Jenneke87 wrote: » I had to have all three of my pregnancies terminated, or " the babies killed" as some of you like to call it. Only that is the reason I'm currently alive. I'm grateful that in my home country there is abortion on demand so that women, when they need to, can safely terminate. I believe that some pro-lifers massively misunderstand how difficult it is to make that decision. We don't go in there with a smile on our faces in anticipation of the free tea and cookies will get after the procedure. In my country murder will get you 25 years. If you " kill" at six weeks gestation the fetus is the size of a grain of rice, yet some of you want to put the two on equal footing, it's just bizarre..To become completely without rights just because you can get pregnant is truly a scary idea and one, I bet that wouldn't even be discussed if men could get pregnant. I also wonder if those that are pro-life and claim that poverty of lack of finances to properly raise is not a reason to abort a child would financially support a woman so she can keep it, but we all know the answer..Suddenly the child is no longer their business.. Three days ago, here, a 19 year old girl gave birth, put the baby in a plastic bag and left it to die on the balcony, which the baby did. I was horrified, first of all for the baby but also because, if she truly did not want the baby, she could have safely terminated the pregnancy. I'm sure the baby was now far more aware of it's impending death than it would have been had she terminated. A pregnancy and it's continuation is between the woman, her partner if still on scene and her GP and no-one else.
kumate_champ07 wrote: » My apologies for the toxic atmosphere here that I have contributed to, your post got lost in the storm and its actually the most relevant post I have seen in this thread, especially this part:"A pregnancy and it's continuation is between the woman, her partner if still on scene and her GP and no-one else." It's difficult to discuss this topic, and I can only imagine how difficult it might be if you've actually experienced it. I'm only trying to explain my own views and its been difficult to stay on topic. Language has limitations and can be misunderstood sometimes, some words have different meanings attached to them If my partner was pregnant and there was a risk to her life its a no brainer, she should terminate the pregnancy, I dont even know why my own opinion would matter in that situation. But it's nice to hear that you value your partners opinion. I suppose if its someone you already have a strong relationship with , the discussion is more likely to take place, but if its a pregnancy outside of a relationship it's going to be more complicated, but there should be some rights for the man, I dont know how much, but the father is important. I would hope that in any pregnancy situation that I would have a voice when it comes to a lifeform that has 50% of my genetic makeup. There is too much confusion, from all sides, I havent even made my own mind up yet. It's bigger than 'repeal the 8th', that's just a key unlocking a door, but what will be behind the door? Nobody should ever have died on Irish soil because of their pregnancy with the current legislation thats in place, If anyone can correct me on that please do, if I'm wrong I'd like to be educated
bubblypop wrote: » it has been discussed on this thread, TBH, I think everyone acknowledges that in a perfect world, both the mother & father would make a joint decision over an unwanted pregnancy. The biological truth is that, should the father want it to go ahead, he cannot force a woman to be pregnant, it is against her human rights. equally, should he not wish to proceed with a pregnancy, he cannot force a woman to abort. so, until such a time as there is an artificial womb created that allows for pregnancy to continue, should the woman not want to be pregnant, we have to deal with what we have. and basically, a living breathing human woman, should get precedence over a foetus.
kumate_champ07 wrote: » I have no problem with that, thats morally acceptable, it was the only option. I think euthanasia should be allowed, I would still call it killing, because thats the word used to describe when you end the life of an organism. people attach their own emotions to the word.
Smertrius wrote: » A woman should choose to have a baby or not by freedom saying no is against freedom.
end of the road wrote: » that's no problem. sometimes certain freedoms cannot be allowed for the good of society.
Bishop says 'absent fathers can be blamed for terminations' [..] Highlighting that a man is equally responsible for a pregnancy, he asked: "How often is the woman abandoned with her pregnancy, when the man, the child's father, is unwilling to accept responsibility for it?"
Smertrius wrote: » end of the road wrote: » that's no problem. sometimes certain freedoms cannot be allowed for the good of society. abortion is legal in uk and usa, abortion should legal here in ireland
ted1 wrote: » If your life was at risk you could have had the abortions here under r the 2013 act
SusieBlue wrote: » I'm getting treatment for abnormal cell changes in my cervix to stop them from developing into cervical cancer. Before each appointment I have to do a pregnancy test, and if it comes back positive, they won't help me. They won't treat me. They will make me gamble my life and hope that the cells haven't progressed to cancer by the time I give birth in 9 months. I'm only 27. This is unacceptable. I shouldn't have to be dying to avail of medical treatment. Can you imagine going into hospital, as a man, with a minor infection, and them sitting you on a chair and telling you they'll start treating you when the situation becomes critical and you're dying? Would you think thats ok?
Smertrius wrote: » people say Ireland freedom country we have no freedom to have abortions,
SusieBlue wrote: » I'm getting treatment for abnormal cell changes in my cervix to stop them from developing into cervical cancer. Before each appointment I have to do a pregnancy test, and if it comes back positive, they won't help me. They won't treat me. They will make me gamble my life and hope that the cells haven't progressed to cancer by the time I give birth in 9 months. I shouldn't have to be dying to avail of medical treatment.
'I was pregnant when I was told I had cervical cancer' - mum-of-one (39) After struggling to conceive Katrzyna was overjoyed when she discovered she was pregnant only to be shocked by bad news soon after... The 39-year-old - who lives with her partner Peter and baby girl Melanie, now one-year-old, in Whitehall, Dublin - explains why she will vaccinate her daughter when the time comes and is encouraging other parents to do the same. "I was experiencing bleeding so I went to my GP and I had a smear test. I was referred for an ultrasound and that's when the doctor told me I was pregnant. I was thrilled because I thought I was unable to have children as we had been trying for some time. "I was eight weeks pregnant when the results from the smear came back and I was told I had severe dysplasia. I was referred to the colposcopy clinic. At that time, I still thought it was related to the pregnancy, so I wasn't worried. "By the time the baby's 12 week scan came around, I had completely forgotten about the smear test. Myself and my partner Peter were told that there was a 50pc chance that the baby could have a genetic condition or heart disease, so we were dealing with that." Reeling from the news that her baby could be born with major health concerns, the business woman, who is originally from Poland, was dealt another devastating blow when it was confirmed that she had cancer. "When I went to the colposcopy clinic, the first question the doctor asked when he checked my cervix was 'How many children do you have already?' I said, 'It's my first baby'. I knew from his reaction it wasn't good news. "I had a biopsy and three days later, I had the results. I was told that I had cancer and that it was locally advanced. "I was sent for an MRI so they could see what stage cancer I had. That was the most difficult part, that really was the deciding factor in how the team would proceed." Unsure whether she could continue the pregnancy and advance with treatment, the doting mum explains, "From the beginning, I said that if there was any chance for both of us, I would take the chance and that's what I did. "When the results came back, I had stage 2B cervical cancer which meant that I needed radiotherapy, but that was impossible because I was pregnant so my team decided chemotherapy would be the best option, but it would only contain the cancer. "In the midst of all this we found out that the baby didn't have any genetic problems, but her heart was not developing properly. She had Hypoplastic Right Heart Syndrome, so the right ventricle was smaller than it should be. It was just another complication on top of the cancer. "My doctors contacted hospitals around the world to see if they had any similar cases - the goal was to start on a chemo that would cause the least amount of damage to the baby." Delaying radiotherapy treatment until after her pregnancy, Katrzyna received chemotherapy treatment from the 20th week of her pregnancy until baby Melanie was born on September 28 last year. "I underwent a C-section and a hysterectomy at the same time. The doctors wanted to put me under anaesthetic but I wanted to hold Melanie. "They understood, so they did the epidural first. I got to see her and hold her and kiss her and then she was transported to the Rotunda Hospital. "When Melanie was two-months-old, I started radiotherapy and began more chemotherapy. "It was hard because she was so small and I hated leaving her, but Peter and his mum were amazing. I could not have done it without them. Peter was my rock throughout it all. "I finished the whole treatment in January it was an amazing moment. It was the hardest thing to go through, but Melanie is really beautiful. She really is amazing and I am so grateful she is healthy and happy. "The only problem she has is a hearing loss, she is not deaf but she does not hear 100pc so she has small hearing aids. We thought she would need open heart surgery when she was born, but her heart repaired itself while I was pregnant and she was born with a hole in her heart, but that healed when she was six-months-old."
“To the Irish public, As former Chairs of the Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, we have been horrified at some of the statements made by colleagues during this referendum campaign in relation to maternal care in Ireland. We are particularly appalled by the comments of Dr Rhona Mahony in the Together for Yes campaign video where she states “In Ireland today, we play medical roulette with women’s lives”, and those of Dr Peter Boylan in the same video where he claims the Eighth Amendment “makes it difficult for us to treat women with compassion and give them the proper care that they need”. These comments are simply not true and are nothing less than a serious misrepresentation of the Irish maternal health system. We call on them to withdraw these statements. Each of us has had extensive experience over around 40 years in the specialty of obstetrics and gynaecology. In addition, in our privileged position as Chairs of the Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, we have fought to improve the standards of care for mothers and their newborn babies. Ireland is a very safe country in which to be pregnant. The Eighth Amendment does not prevent Irish women receiving care of the highest possible standard. This is why our maternal death rate is so low. Recent Maternal Death Enquiry reports confirm that Ireland is one of the safest places in the world to be pregnant. Not one of our colleagues should ever be permitted to use the Eighth Amendment as an excuse for not treating a woman. Each one of us can stand over the care we have provided in our careers. Four of us who practised in this jurisdiction have carried out necessary surgery which resulted in termination of pregnancy in order to save and protect Irish women. We had no difficulty in so doing, and the Eighth Amendment did not prevent us from performing an ethical and medically indicated procedure. On May 25th, Irish people will be asked to vote on whether the right to life of an unborn baby should be withdrawn. If the answer is Yes, it is the stated intention of government to introduce legislation to enable ending the life of a perfectly healthy growing baby, in a perfectly healthy pregnant woman. That is a matter of conscience for each voter. What this referendum is not about, and what it has never been about, is maternal healthcare. That some campaigners have chosen to engage in a campaign to raise unnecessary fears for maternal health in the electorate is deeply regrettable. Yours sincerely, Prof John Bonnar MD FRCPI FRCOG FTCD, Former Chairman, Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists Dr Eamon McGuinness MA FRCPI FRCOG, Former Chairman, Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists Dr. Conor Carr MA FRCPI FRCOG, Former Chairman, Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists Dr James Clinch MD FRCOG, Former Chairman, Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists Dr Michael O’Hare MD FRCPI FRCOG, Former Chairman Institute of Obstetricians & Gynaecologists”
Outlaw Pete wrote: I don't think abortion rights for men are feasible or even workable. Personally I'm in favour of only therapeutic abortions being legal in society once a heartbeat can be found. I feel all elective abortions from that point on should be illegal. We had a good opportunity in 2013 with the '
Outlaw Pete wrote: » I appreciate that of course, and I see from Susie's other posts elsewhere that she has been more specific with regards the type of treatment she is receiving (Laser) but one has to wonder then why aren't we seeing more deaths and court cases from families since the 8th's inception if indeed it results in women not getting the medical treatment which is needed to the degree we are seeing being suggested on our airwaves.
OldNotWIse wrote: » But if she decides to keep it, she will force you to pay maintenance.
seamus wrote: » Vindictive mothers who spend their time punishing their child's father are few and far between.
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