal left is only standing in the way of change.

If I could thank this twice I would.

It sums up the problem perfectly. Education is the key to solving it but in the quest to be seen as progressive as possible the liberal types have only made it worse!

Lollipops23

dermo888 wrote: »

'This has to end' - correct. The worst of it has to end. But its a matter of persuasion. Look at how the Aboriginal community in Australia are handled, a community far more disadvantaged and loathed compared to the Irish Travellers. The gypsies in continental Europe are despised too, due to their abject criminality and inability to conform to modern societal norms.

I mean I'm native Irish (as far back as anyone in either side of the family knows, at least 5-6 generations in the Pale, never mind anywhere else!).

Those DNA kit yokes say we're 96% Irish, although I take that with a grain of salt.

Where does it end?

blanch152

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Those stats are indeed hard to believe, but i am quoting directly from the available research.

Traveller health and life expectancy is the greatest human rights crisis in modern Ireland - we don't recognise it now, but future generations will judge us harshly for our apathy.

The last Census looked at travellers in depth.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp8iter/p8iter/p8itd/

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp8iter/p8iter/p8itseah/

What these figures show us is that traveller culture results in women being taken out of education at a young age, married off and turned into baby factories.

Some say traveller culture is a good thing, I don't.

Now it doesn't have figures on life expectancy, but the population profiles would support the idea that there is a lower life expectancy.

dermo888

84% Irish myself, the rest being a mix of English (8%), Spanish (5%), Greek/Turkish (2%), Nordic (1%). Plus the results of that bloody type survey keep changing since they are actually reliant and those who supply actual details of their ancestry. Mind thats off topic for here.

Beyond that, I want better for the Travelling community, but first they must want it for themselves.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Lollipops23 wrote: »

I mean I'm native Irish (as far back as anyone in either side of the family knows, at least 5-6 generations in the Pale, never mind anywhere else!).

Those DNA kit yokes say we're 96% Irish, although I take that with a grain of salt.

Where does it end?

We're the same, not a planter's surname in sight on the family tree. All ancient Irish. We shouldn't have to pay tax.

Although I did show up in a DNA test with twice the amount of 'Iberian' in me as normal in an Irish person.

We think that one of our womenfolk might have got loose with a Spanish sailor back in 1588.

BattleCorp

blanch152 wrote: »

The last Census looked at travellers in depth.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp8iter/p8iter/p8itd/

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp8iter/p8iter/p8itseah/

What these figures show us is that traveller culture results in women being taken out of education at a young age, married off and turned into baby factories.

Some say traveller culture is a good thing, I don't.

Now it doesn't have figures on life expectancy, but the population profiles would support the idea that there is a lower life expectancy.

This is from a UCD report back in September 2010. It's a bit out of date by now but it does show life expectancy figures. Full link below if you have the time.

https://www.ucd.ie/t4cms/AITHS_SUMMARY.pdf

hurler32

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/mans-whiplash-claim-dismissed-as-judge-says-certain-actions-are-bringing-system-into-disrepute-37839408.html

Yet another traveller involved in some form of a fraudulent - exaggerated personal injury claim

Quazzie

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm on my phone. It's a nightmare trying to multi quote using the mobile app. I have read all the replies, will reply when I'm back at my desk. Chill, petal.

You still not back at your desk?

Or are you ready to admit you're just trolling?

corks finest

nice_guy80 wrote: »

they don't even give the young kids a chance!

most traveller families do not take up the free preschool place that are FREE for their children. ITS FREE!!! you just have to bring them there 5 days a week. maybe thats the issue - no free transport.
where the kids might learn a few basic skills to help them - washing hands, social skills, proper language and vocabulary, counting, letters, how to play etc
any difficulties might be picked up on - speech and language, sight etc that could be treated while the child is young

they land into primary school at 5.
usually with no uniform, books or anything.
Then go running to the local social welfare officer to look for more money for that.

You may laugh,be amazed ,or call me a liar,at Scoil an spioraid naoimh bishoptown, when my son attended, school provided( 3 years) 2 taxis to and from school to campsite off the straight road cork,this changed to a wait for it. LIMO ,excuse that it was cheaper as there were another few traveller kids needed to attend,( at the time I was traveling 13 miles each way,,I was bloody incensed- I questioned the vice head,now principal,( Brian Cuthbert- ex Cork football coach)and was told no comment,it was aired on Red FM who also couldn't get a comment from the school,I went with a video cam stood opposite the entrance to the site, captured every vehicle leaving and entering ,back to the school - still no joy,my point was I was driving a 11 ye old banger yet still made it to school,yet all the travellers vehicles were much newer than mine and they couldn't be bothered to bring their kids on the 10 m drive to school,,,,crazy stuff,this has now stopped AFAIK,100 percent true,pm me anyone who doesent believe me,,,,

BBFAN

corks finest wrote: »

You may laugh,be amazed ,or call me a liar,at Scoil an spioraid naoimh bishoptown, when my son attended, school provided( 3 years) 2 taxis to and from school to campsite off the straight road cork,this changed to a wait for it. LIMO ,excuse that it was cheaper as there were another few traveller kids needed to attend,( at the time I was traveling 13 miles each way,,I was bloody incensed- I questioned the vice head,now principal,( Brian Cuthbert- ex Cork football coach)and was told no comment,it was aired on Red FM who also couldn't get a comment from the school,I went with a video cam stood opposite the entrance to the site, captured every vehicle leaving and entering ,back to the school - still no joy,my point was I was driving a 11 ye old banger yet still made it to school,yet all the travellers vehicles were much newer than mine and they couldn't be bothered to bring their kids on the 10 m drive to school,,,,crazy stuff,this has now stopped AFAIK,100 percent true,pm me anyone who doesent believe me,,,,

Can't even read that crap.

tretorn

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/woman-accused-of-exaggerating-insurance-claim-absconded-from-court-gardai-37839032.html

Good Christ.

ShaneC93

tretorn wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/woman-accused-of-exaggerating-insurance-claim-absconded-from-court-gardai-37839032.html

Good Christ.

That's what a lenient court system results in, they don't care ffor or respect the Gardai or the Justice system because they have no reason to fear - do any crime short of murder, have 100s of convictions and you're still looking at a fully suspended sentence.

Odelay

BBFAN wrote: »

Can't even read that crap.

I could read it with ease. Why can’t you read it?

freshpopcorn

corks finest wrote: »

You may laugh,be amazed ,or call me a liar,at Scoil an spioraid naoimh bishoptown, when my son attended, school provided( 3 years) 2 taxis to and from school to campsite off the straight road cork,this changed to a wait for it. LIMO ,excuse that it was cheaper as there were another few traveller kids needed to attend,( at the time I was traveling 13 miles each way,,I was bloody incensed- I questioned the vice head,now principal,( Brian Cuthbert- ex Cork football coach)and was told no comment,it was aired on Red FM who also couldn't get a comment from the school,I went with a video cam stood opposite the entrance to the site, captured every vehicle leaving and entering ,back to the school - still no joy,my point was I was driving a 11 ye old banger yet still made it to school,yet all the travellers vehicles were much newer than mine and they couldn't be bothered to bring their kids on the 10 m drive to school,,,,crazy stuff,this has now stopped AFAIK,100 percent true,pm me anyone who doesent believe me,,,,

This is just one of these things that people may not like but it's these things the government has to try and get this minority group to attend school. I'm speaking about the taxi thing not a limo.
It's similar to homework groups that are ran by community groups, uniform allowances, lunches/breakfasts in deis schools, books, etc.
I sort of get why the principal couldn't comment on another families circumstances.

Plumbthedepths

BBFAN wrote:

Can't even read that crap.

Why? it's in fairly understandable English.

[Deleted User]

BattleCorp wrote: »

Is traveller health and life expectancy not a result of their actions rather than them being denied their human rights?

Wrong question, with respect. Your question is a bit like asking 'are poor people poor because of circumstances, or because they are stupid?'. Neither answer is correct. A better question might be, 'are traveller children achieving optimal educational and life-expectation outcomes in their current living conditions?'. The answer to that is an unambiguous No, and it's all to do with upbringing.

most travellers appear to shun education

Any evidence for this? Or just something you invented on a whim?

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

That must be the same farm they send all the old, sick dogs to. I bet the f*ckin pony regretted it shortly after. How could anyone in their right mind sell an animal to a traveller.

I've always been amused when people expressed shock or disgust at our selling that pony to the travellers. That family had no plumbing, and about five kids in their van - but sell them a pony and, woah - the middle classes are clambering over their own outrage.

There is a certain segment of Irish society which places greater value on a bloody pony than they do on the life of a human child.

[Deleted User]

nobody is promised optimal outcomes in this world man.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

nobody is promised optimal outcomes in this world man.

Of course.

But there's a big difference in being unable to guarantee an optimal upbringing, and going out of your way (in fact, spending money) to deprive a child of that upbringing.

Just look at the homelessness crisis. We're spending more money to put families in temporary, chaotic accommodation than it would cost to provide them with a home.

freshpopcorn

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Of course.

But there's a big difference in being unable to guarantee an optimal upbringing, and going out of your way (in fact, spending money) to deprive a child of that upbringing.

Just look at the homelessness crisis. We're spending more money to put families in temporary, chaotic accommodation than it would cost to provide them with a home.

So, what do you think the government should do?
They've pumped loads of money in education in the last few decades. Kids get access to SNA, resource hours, get laptops/iPads when required, they are homework groups/clubs and in second level these are there to align with LCA and youth reach if the traditional leaving cert wasn't for you.
We've seen houses thrown back in the govemrents face in the last year because they weren't good enough.
They government are doing more than ever to help members of the travelling community yo get an education.
They even provide allounces for books and uniforms.
They only other options would be to pay people attend school or fine people harshly for non attendance.

[Deleted User]

freshpopcorn wrote: »

So, what do you think the government should do?

Don't be asking me such easy questions.

1) Provide halting sites which are capable of accommodating families -we have vast amounts of academic research publications describing how well children do, when surrounded by their families.

2) Fund homework clubs and other extra-mural student supports for travellers and other non-traditional CAO applicants.

None of this should cost more than about 30-45 million, it would make a phenomenal difference to our society, and yet most of our politicians show zero interest.

Kivaro

Righty-O.
You are going on "mute".

freshpopcorn

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Don't be asking me such easy questions.

1) Provide halting sites which are capable of accommodating families -we have vast amounts of academic research publications describing how well children do, when surrounded by their families.

2) Fund homework clubs and other extra-mural student supports for travellers and other non-traditional CAO applicants.

None of this should cost more than about 30-45 million, it would make a phenomenal difference to our society, and yet most of our politicians show zero interest.

1) They often do this but all this turning down houses/sites over horses has to be stopped. It's happened in Cork and Thurles.
2) They are loads of schools with homework clubs and external groups in place at the moment of course they could have more.
No issue with courses being provided. There's a large range of PLC courses at the moment. It's important tough that courses have some hope of getting you into employment.

deaddonkey15

Kivaro wrote: »

Righty-O.
You are going on "mute".

I haven't come across a mod that's so obviously on a wind-up in a thread before. His initial post calling other posters idiots didn't even get carded. Pointless engaging with someone like him.

corks finest

BBFAN wrote: »

corks finest wrote: »

You may laugh,be amazed ,or call me a liar,at Scoil an spioraid naoimh bishoptown, when my son attended, school provided( 3 years) 2 taxis to and from school to campsite off the straight road cork,this changed to a wait for it. LIMO ,excuse that it was cheaper as there were another few traveller kids needed to attend,( at the time I was traveling 13 miles each way,,I was bloody incensed- I questioned the vice head,now principal,( Brian Cuthbert- ex Cork football coach)and was told no comment,it was aired on Red FM who also couldn't get a comment from the school,I went with a video cam stood opposite the entrance to the site, captured every vehicle leaving and entering ,back to the school - still no joy,my point was I was driving a 11 ye old banger yet still made it to school,yet all the travellers vehicles were much newer than mine and they couldn't be bothered to bring their kids on the 10 m drive to school,,,,crazy stuff,this has now stopped AFAIK,100 percent true,pm me anyone who doesent believe me,,,,

Can't even read that crap.

Won't you mean,pm I'll give u a number,or better still contact red FM

normanoffside

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Don't be asking me such easy questions.

1) Provide halting sites which are capable of accommodating families -we have vast amounts of academic research publications describing how well children do, when surrounded by their families.

What does this even mean?
Are Traveller children not completely surrounded by their families and extended families already? Much more than any other group of society who tend to have working parents and tend not to live with their extended family as neighbours.

According to your own point, Traveller kids should be the highest achievers in Ireland.

Jerichoholic

normanoffside wrote: »

What does this even mean?
Are Traveller children not completely surrounded by their families and extended families already? Much more than any other group of society who tend to have working parents and tend not to live with their extended family as neighbours.

According to your own point, Traveller kids should be the highest achievers in Ireland.

They are taught how to steal and scam to the highest possible level.

[Deleted User]

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I doubt that Margaret Cash makes no contribution to the Government, I assume she pays up to 23% VAT on items that she purchases.

Ri_Nollaig

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Don't be asking me such easy questions.

1) Provide halting sites which are capable of accommodating families -we have vast amounts of academic research publications describing how well children do, when surrounded by their families.

2) Fund homework clubs and other extra-mural student supports for travellers and other non-traditional CAO applicants.

None of this should cost more than about 30-45 million, it would make a phenomenal difference to our society, and yet most of our politicians show zero interest.

Regarding 1)
They are given housing/halting sites for their families. That is a house and space for their caravans. What happens? They ask for more!
This is the problem. The vast majority of people are not racist against Travellers but they can definitely see that not only do they get special treatment they come asking for more.

There as been numerous cases of them being given new houses, they not only ruin but they then go asking the council to repair/clean them up!

Don't let it be forgotten that it was the houses in Thurles that Peter Casey initially commented on that started that entire reaction.

Wheeliebin30

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Of course.

But there's a big difference in being unable to guarantee an optimal upbringing, and going out of your way (in fact, spending money) to deprive a child of that upbringing.

Just look at the homelessness crisis. We're spending more money to put families in temporary, chaotic accommodation than it would cost to provide them with a home.

No we’re not, the government are spending 5 billion this year on housing.

Emergency accommodation is a drop in the ocean compared to that.

At least state wine facts instead of nonsense.

dermo888

ShaneC93 wrote: »

That's what a lenient court system results in, they don't care ffor or respect the Gardai or the Justice system because they have no reason to fear - do any crime short of murder, have 100s of convictions and you're still looking at a fully suspended sentence.

Why fix a gift that keeps on giving? They could have come down HARD like a tonne of bricks on their nonsense a long time ago, and maybe that day will come. But the Gardai get overtime, the Barristers get guaranteed highly paid work, the Welfare Departments get to make recommendations, and the Judiciary carry on.

We'll make report after report after report and nothing gets done and nothing will change, and anyone who does even try implement change gets called a Fascist.