Gintonious wrote: » 3. Karate stance - All well and good if you are in a Karate competition, throwing kicks etc. That extra distance in a boxing fight gives your opponent more time (as mentioned above) to see punches coming, your punches will be weaker as you lose the rotation in your hips to throw and effective punch and it will also screw up your footwork. So if he does use that above game plan, Floyd might take a round or 2 to get used to it. Then I see him doing whatever he wants. That is IF he does that.
wonderfullife wrote: » Maybe but the converse is true too. If the distance is greater then Floyd has to cover more distance to land punches too and leaves himself vulnerable to counters, especially because launching attacks from that far back is not something he has even had to do in fights before. I know he's sparring with Kevin Lee (mixed martial artist) and Kevin will probably give Floyd that look in sparring but other than those rounds, he won't have much experience of attacking a guy standing at kicking range.
The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: » Floyd wont attack, he wont have to. When Conor throws punches Floyd will counter and that will be enough to win the fight on its own. I read your piece on Conor changing what is the norm in boxing, I'm sorry but Conor is not a radical thinker who is coming up with something that's never been seen before. He's an opportunist who is getting a chance to make life altering money in a fight he has little to no chance of winning. If what you say is true and he's working on a never before seen game plan then fair play. My gut would be he fights like that because it's what he knows and is most comfortable doing. He's not an idiot and knows he cant compete as a boxer so is keeping distance to Floyd in the hope that he lands a big punch. Whether it works or not is another thing, giving Floyd that much time to work with I personally feel will be a disaster. Especially as Conor's jab from what we've seen is pretty non existant.
Gintonious wrote: » But for Conor, if he is the one attacking (which the consensus is so far) then Floyd just has to wait for him to come towards him, as he does with pretty much everyone until he has them marked and he walks them down, which is equally as scary. If Conor uses a large distance, moves in and attacks, and drops that right hand like he does and keeps his chin high (like he does), that is a scary thing to be doing against someone like Mayweather. I don't think the converse like you put it, holds its weight as against my initial judgement on the use of distance.
wonderfullife wrote: » Agree 100%, Floyd's handspeed, reflexes, combinations, defensive shell is chalk and cheese to anything Conor has ever faced before. There's every chance Conor is in for a rude awakening and I'll acknowledge that's very likely. I hate to use the Robin Black analogy but I'll do it anyway... imagine Floyd is the Hilton (the best hotel chain) and along comes McGregor who is AirBnB. Or similar comparisons - Floyd's the best taxi around and along comes Uber. His point, however flawed, is that in life and sport there comes a moment where someone comes along and challenges the commonly-accepted way of doing things. The best example I can think of is the high-jump in athletics. When Dick Fosbury came along, every elite high jumper ran up to the bar and jumped with their chest going over the bar. Fosbury came along and torqued his body mid-jump so that his back would be going over it. Fosbury, in the beginning, was mocked and ridiculed with people thinking he's a joke and could never beat the best with this weird technique. Fast forward even 20 years and literally every single high jumper uses the Fosbury flop. Conor is attempting something very similar. He's being laughed at and mocked and like Fosbury he may not have immediate success. He may lose to Floyd. But there's always the chance he wins and people re-assess concepts like range , stance and distance. Boxing has been constantly evolving for a century and in 100 years from now people will look back at Floyd and think 'wow, they boxed in such a primitive way back then'.
wonderfullife wrote: » The onus is on who to attack? Floyd is supposed to be the best boxer of his generation. If Conor is standing at kicking range not doing a lot and the crowd starts booing, it'll be because Floyd was expected to be the one teaching the novice a lesson. He can't just sit there and expect Conor to always attack, he'll have to launch his own blitzes.
walshb wrote: » You mad bastid!:)
Gintonious wrote: » He is a counterpuncher man, its his job to wait for you to attack. He won't give a rats if the crowd boo, he is used to that so much already in his career. It won't be because Floyd isn't attacking, its because they are not entertained. Don't forget, Conor has said its done within 4 rounds, he has been saying he will knock him out. A teaching lesson in boxing doesn't automatically mean that you have to be on the offensive, a Mayweather boxing lesson is eating punches after you have swung and missed. He will sit there and wait for as long as he wants, it matters little to him.
wonderfullife wrote: » All I'm saying is most boxers fight from traditional stances and throw traditional attacks. Why is that? Well, it's because it's been proven over decades to be the most effective way to box. But for decades in athletics, the proven way to high jump was straight run-ups from an angle and jump chest first over the bar. Fosbury came along and was like, I'm gonna try it my way let's see how it goes... all conventional wisdom, decades worth of consensus, was that he was doing it the wrong way and would fail miserably. Instead of trying to beat them at their own game, he changed the game. If Conor lands a left hand from an attack he started in a karate stance at kicking range, flattens Floyd and walks away with his $100 million, of course it's only human nature that other boxers coming up will re-evaluate the consensus ideas on range, stance and distance. Whether in life or in sport, if you're not willing to open your mind to the possibility there might be better ways of doing things, nothing would ever change.
The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: » Lads what we are all forgetting and what Wonderful, Pete and Gerry have all mentioned is that McGregor is going to have a gameplan. Its going to be such a wonderful gameplan, like no other gameplan ever and Conor and his team have come up with it and it's going to be amazing. Wait till august 26th when we see this gameplan, like no other game plan ever.
Sweet Science wrote: » In fairness to Floyd he doesnt always have to fight that way . For example Mosley he always got off 1st . Inviting someone as skilled as him onto you isnt good news . The best way for someone to fight him is ugly boxing ( which is probably the hardest to master as them boxers are normally born to fight that way )
GerryDerpy wrote: » I know what his game plan is. Insider in the camp. Will tell you the details for 100 quid.
Gintonious wrote: » You're comparing apples and oranges here man. Boxing is continuously evolving, its been doing that for over a century now. And because of that it is highly refined, so in that respect any type of change or challenge to the status quo is quite minimal in that respect. The type of change that you highlighted in the high jump was drastic, but it also happened in an event that just doesn't have the same type of spectrum as boxing. The fundamentals of boxing always work and are always taught for a reason. To just drop them and go against the convention of the norm of a sport that is so well refined, but still play within the rules of the sport, its wishful thinking.
GerryDerpy wrote: » While you are talking sense, it is not just someone coming in and trying something unconventional. It is someone (McGregor) that has mastered combat fighting at a different range than is normal in boxing, he is applying a mastered skill to a different problem.
gilmour wrote: » I'm a bit rusty about discussing fights online lads so ignore the potential and highly likely number of grammar errors and what have you but i was asked a simple question this morning by a mate who is a big MMA fan and we have good conversations back and forth about upcoming MMA and Boxing fights (i ask him about little details in MMA that i have no idea about and vice versa). Anyway the question was "Honestly, if you're Conor whats the best chance considering his style, to do anything to Floyd?". Now the obvious answer would be "not much" but i did give it a bit of thought and because i rewatched Floyd v Guerrero last night i started to think about what Floyd achieved in that fight and how. The interesting thing about that fight was how Floyd adapted from the first 2 rounds to the 9th (when he bruised his right hand), it was a masterpiece of how to fight a southpaw. But the first and second rounds were very interesting, Guerrero decided to throw with Floyd, finger on the trigger, anytime Floyd threw he threw with him. And to a small degree it worked, the main reason why it didn't work was because Floyd made him miss a lot of shots, by a whisker and adjusted his gameplan thereafter. But the reach advantage Conor will have would make that approach quite tricky for Floyd if he were to fight as he did against Guerrero, and i think he will. For some reason over the years Floyd has the reputation of having trouble with southpaws but in reality he is more aggressive with them and does tend to fight more in the pocket than an Orthodox fighter (Chop Chop, Judah, Ortiz, Guerrero) the only exception was Pacquiao. He attacks the body with a right jab and throws a variety of right hands with the occasional leading left hook. The reach advantage is there for Conor to clip Floyd after he deploys his right jab to the body. It was there for Guerrero but he couldnt match the speed, reach and crucially he threw next to no uppercuts to counter Floyd. But in the counters he did throw he missed by a **** hair, time after time. So by answering my mate i give Conor a chance to be effective in a certain spot for a limited number of rounds. Not a "if he lands its over" shot, because i highly doubt that will be the case despite Conors power in MMA, but definitely a "i can see how he could land a few and see what happens after that" kind of approach. He won't have anywhere near the speed or boxing IQ of Guerrero to perhaps even get himself into those positions, but he will have the reach and maybe accuracy against a 4 year older Floyd, who has been inactive for 2 years if he did. Btw i rarely gave any chance to any world class boxer against Mayweather over the past 15 years let alone a lad making his pro fight debut, so obviously i'm sticking my arse out to say that he will TKO Conor by the 8th. But its a big event, and theres a lot of clowns out there just flapping their lips without knowing anything about both sports so its good to talk about little details (in moderation!). Just one thing for MMA heads, how in christ do you put up with that Robin Black nutjob? I watched a couple of his videos the other day and i swear to god i nearly choked from laughter, i need the phone number of the mans dealer
mfceiling wrote: » How does a guy with minimal boxing experience expect to get in to the ring with an all time boxing great and expect to win?
mfceiling wrote: » Floyd is unbeaten in 49 fights against the best boxers that have been in the weight divisions. Multiple world boxing champions - southpaws, knockout specialists, counter punchers have all stepped in and were carried out, counted out, knocked out or taken apart. How does a guy with minimal boxing experience expect to get in to the ring with an all time boxing great and expect to win?
Sweet Science wrote: » I admire your post and how much you get into it . However i dont agree. Its nice to see someone come with a left of centre opinion on why Conor can have success and not the usual 'Left hand' 'power' tripe thats rolled out . I really dont think Conor will fight the way you think. Maybe he will to a degree. But a wide karate stance would be an awful idea
Ash.J.Williams wrote: Conor will win inside 5 rounds... Ko
walshb wrote: Like I said, he had nothing to really lose. Floyd has it all to lose, so for Floyd to save some face for me, he needs to be very clearly dominating.
hbhook wrote: Like many others I watch a ****load of boxing on youtube. I discovered yesterday that Mayweather v Maidana 1 is now on youtube. The tag says it was posted 2 years ago but I've never came across it until now. I don't know why that is..I only ever downloaded a couple of fights.
GerryDerpy wrote: Ok time for another to come out of the closet and prepare to be ashamed:
GerryDerpy wrote: My prediction is that conor makes this boxing match into a fight and surprises Floyd with his awkward style.
GerryDerpy wrote: He KO's Floyd within 3 rounds.
wonderfullife wrote: » Maybe it will be but I feel confident in saying an even worse idea would be for him to try pretend to be a traditional boxer. His karate stance got him to the dance! Stick with it. His kicking range is where he has 10,000 hours practice. Stick with it. His in-and-out attacks are where he's comfortable. Stick with it.If you're gonna lose, at least lose doing what you know best. If you're gonna lose, at least lose doing something 47 other boxers didn't do. I'd be shocked, surprised, disappointed and embarrassed if Conor gets in there and tries to stand in a traditional southpaw stance with a high guard and pretends to be a boxer. One thing Conor is not afraid of is getting embarrassed. IMO he should go in there, fight his own fight and if Floyd embarrasses him at least he can look in the mirror and tell himself he tried something nobody else tried.
Gintonious wrote: » I got a giggle out of that one when I said to myself "maybe he should stick with MMA so".
hbhook wrote: » https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA7O1krogGQ Look at Mayweather's reaction to the first blow. Very impressive. I'm not sure I'd seen Floyd hurt before and I think Mosley got to him 4 or 5 times there. It was mostly shocking though because I really didn't think Shane had it in him at that point. For anyone who didn't see the rest of the fight Floyd proceeded to engage full super boxer mode and completely dominated thereafter.. Maidana II he got caught but I don't think he was hurt. More like stunned. I forget though. Correct me if I'm wrong!
walshb wrote: » Was it not fight 1 vs. Maidana that he got tagged at the end of rd 6 I think from an overhand timed right hand? Right in Floyd's corner. Clean shot, not huge, and stopped Floyd in his tracks, as well as had him clearly wobbly. Who knows had there been more time in the rd? Edit: fight 2 at end of rd 3.
Eyes Down Field wrote: » Taxi for Gerry Derpy!
