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Wrongly fined €150 for illegal dumping

paulb06

Hi,

Would like some advice.

We availed of a 'classified' ad in Northside People in April for someone to come and fix a gutter issue where birds were nesting.

The man came out to my mother on her own while I was in work, had a look at the problem and quoted her €3.5k to sort it out. She said no way, however he went and done it anyway and demanded €2000 after the work was done. Basically a cowboy builder, anyway to cut a long story short, he ended up taking just €200 from us which already explains the type of person he was.

The issue I have is that he emptied our attic out of the stuff that was up there (old stuff that we never threw out, black bags) - my mam didn't know all my personal stuff was there either, he put them all in his truck (after leaving and coming back with 4 other men) then he went and 'fixed' the gutter telling us the rubbish would be sent to a recycling facility - never received evidence of this and now I know why.

Only today have I received a illegal littering fine of €150, the absolute moron dumped the rubbish and never sent it to a recycling facility, I received a photo from the council of a big pile of rubbish, all of it was not mine, with photocopies of my wage slips (shoebox of all old wage slips that I kept was taken when he took all the black bags from the attic)

I have the classified ad still as the experience we had was disgraceful.

What are my options regarding appealing this fine?

I am willing to fight this all the way, my mother was intimidated by this asshole and he knew this.

I have screenshots of conversations with friends over what happened back in April so I am hoping this will be some sort of evidence to show what went on and that it wasn't us who dumped this, furthermore if I was illegally dumping, which I NEVER would, why would I be that stupid to throw out all my wage slips and personal information with them?

Sorry for the long post.

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Hitman3000

alig123aileen wrote:

Good luck with your battle with the council!

He'll need it.

paulb06

Hitman3000 wrote: »

So your Mum was intimidated, but it never occurred to you to involve the Guards? Why not?

When did I say at any stage that it never occurred to me to get the Gardai involved? Of course it occurred to me!

He knows where she lives. Thinking of my mother's safety - the main reason we didn't get them involved.

This was all forgotten about as far as I was concerned until I received the fine.

Sam Kade

paulb06 wrote: »

I allowed this person to dump? Seriously? Good man.

To access the problem, you need access through the attic to check the extent of the problem - that is the connection.

The attic was full of black bags stored up there over the years.

Why would he need to go into the attic to get to the gutter? Doesn't make sense.

Hitman3000

paulb06 wrote:

When did I say at any stage that it never occurred to me to get the Gardai involved? Of course it occurred to me!

You do realise if you are going to appeal it you need to provide the details of who removed the rubbish.

Hitman3000

paulb06 wrote:

This was all forgotten about as far as I was concerned until I received the fine.

In you're initial post you asked for advice. Well here's some if you choose to accept it. First pay the fine, tough pill to swallow but less hassle. Second if you ever want work done for you or any other family member seek recommendations from family, friends or neighbours and look at previous work carried out by whoever is recommended to you. Not being a smarta$$ just some advice.

paulb06

Hitman3000 wrote: »

You do realise if you are going to appeal it you need to provide the details of who removed the rubbish.

Yes I know that.

Shelflife

Hi Paul, I recently had an issue similar to your own. I did some building work and some rubble was taken away and dumped at another site for foundations all legit and above board.

The other site was refused planning permission so the foundation rubble became waste and the removal of the rubble became my problem. I queried how it was my issue and the council said as it was my property it was my responsibility to ensure it was dumped legally.

In my case it was the contractor who sorted it out for me, but the legal obligation lay at my door.

It will probably be the same with yourself, your rubbish was given to someone to dump correctly, even though the fault lay with the "contractor" the rubbish is still your property and the responsibility to dump correctly remains yours.

Appeal away if you want , but just dont throw good money after bad as its stacked against you.

Alun

I agree. Just view the €150 "fine" as the money you would have had to pay to dispose of it properly in the first place, and forget about it.

wench

paulb06 wrote: »

He knows where she lives. Thinking of my mother's safety - the main reason we didn't get them involved.

Is your mother's continued safety not worth another €150?

Roger Hassenforder

Shelflife wrote: »

Hi Paul, I recently had an issue similar to your own. I did some building work and some rubble was taken away and dumped at another site for foundations all legit and above board.

The other site was refused planning permission so the foundation rubble became waste and the removal of the rubble became my problem. I queried how it was my issue and the council said as it was my property it was my responsibility to ensure it was dumped legally.

In my case it was the contractor who sorted it out for me, but the legal obligation lay at my door.

out of curiosity, was it not always "waste"?
I thought you could only use rubble on the same site for fill, but once it goes off site, it becomes waste, so the site it goes to, would need some kid of permit to use it, rather than planning permission..

Effects

Sam Kade wrote: »

Why would he need to go into the attic to get to the gutter? Doesn't make sense.

Please see page one where this was already discussed. It makes perfect sense in the bigger picture.

Shelflife

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

out of curiosity, was it not always "waste"?
I thought you could only use rubble on the same site for fill, but once it goes off site, it becomes waste, so the site it goes to, would need some kid of permit to use it, rather than planning permission..

It was about 10 years ago, not sure of the ins and outs but that's the way it was explained to me.

As regards to the OPs case , my point was that the waste was mine and the disposal of it correctly was my responsibility.

nuac

Paulb06

I presume you have got legal advice by now.
The 150 Euro is an OTS fine for minor matters
The Council could still issue and serve a DC summons on you, as this considerable amount of litter is traceable to you . Max fine 3,000 Euro.

Or/ by any chance are you telling the full story here?

paulb06

nuac wrote: »

Paulb06

I presume you have got legal advice by now.
The 150 Euro is an OTS fine for minor matters
The Council could still issue and serve a DC summons on you, as this considerable amount litter is traceable to you . Max fine 3,000 Euro.

Or/ by any chance are you telling the full story here?

This "considerable" amount litter was not all mine but that's another thing I won't be able to prove Nuac, but thanks again for accusing me of not being fully truthful.

Again, I have asked anyone who had doubts over my story to query with directly with me and I felt I had answered them but anyway - it's extremely frustrating trying to answer all the keyboard warriors here when whatever I say is never going to be good enough or will prompt a stupid reply.

I am now aware I will not able to prove to the council that this absolute toerag dumped my stuff so I will be biting the bullet and will be paying the €150 fine and will know in future to use reputable companies to dispose of my rubbish.

Wanderer78

Hard lesson op but I'm fairly sure I've seen illegal dumping like this before. came across some before, it was blatantly obvious where the waste came from, local business, but like yourself, I suspect they used unlicensed remover. We reported it anyway, never followed it up, so no idea if there was a fine or prosecution, probably not, waste was removed though

paulb06

Hi all

Just a follow up, in the end I decided to appeal the fine directly with the council as it wasn't costing me anything to do so.

Wrote out a letter explaining the entire situation and that the main point I wanted to get across was that that we never used this "company" to remove any rubbish, we only used them to provide us with a quote to fix the issue with the birds nesting in the gutter. I also printed out 2 ads from the paper which I sent to the council and requested they actively pursue them.

I am happy to confirm they have reviewed the whole situation the appeal was successful!

Absolutely delighted!

degsie

A lesson for everyone, current radio ads also raising awareness. Only use licenced operators who should have ID and licence number on display.