dermo888 wrote: » I'm of the opinion Margaret Cash is quite possibly the best thing the 'Alt Right' and potential racists have seen in over a decade. Almost immediately they can hold her up as a shining example, and this will be used/abused to denigrate and belittle Welfare recipients, Direct Provision claimants, Housing Assistance claimants and the whole ethos and essence of the Welfare State system. Its true that the Travelling Community DO experience discrimination and have problems. Its down to them to try and solve it, but they can't do it alone. They've to be 'guided' in a sense to a path that is respectful of societal norms, that hard work has just rewards, gains respect in the eyes of your peers and the community as a whole. But thats going to take time, and for many - the time was yesterday, ten years ago, twenty years ago, and sadly - not much has changed. The same problems are still there, the poverty, the alcoholism, the violence, the general disregard for the rule of law. The abject criminality. Frankly - people's patience ran out, and ran out a long time ago. We tried kindness, love, tolerance, and it has'nt got us very far. Some of the most heinous nasty crude racist right wing views are held against these fellow citizens of Ireland. I can't repeat them here. I don't want to. They sicken me to the core. I would'nt permit such views to be espoused in front of me about Jews or Homosexuals, so I can't allow it for Travellers either, even if my experiences with Travellers has'nt always been positive or enriching. And so, we'll go around in circles. The failure is generational, and will be repeated. What chance do her children have? She's doing her best to be a good mother, but its only a matter of time before those children end up repeating the same mistakes. Thats less than two decades away, and the Ireland of that time won't be so tolerant or accepting of nonsense like that.
dermo888 wrote: » There are parts of Dublin such as Tyrellstown where the anti social elements should be kept, and the whole place put under martial law, curfews and we can lease these out to the wealthier classes from Britain for example, so they can go hunting. Its a win win scenario. The state saves money on prisons, on law enforcement, on welfare payments, and.......
Mad_maxx wrote: » A multi decade fresh strategy is needed to deal with the traveller issue but liberals must be excluded from any input, they completely dictated policy this past three decades and it has been an abject failure.
tuxy wrote: » Are these posts by the same person?
dermo888 wrote: » Jesus H Christ, you don't 'get' satire.
Paddy Cow wrote: » 1 Enforce the rule that all children must attending full time education until at least age 16.
iguana wrote: » The problem that appears common in the travelling community is that children are initially registered at a school but taken out after very few years. They are not then registered as home educated and it's rare that it's checked on whether the certain minimum education is being provided. To be very honest, I just don't think it would be possible for Tusla assessors to be able to monitor that effectively and would potentially put individual staff into very uncomfortable/dangerous positions. I do wonder if the best chance traveller children have for a successful education is for the state to provide specifically tailored schools, with mainly outdoor practical learning, responsible animal husbandry, lots of free-play, etc that keep the children engaged and really wanting to keep attending. I know people baulk at the idea of a small section of society being given special treatment but specialised schools that could, over time, make a real difference to the outlook of the community as a whole. And could create real change that positively effects everyone long-term.
tuxy wrote: » Margaret had some of her children in a charity summer camp last summer and they were expelled after 2 weeks. I don't think it was traveller only but it was for disadvantaged children. Margaret though it was hilarious when they came home and had to tell her they were not allowed to go back.
iguana wrote: The problem that appears common in the travelling community is that children are initially registered at a school but taken out after very few years. They are not then registered as home educated and it's rare that it's checked on whether the certain minimum education is being provided. To be very honest, I just don't think it would be possible for Tusla assessors to be able to monitor that effectively and would potentially put individual staff into very uncomfortable/dangerous positions. I do wonder if the best chance traveller children have for a successful education is for the state to provide specifically tailored schools, with mainly outdoor practical learning, responsible animal husbandry, lots of free-play, etc that keep the children engaged and really wanting to keep attending. I know people baulk at the idea of a small section of society being given special treatment but specialised schools that could, over time, make a real difference to the outlook of the community as a whole. And could create real change that positively effects everyone long-term.
Plumbthedepths wrote: » Here's a very simple solution to attendance up to the age of 16. Link Child benefit payment to school attendance. Not in school? Soz no money. Simple.
Gravelly wrote: Dats decrimation agin the travellers, Joe, shoor they knows we do be learnin de childer at home so dey do.
Gravelly wrote: » Wasn't there a traveller-specific school in Coolock? AFAIK attendance was close to non-existent and it was closed down a couple of years ago.
Plumbthedepths wrote: » Apply it to every child of school going age, regardless of background. Sorted.
iguana wrote: » I don't honestly know, it's not something I've done any real research into. But I do think it's something that may be successful if it was planned over the very long-term. Lots of small schools that follow a more outdoor/Finnish model with a degree of tailoring to the travelling community, specifically with regard to proper care of animals. One that the children actually really, really enjoyed attending to the point that they would not be happy to be pulled out of early. So that even if the first generation of pupils were only in attendance for a few years, when they are parents their positive experience of school would make them less inclined to pull their own children out as early. I doubt it could ever happen as the expense compared to what would be paltry seeming results for the first decade or so would mean that any such project wouldn't last. But as things are now, those kids have so little chance of living truly improved lives or being able to improve things for their own children when they have them. It will take something massive and innovative to make a real positive, lasting change for them.
Gravelly wrote: » Perhaps it's time that this country seriously looked at taking children away from parents who can't or won't bring them up within the law.
dermo888 wrote: » We tried that before. They were called 'Industrial Schools'. As far as I'm aware, it did'nt work.
iguana wrote: That's not too far off the situation we have now. Child benefit sends forms to parents when their children are preschool age and again at school age asking for details of their child's preschool/nursery and school (or proof of registration as home educated). If you don't write back with details, payment stops. I don't know what happens in later years, if a child is registered with a school they are pulled from.
mikhail wrote: » I've said it before, and I'll say it again, but we have a crisis in our education system in this country. The number of people who couldn't recognise sarcasm if it were labelled in neon pink is staggering.
Paddy Cow wrote: in case the girls start interacting with settled boys or become influenced by settled kids in general. Keeping girls uneducated and marrying them off as child brides is not a culture that should be protected.
iguana wrote: » The problem that appears common in the travelling community is that children are initially registered at a school but taken out after very few years. They are not then registered as home educated and it's rare that it's checked on whether the certain minimum education is being provided. To be very honest, I just don't think it would be possible for Tusla assessors to be able to monitor that effectively and would potentially put individual staff into very uncomfortable/dangerous positions.
tuxy wrote: » Anyone interested in reading the first PHD thesis by an Irish traveller?https://ulir.ul.ie/bitstream/handle/10344/7535/Joyce_2018_Minceirs.pdf
SSr0 wrote: » I couldn't get past the introduction, absolute nonsense- "The virulent racism which we Travellers experience in Ireland is well documented (see McVeigh 2007 and 2012, Black 2005 and Hopkins 2007a and 2007b). Focusing on young Travellers, this thesis reveals that the effects of racism and discrimination on our lives extends to how urban space is experienced and to restrictions on our movement through and use of both public and commercial space. Through original empirical research, I identify the racialised boundaries which restrict our ability to activate our right to the city, and I reveal their character as socially constructed, policed and governed. My research reveals ways in which the majority culture and the State produce space as exclusionary for us."
