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Child Item

Calls for Graham Linehan to be removed from Prime Debate on transgender issues!

freshpopcorn

Prime Time are airing a special about transgender issues on Tuesday night at 21:35. I believe it mainly involves young people but will also show older people who have transitioned.
Graham Linehan is due to appear on this but a petition has being started to have him removed. There was an article on the matter on an Irish newspaper website but it has being removed.
Where do people stand on this matter?

Personally I can see both sides on the matter when it comes to kids/teenagers transitioning and how it may effect them in the long term since it's such a big change to make but I'm no expert on the matter.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/opposition-to-father-ted-creator-graham-linehan-being-on-tv-transgender-debate-skz8mp2rb

https://www.change.org/p/donogh-diamond-rte-to-remove-graham-linehan-piece-from-upcoming-prime-time-show-on-transgender-issues

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ironwalk

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

You seem to be trying very hard to make up scenarios just so you can oppose them. There is a word for that.

Do I?
Making up scenarios?
Quick Google search....

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/peeping-tom-pervert-secretly-filmed-7897266

More where that came from.

In any case, let's not get diverted down side alleys. Graham Linehan seems to be one of the few men who is prepared to see how trans rights can be manipulated by abusive men.

Franz Von Peppercorn

seamus wrote: »

Yes. He is unwilling to entertain any discussion on it unless it meets with his opinion, or even show respect to anyone else in such a discussion.

He's probably gone off the rails tbh. In a discussion where he insists that trans is a mental illness, Linehan probably needs psychiatric help of his own. It's an obsession for him at this stage.

I would say he probably represents the majority female position, but maybe not the position of all woke males.

In any case he, as far as I remember, got into this when some transwoman in Canada started to demand that asian beauty parlours wax her balls. Graham thought that that was a bit much.

I agree that he's a bit aggressive on twitter, its surprising to see someone so doctrinaire left take this stance, he is to be applauded for actually having some thoughts outside his group think.

Franz Von Peppercorn

VeryTerry wrote: »

Spends all his time arguing with no marks on Twitter to the point where the cops are getting involved. That's some seriously sad behavior.

the fact that the police are involved is more worrying.

ohnonotgmail

ironwalk wrote: »

Most women's dressing rooms have cubicles. Short curtains, gaps under partitions, open topped.

My point is, do you want your teenager undressing in a confined space with a bloke with a phone?

Yes/no?

Or, if that doesn't bother you; what about when she is out and a bloke is harassing her in the pub. She goes to the bathroom to get away from him.....ooops, now John is Jane and security can't say anything.

You seem to be trying very hard to make up scenarios just so you can oppose them. There is a word for that.

seamus

ironwalk wrote: »

Does he have an "anti-trans bias"?

Yes. He is unwilling to entertain any discussion on it unless it meets with his opinion, or even show respect to anyone else in such a discussion.

He's probably gone off the rails tbh. In a discussion where he insists that trans is a mental illness, Linehan probably needs psychiatric help of his own. It's an obsession for him at this stage.

How Soon Is Now

seamus wrote: »

You mean when it was all behind closed doors and priests fiddled with kids, women got battered, gay people feared for their lives and anyone who displayed any kind of "non-Christian" sentiment was ostracised by the media?

Yeah, great craic that was.

I'm wide open to discussion that things may have swung a little too wildly the other way, but calls to not include a comedy writer with a stated anti-trans bias on a discussion about trans issues, is not trying to silence anyone.

We need experts to discuss social matters. Not outrage merchants and religious zealots.

Bringing Graham Linehan on for this just goes to show that the "Prime Time" which was once RTE's best effort at a dignified current affairs programme, is going down the path of doing whatever is necessary to get the most viewers. It has no interest in honest journalism.

I HATE the direction Ireland has went in over the last few years i ****ing hate it.

The crap with the Catholic church is a different issue if your abusing people in that manner then you deserve whatever comes to you!

Gay people in general ive no issue with ive proven that enough times threw out my life!

The other crowd who this thread is about well..... There is nothing i could say about them anywhere that would be greeted positively so ya.

brevity

Is Lenihan’s issue with trans people or just with parents treating their supposed transgender children?

ironwalk

seamus wrote: »

You mean when it was all behind closed doors and priests fiddled with kids, women got battered, gay people feared for their lives and anyone who displayed any kind of "non-Christian" sentiment was ostracised by the media?

Yeah, great craic that was.

I'm wide open to discussion that things may have swung a little too wildly the other way, but calls to not include a comedy writer with a stated anti-trans bias on a discussion about trans issues, is not trying to silence anyone.

We need experts to discuss social matters. Not outrage merchants and religious zealots.

Bringing Graham Linehan on for this just goes to show that the "Prime Time" which was once RTE's best effort at a dignified current affairs programme, is going down the path of doing whatever is necessary to get the most viewers. It has no interest in honest journalism.

Does he have an "anti-trans bias"?

cian68

Stuff like having "Zey/Zose/Zem" in his twitter profile is just him being quite nasty and belittling trans people. Fair enough wanting to have a conversation about how children are dealt with but I still think he's a prick.

[quote="How Soon Is
Now;109200226"]Remember the good old days in Ireland when no one knew or talked about any of this kinda ****e? That was nice....[/quote]

I'm not sure how nice it was for trans people.

seamus

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Remember the good old days in Ireland when no one knew or talked about any of this kinda ****e? That was nice....

You mean when it was all behind closed doors and priests fiddled with kids, women got battered, gay people feared for their lives and anyone who displayed any kind of "non-Christian" sentiment was ostracised by the media?

Yeah, great craic that was.

I'm wide open to discussion that things may have swung a little too wildly the other way, but calls to not include a comedy writer with a stated anti-trans bias on a discussion about trans issues, is not trying to silence anyone.

We need experts to discuss social matters. Not outrage merchants and religious zealots.

Bringing Graham Linehan on for this just goes to show that the "Prime Time" which was once RTE's best effort at a dignified current affairs programme, is going down the path of doing whatever is necessary to get the most viewers. It has no interest in honest journalism.

ironwalk

biko wrote: »

When only one side gets to air their views on TV it's not a democratic debate, it's a one-sided, biased monologue.

That said, I have no clue what a comedian should be doing in that debate, there should be experts and people with facts instead on sound-byters

He's got involved in the debate (as far as I can see, can't speak for the man, know him only from Fr Ted, or the IT crowd) because he's a husband and father of daughters.
And he can see the need to safeguard women, against the type of man who can hijack trans issues for his own perversity.
Very few men are talking about this, because, ultimately it doesn't affect them.
But it affects all women.

This is not about hating on trans people... it's about maintaining the protections for women.

padd b1975

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

I am bemused by the fact being brought up on twitter by people complaining about him that he is non-resident.

The same folks were delighted with the "home to vote" campaign during the last referendum.

Good old hypocrisy.

How Soon Is Now

piplip87 wrote: »

It's a debate. One side of the debate is petitioning to get opposing side removed from the debate ? Why ?

Cause only one side of most debates matter on Rte the ultra Liberal one.

piplip87

It's a debate. One side of the debate is petitioning to get opposing side removed from the debate ? Why ?

I work in social media and I see a lot of teenagers accounts every single day. Some suicidal themed ones and the by line is always the same. *sexuality* depressed self diagnosed.

It seems to be in the in thing at the moment for teenagers to identify as something that's not heterosexual. It's also the thing to have a mental illness associated with this gender.

I would say 90% of these illnesses are made up and are 99% of genders.

There is two genders. Male and Female. If you identify as the other one that's fine two but there is no need for 47 different genders.

Sexuality is the same. There's 4 Straight, gay and BI. and Asexual That covers everything.

This demi sexual, pansexual crap is confusing kids.so much some.of them will self harm etc. Just because you feel different doesn't mean you have to make up a new gender

biko

When only one side gets to air their views on TV it's not a democratic debate, it's a one-sided, biased monologue*

That said, I have no clue what a comedian should be doing in that debate, there should be experts and people with facts instead on sound-byters
Also, I am for gender correction where needed - in adults.

* this is how they want it. Only their side gets to speak, and then they can say "sure, we all agreed this is best".

jam_mac_jam

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I dont understand your dressing room argument at all. Are womens changing rooms communal? Do they not have separate cubicles like they do in mens changing rooms?

Some are communal yes. I don't think it would bother me but I can imagine some people being uncomfortable with it. I would be more uncomfortable in the likes of a gym changing room where I might be naked. Would I want somebody who looked like a man there even if they consider themselves as a woman. Does that make me a trans phobic? probably. Does that mean I hate them. No.

thebaz

How can you have a debate without hearing arguments from both sides ??

But no, here the outraged just want to hear it from one side

Mad_maxx

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Yep, it’s been seen in numerous “debates” of late on RTÉ shows like Prime Time - the unhinged individual makes the loony toons look moderate by comparison. I’d have loved to see a “debate” on this issue between Ruth Coppinger and Linehan.

Actuality, no. Now I think about it I wouldn’t :pac:

I'd rather see roe mc dermot.

Every second word out of that one's mouth is "trans"

ironwalk

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I dont understand your dressing room argument at all. Are womens changing rooms communal? Do they not have separate cubicles like they do in mens changing rooms?

Most women's dressing rooms have cubicles. Short curtains, gaps under partitions, open topped.

My point is, do you want your teenager undressing in a confined space with a bloke with a phone?

Yes/no?

Or, if that doesn't bother you; what about when she is out and a bloke is harassing her in the pub. She goes to the bathroom to get away from him.....ooops, now John is Jane and security can't say anything.

ohnonotgmail

ironwalk wrote: »

I don't think GL sets himself up as an expert at all.
What I take from it is that he questions where the line is between the rights of people who identify as being a trans woman, and the rights of women.

For instance, if you've a teenage daughter, do you want her going shopping on a Saturday, into the dressing room in Penneys and any fella who wants to, can say that he's a woman, and in he goes after her?

Do you want your granny having personal care on a hospital ward with a bloke who still has a beard and all his bits, but who decides to identify as a woman for a few days a week?

And don't say "that'll never happen". It mightn't have happened here, yet, but it has in other countries.

I've no problem with an adult man dressing and presenting in any way that he wants...off you go. But as soon as s/he wants to step on my toes or those of my daughter, then I'm going to draw a line.

So, the issue isn't about trans rights, it's about holding the rights of women in balance.

I dont understand your dressing room argument at all. Are womens changing rooms communal? Do they not have separate cubicles like they do in mens changing rooms?

How Soon Is Now

Remember the good old days in Ireland when no one knew or talked about any of this kinda ****e? That was nice....

ironwalk

I don't think GL sets himself up as an expert at all.
What I take from it is that he questions where the line is between the rights of people who identify as being a trans woman, and the rights of women.

For instance, if you've a teenage daughter, do you want her going shopping on a Saturday, into the dressing room in Penneys and any fella who wants to, can say that he's a woman, and in he goes after her?

Do you want your granny having personal care on a hospital ward with a bloke who still has a beard and all his bits, but who decides to identify as a woman for a few days a week?

And don't say "that'll never happen". It mightn't have happened here, yet, but it has in other countries.

I've no problem with an adult man dressing and presenting in any way that he wants...off you go. But as soon as s/he wants to step on my toes or those of my daughter, then I'm going to draw a line.

So, the issue isn't about trans rights, it's about holding the rights of women in balance.

super_furry

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

He is neither, he is just very opinionated. That seems to be enough these days.

It's lousy. It seems that if someone shouts and screams loudly enough against something and draws enough attention to themselves, they're handed a career as a professional agitator. It's how you end up with people like Katie Hopkins.

ohnonotgmail

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

I dont think he is an expert at all. It'd be like me going on to explain being a woman.

(I'm a 40 year old man)

I reckon you would do a much job explaining women than Linehan would explaining trans issues.

[Deleted User]

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

He is neither, he is just very opinionated. That seems to be enough these days.

I dont think he is an expert at all. It'd be like me going on to explain being a woman.

(I'm a 40 year old man)

ohnonotgmail

Calhoun wrote: »

Not quite sure how to take this one, I am not sure exactly how Graham is an expert or a voice of the issue but I don't really know too much about him.

At the same time they do need an opposing voice on teh debate it cannot be all one way.

Like it or not trans people are not going to have it as easy as other members of their community because of advocacy of treatment on young kids and the growing trend to remove kids from parents.

He is neither, he is just very opinionated. That seems to be enough these days.

jam_mac_jam

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Um, just no. 16 year olds don't have the capacity to make that choice and for good reason. Gender dysphoria is a thing obviously, if they still feel that way as an adult then fair enough but a teenager or younger, no they don't have the capacity to make that choice. Just how we wouldn't let a 16 year old get a vasectomy or a hysterectomy or any other life altering elective surgery.

Also please can the people saying he "hates" transgender people give examples of this hate. As far as I can see calling out people who advocate surgery on children or people who change names to avoid detection is the extent of it and that's not hate?

If you question anything about the current transgender position then you hate them. You are literally not permitted to discuss anything.

[Deleted User]

I am bemused by the fact being brought up on twitter by people complaining about him that he is non-resident.

The same folks were delighted with the "home to vote" campaign during the last referendum.

Sir Oxman

If anything, he's anti 'stifling of the debate unless you agree with every single thing that the trans orthodoxy dictates'
Which is ironic considering the petition to have him stifled.

Anyhow, I'm sure the extremis of trans orthodoxy will implode very shortly all on it's own.

Calhoun

Not quite sure how to take this one, I am not sure exactly how Graham is an expert or a voice of the issue but I don't really know too much about him.

At the same time they do need an opposing voice on teh debate it cannot be all one way.

Like it or not trans people are not going to have it as easy as other members of their community because of advocacy of treatment on young kids and the growing trend to remove kids from parents.