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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

Sam Quentin

Strange.. I'm kinda relieved it's all over.

http://www.thejournal.ie/belfast-rape-trial-verdict-3928309-Mar2018/

Mod Note Keep this relevant to this thread and don't bring up others. ie the eighth amendment thread.

MOD NOTE By the way don't post anything from members on the jury that's appearing online.

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Sidebaro

Mr.H wrote:

So now you want to change the posts and make it about unreported victims?

You said rape victims. Rape victims encompasses all those who have been raped, not just the ones who have received help. So basically your poor wording or lack of understanding is where the confusion arose. I noticed you wrote 'Can be worse' than 'is worse' as you had originally stated, so you're learning. And nobody is accusing you of being a rapist, don't be so dramatic. Also, don't be goaded into spouting nonsense and if you are then at least make it a true reflection of what you believe rather than getting it wrong and then making it out like everyone else is the asshole.

[Deleted User]

wexie wrote: »

What is it they are actually protesting against though?

The outcome of the trial?

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Rape culture in Ireland although this was the U.K.

That’s stupid for sure. There was a lot of that kinda nonsense on twitter last night. The shamed to be Irish crew.

My own point of view is that this woman certainly believed she was raped, that consent wasn’t granted for all the activities. I don’t think it was just remorse.

That’s hard to prove though.

I've seen patriarchy, the "paygap", "rape culture", misogyny, the 8th amendment off the top of my head as things that are apparently relevant to this case.

They want to talk about "rape culture". Where were the protests about Rotherham, Newcastle, Rochdale, Derby, Oxford? Where's the protest outside Waterford's football matches when they have someone who gangraped a 14 year old playing for them?
Nowhere. Because the main movement has been hijacked by intersectionalists whose only target is straight white men. Thousands upon thousands of girls have been raped and at least a few murdered in the UK but these people say nothing because it's the evil white man and patriarchy (which only applies to white men) that are their target.
There were protests in the UK about the rape gangs though. It was white, working-class people mostly. I was among those who dismissed them as ignorant and probably racist. Turns out they were correct and truthful. Yet they're still dismissed because they haven't got the right accent nor genitals nor skin colour.

I wish people could stop conflating every bloody thing into their bloody agenda. The movement isn't as big as those within it think it is and if they keep pushing they should be ready for a big backlash. There have been warning shots but they still don't seem to get that telling (young) guys who have fewer qualifications, higher unemployment and lower earnings than women their age that they're the privileged ones ain't gonna wash.

Many show up for the virtue signalling parade in Dublin today?

Ginger83

retro:electro wrote: »

I must have missed the part where Harvey Weinstein had a trial?

Oh i'm sorry if you read it wrong but what he got tried for and what he got away with are 2 different things.

SAMTALK

C__MC wrote: »

Oh lord the taxi driver. Suddenly he’s more reliable then dara Florence who seen no distress. He seen her crying?The bleeding was from
The penetration of Jackson’s fingers. The lads stories were consistent throughout. They probably lied but they stuck to their story.Hers was bizzare, chopped and changed throughout. No rape!

Consistent lies are ok then ?

ShowMeTheCash

Mr.H wrote: »

Why should they have to prove she lied (which would be very difficult)?

They are not guilty therefore should be presumed innocent

Yes presumed but not proven.

strandroad

seamus wrote: »

I'm really torn about these protests.

It's reactionary stuff from people who are angry about what other people say on Twitter. In effect those behind the protests believe that the woman in the case has been raped and the guys have "gotten off". And that this is just another example of rape culture and toxic masculinity.

A friend of mine went to the protest. She is not normally an activist or anything so I was surprised. She says it's just out of futile rage and that when you read her (traumatised) vs theirs (crude) message transcripts just are just beside yourself and need to do something, anything so she went. So it might be reactionary stuff but it clearly resonates.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Cyrus wrote: »

it was obvious early on that there was no where near enough evidence for a rape conviction

hence the 3 hour deliberation

Have to agree with this. If there was evidence to support a rape conviction a Belfast based barrister would have taken the case instead of the pps having to fly someone in from London to prosecute the case.

Nermal

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Personally I don't believe in otherwise consent for sexual activities except in a long term relationship where both parties know each other well enough to accurately judge an otherwise consent.

Yes, perhaps we could have a form where you can mark on a checkbox in advance what you are up for, signed by both parties and witnesses. :rolleyes:

Franz Von Peppercorn

Adamocovic wrote: »

I've lost the will to even debate with them.

Like my only complaint seems to be the blame being sent towards Irish law. Maybe I'm being pedantic but come on. Why are people continuing to make this mistake. Our courts carry out these cases very differently, and even if people have problems with them, which there still is, this case has nothing to do with them.

I’m sympathetic to her, as my posts show but people who don’t realise that it’s a different legal system bug the hell out of me.

This has led to nonsense on twitter about Irish law, Catholicism etc from foreigners and more ridiculously Irish people.

Even on here. One reply to me was that the rugby team was all Ireland, so...

mayolady14

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I never said they should. This comment was in reply to someone who asked why it was taken to trial at all.

GreeBo

retro:electro wrote: »

Even if it was consensual- she didn’t ask or choose to be spoken about the next day in such a vile nature. “Spit roasted” “like a merry go round” “top shaggers”.. get fcuked.
If you think it’s okay to speak about women like that after you’ve been intimate with them then you need to have a good look at yourself. They may have been found not guilty but their general attitude towards her afterwards was disgusting and for that they should be ashamed

But you think its ok for her to text her friends and say the lads raped her?

Seems fair.

UnknownSpecies

begbysback wrote: »

Can't help but think if this was 4 lads from Tallaght then would the verdict be the same ??

It would have been.

Mr.H

Sidebaro wrote: »

You said rape victims. Rape victims encompasses all those who have been raped, not just the ones who have received help. So basically your poor wording or lack of understanding is where the confusion arose. I noticed you wrote 'Can be worse' than 'is worse' as you had originally stated, so you're learning. And nobody is accusing you of being a rapist, don't be so dramatic. Also, don't be goaded into spouting nonsense and if you are then at least make it a true reflection of what you believe rather than getting it wrong and then making it out like everyone else is the asshole.

So BlueWolf didnt lie about what I said?

So the user ....... didnt say they would rather be accused of rape than have me rape them?

I have no problem standing behind what I said. Again. I believe what I said. I may have not explained it while I wrote it but I believe it.

All rape victims have access to help

No victims of false accusations have access to any form of help

I am not saying that rape victims are better or worse off. I am saying that in terms of getting help, Victims of false allegations are in a worse position and are less able to move on.

Mr.H

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Yes presumed but not proven.

You must prove guilt not innocence

_Dara_

This tweet is disturbing. People are losing the plot. I replied to the tweet (in a civil manner) but I'm not expecting a response.

sydthebeat

_Dara_ wrote: »

This tweet is disturbing. People are losing the plot.

wow

the shark has finally jumped

Sidebaro

GreeBo wrote:

But you think its ok for her to text her friends and say the lads raped her?

GreeBo wrote:

Seems fair.

I refuse to believe that you think that lads bragging about sex is the same thing as reaching out to a friend when you feel that sex was non consensual.

Brock Turnpike

_Dara_ wrote: »

This tweet is disturbing. People are losing the plot.

A dangerously stupid statement to make. I'd like to see her try to explain her logic

ShowMeTheCash

Mr.H wrote: »

You must prove guilt not innocence

Yes I am aware of that and the point I am making.

wes

I think the protesters should protest outside the British embassy, what with this being a case that happened in the UK. Nothing the Irish government or any of our TDs can do about it,

[Deleted User]

wes wrote: »

I think the protesters should protest outside the British embassy, what with this being a case that happened in the UK. Nothing the Irish government or any of our TDs can do about it,

No no, we're all to blame for rape culture.

Mr.H

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Yes I am aware of that and the point I am making.

No your not. You are trying to say they are innocent and attaching an *

They are innocent full stop

utyh2ikcq9z76b

Red Alert wrote: »

Seems a lot of the current protesters would favour a system that convicts based on accusation.

I assume thats what they are protesting for?

NIMAN

It's quite obvious from the backlash that these fellas will likely never play rugby for Ireland again.

And Ulster will have a big decision to make too.

Although they have been founded guilty, their lives have been changed forever. Mud sticks.

Adamocovic

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I’m sympathetic to her, as my posts show but people who don’t realise that it’s a different legal system bug the hell out of me.

This has led to nonsense on twitter about Irish law, Catholicism etc from foreigners and more ridiculously Irish people.

Even on here. One reply to me was that the rugby team was all Ireland, so...

Exactly!

I'm in the same boat, for the majority of the trial I thought they were guilty, swayed a few times but will accept the decision. Fully sympathetic to her and what she's been through, likewise to the accused.

But the outcry against our legal system is just so frustrating to me. Phrases like, "Once again we have been let down by our own country" by people from Dublin. Or people going on about the facts but can't get the most simple fact that it was under Northern Irish law correct.

So many of the things people are calling for in terms of anonymity are already the differences between ours and Northern Irish Law. Yes sometimes there illegal leaks to twitter, but the accused would remain anonymous before the verdict and there would be no public members attending the trial. Also we just passed our new Criminal Sex Laws last year which aim to help the accuser and define consent in the best manner.

Like I'm sorry for ranting but it really grinds my gears that with all the access to internet to organise these marches and hold debates that they can't take five minute to distinguish the differences between the two systems and the fact that this trial was not under our law.

Faugheen

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Sidebaro wrote: »

Both are about women's rights. Fairly easy connection to make if you try hard enough?

But the trial did not impinge in any way on her rights. She got the fair trial she was entitled to.

Or do you think a woman’s right should being able to accuse a man of rape and have him put away no questions asked?

She wasn't the one on trial...

lawred2

_Dara_ wrote: »

This tweet is disturbing. People are losing the plot.

the loolah is strong in that one

Mokuba

Louie Moldy Body wrote: »

I assume thats what they are protesting for?

Yes, because women are agentless victims, pure and innocent, incapable of malice or mistake.

They should be believed automatically over evil, bad men.

Regardless of evidence.

The views presented by the woman in that tweet are shared by many at that protest.

cavemeister

_Dara_ wrote: »

This tweet is disturbing. People are losing the plot. I replied to the tweet (in a civil manner) but I'm not expecting a response.

Good lord. I sincerely hope that girl is never called upon to serve on a Jury. There is such contempt in her.

storker

_Dara_ wrote: »

This tweet is disturbing. People are losing the plot.

So an injustice done to four people is better than an injustice done to one. Got it.

Here's the logic that underpins this kind of BS...

"Someone must be punished...this is someone...therefore we must punish them."