Leroy42 wrote: » After what has come out this week in terms of the US, which mirrors what Ireland and plenty of other countries, how can anyone justify a continued support for this organisation? Is it simply because they don't care? They have convinced themselves that its totally different now? That their own faith is such that stepping away from the CC would give them no basis? I really don't understand it. Belief in God and Jesus does not need the CC. One can continue to have faith, to read the bible, to live in the way of Jesus, without continued support for such an organisation. What message do these people think they are sending both to the church and to the wider world by their attending the event? Or are they of the view that that doesn't matter once they get to take part? It is really odd to see that there is still so many people willing to support this. What would it actually take for them to turn their backs on the CC? I cannot imagine how much worse it needs to get.
AudreyHepburn wrote: » And Pope Francis seems to me a progressive and forward thinking man more so that any of his predecessors.
AudreyHepburn wrote: » I think the problem here is that people either can’t or won’t separate the religion from the institution. I am going to the park next week and I have no shame in saying I’m looking forward to it. But here’s the thing - I’m not going because I support the church or because I believe that child abuse ok - quite the contrary, I think it’s abhorrent and anyone who does it deserves castration without anesthesia. It’s not because I believe it’s shameful to be an unmarried mother- I’m the daughter of the one and I’m proud to be her daughter. It’s not because I think gay people are evil- my younger brother is gay and I have zero problem with it. I think anyone that does needs to take a good hard look at themselves. So why then am I going? Because my faith has given my comfort and strength at different times in my life and I have seen the comfort it has given others - the central teaching of love and acceptance are what matter to me. And Pope Francis seems to me a progressive and forward thinking man more so that any of his predecessors. I also like the idea of being able to look back in years to come and say I was there. Instead of jumping to conclusions about people’s motivations in going to the park maybe stop and consider that instead of being one big homogeneous group we are a individuals with different ideas and beliefs and we don’t all have the same motives. Also consider that not everyone supports the institution but that the religion itself is what’s driving them.
Fighting Tao wrote: » You are not separating religion from the institution. You are attending due to your faith to an event organised by the institution. That is certainly not separating the two and is supporting the institution. Maybe your comment "I also like the idea of being able to look back in years to come and say I was there" really gives away your reason. Fear of missing out. Irish people have a huge tendency to go to things for fear of missing out and being able to say "I was there". People don't need to see the pope say mass or even go to church to practice their faith. It can be done anywhere.
P_1 wrote: » To be fair I can see the appeal. Look at it this way. You can cycle the Sally Gap whenever you want to. Can you say the same about Alpe d'Huez?
AudreyHepburn wrote: » I never said I needed the Pope for anything and I’d appreciate it if you didn’t try to tell me what my motives are - you have no idea. The Pope represents both the organization and faith but they are two separate things - you can believe in Christ without subscribing to the outdated organization that is the church. My faith in my religion is was motivats me not any faith in the church as an organization.
Fighting Tao wrote: » They are two separate things. We agree on that. However, attending an event organised by the institution/organisation is supporting them. Faith can be practiced anywhere.
Fighting Tao wrote: » I can't because I'd never make it up Alpe d'Heuz. No point in even trying. Sally Gap is testing enough!
AudreyHepburn wrote: » You see this is why I don’t like admitting my faith to people nowadays - who do you think you are to assume that because I’m choosing to go up the park next week I must be ok with the terrible things the church have done. I despise the church and how it has corrupted the faith and made it a near crime to be Catholic. I’m going to the park because of my personal faith not the organization that has twisted and corrupted it.
P_1 wrote: » Do what gives you strength. Fcuk what other people think
AudreyHepburn wrote: » Easier said than done when my faith means people have the right to assume I’m a child abuse supporting homophobe who looks down on unwed mothers and thinks covering up the most heinous of crimes is ok.
martyc5674 wrote: » No one thinks you are that. But they think you support an organisation that’s ok with that, and may frown upon you for supporting them- that’s all.
Bredabe wrote: » A new form of protest maybe. A posting on a local fb page giving out about the 'Pride Parade' yes, 'They should be ashamed having a parade of them types and the pope only 90 miles away next week'
AudreyHepburn wrote: » P_1 wrote: » Do what gives you strength. Fcuk what other people think Easier said than done when my faith means people have the right to assume I’m a child abuse supporting homophobe who looks down on unwed mothers and thinks covering up the most heinous of crimes is ok.
Fighting Tao wrote: » You are not separating religion from the institution. You are attending due to your faith to an event organised by the institution. That is certainly not separating the two and is supporting the institution. They will count you as a loyal member coming out to see the leader. Maybe your comment "I also like the idea of being able to look back in years to come and say I was there" really gives away your reason. Fear of missing out. Irish people have a huge tendency to go to things for fear of missing out and being able to say "I was there". People don't need to see the pope say mass or even go to church to practice their faith. It can be done anywhere.
Graces7 wrote: » every mass is "organised" by the church and Sunday mass IS obligatory for practising catholics.
Graces7 wrote: » sheerly pedantic is your post with no understanding of the issues. by any standards this is an important faith event and an important state event. The two are inextricably intertwined,, and every mass is "organised" by the church and Sunday mass IS obligatory for practising catholics. as is every act of faith.
AudreyHepburn wrote: » martyc5674 wrote: » No one thinks you are that. But they think you support an organisation that’s ok with that, and may frown upon you for supporting them- that’s all. Oh well that’s ok then. I don’t support the organization, I support the faith and the good people who dedicate their lives to it. I do not support the monsters who used the faith for their own cruel purposes or those who protected them. I don’t see what’s wrong with that?
Sycamore Tree wrote: » Have you ever done anything to try and fix the Roman organisation?
Deleted User wrote: » bollix it’s not a protest- in every national newspaper I’ve read this weekend it’s called a protest- it’s called a protest in this thread- so why are you fudging it now?
