road_high wrote: » In some instances it is, but certainly not routinely always. Anything else is akin to rent a mob style justice ala the free water brigade. Respecting authority and believing in ridiculous leftie conspiracies are two very different things.
Wanderer78 wrote: » always, always question authority! how about respect all humans, always! what ridiculous leftie conspiracies would they be?
road_high wrote: » The type of loons that believe the Gardai abs media are in Denis Obrien's pocket etc...you know the type of nutters that post such stuff here daily. Usually because they don't work to keep themselves busy, but quite happy to live off the taxpayer.
AnGaelach wrote: » Just wondering what people think about it. Say spending a year in the military and then spending x number of days per year training. Your vote won't be public.
Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: » ... and you want to stifle this debate by throwing them all in the army?! Sounds like a right-wing conspiracy now!
road_high wrote: » Yes it might instill some kind of greater concern for society and respect for others. At the moment we have a free for all approach, where those that want to opt out of responsibility (to pay taxes and contribute can) can do so.
Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: » ... or it might do the exact opposite. You can't force free individuals to feel something like that - they either feel it of their own volition or they don't - and you can't force people to respect something.
Wanderer78 wrote: » some interesting issues within your statement: the gardai, damn right they should be paid more. people like denis o'brien, bad news for society as a whole, and long term unemployment, root causes which are extremely complex of which our government has no real interest in dealing with.
road_high wrote: » Oh won't the government please give me a job...I'm entitled to one! Not how the real world works, governments only create the conditions for jobs to flourish. If the "long term unemployed" are too lazy or precious to take up those opportunities im not sure what more they can do? Apart from slash welfare which is what they should be doing.
road_high wrote: » Oh won't the government please give me a job...I'm entitled to one!Not how the real world works, governments only create the conditions for jobs to flourish. If the "long term unemployed" are too lazy or precious to take up those opportunities im not sure what more they can do? Apart from slash welfare which is what they should be doing.
Wanderer78 wrote: » a very common and serious misdiagnoses of the root causes of long term unemployment, but not to worry, many of our politicians think in a similar vain.
Deleted User wrote: » What on earth makes you think that? In general we are a very hardworking race
road_high wrote: » Most are. But there's a huge cohort that ain't. Let's not pretend they don't exist.
Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: » And you want to resolve this by throw them (consription means everone) in the army? And while you're at it, what will the army have to do with lowering welfare rates?
road_high wrote: » As I've said several times, it may instill a little collective responsibility and discipline in people's lives at a young age- where they might develop a sense that hey, the taxpayer doesn't owe me a living for life. That I should get up off my arse and do things for myself.
Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: » This is the third time I've had to tell you that you can't force people to like or respect something. It's pretty clear from your posts and anti-welfare/unemployment bull**** that you have no idea what the idea is about, what its aims are or who it's even trying to target; and until you do there's no point in debating it with you.
Deleted User wrote: » What type of institution is it going to be though? Thats my concern. Id like a one that makes people and not breaks them. I like the idea but it needs to be executed correctly.
road_high wrote: » You don't want to debate because you don't want to hear a few hard truths that link welfare dependence to a general lack of self discipline and sense of responsibility in Irish society. A period of military service may help instill that sense of responsibility. Please don't patronise me just because you disagree with my assertion.
Deleted User wrote: » That is assumptions though. As you admitted yourself, its not everyone that does this. Im doing a postgrad through springboard at the moment and everyone on this course is highly committed to it and most of the people who were on it are delighted to be doing something in their day because they were getting cabin fever at home. . Assumptions and reality are different and that is something ive learned as part of this postgrad im doing.
road_high wrote: » I wouldnt group you and your colleagues in that bracket as clearly you want to upskill and get back into the labor force (not sure what spring board is but think it's retraining or upskilling if you've been out of work?).
road_high wrote: Yes definitely. It might install a greater sense of public duty and personal responsibility amongst the Irish populace. There's a huge lack of respect for all authority and rules in this country, a period of military or civic service might knock that into a few of us.
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » If the patents never tried to instill them then there's very little chance of it lasting long after they get home.
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » Fair play for thinking about it. I imagine a lot of people are much happier to sign others up once they know they're precluded for service themselves. I think if you ask people if service age you'd get a much lower number than people above service age, for example. That's why I think compulsory military service is a bit like Brexit. As demographics the older people voted to leave while the younger people voted to remain (particularly the ones who will have to live their entire adult life with the consequences of the referendum) 'I'll sign, you soldier' is an easier decision to make than having to do both yourself.
Widdershins wrote: Do you really think that after a year of proving themselves to themselves and to the army they would actually want to go back to having nothing to offer anybody and having no purpose? If that's the case then people are irredeemable and we might as well give up.
El_Duderino 09 wrote: » Some people are irredeemable. We usually wait for them to commit crimes and imprison them. Some people might benefit from the training but that would be a byproduct of military experience rather than the Intended outcome. The intended outcome is to create unthinking/unquestioning instruments for the military. If you want to rehab people who have been taught to be listless losers/scumbags by their environment, that's a noble goal. The military is a blunt instrument for achieving that outcome. If you're proposing a disciplined approach to applied learning, that's another thing. Teaching people to use weapons or work as an actual military unit is not productive back in civilised society. Teaching useful skills might be useful though. What happens when they get back into their old problematic environment?
Widdershins wrote: I dont see it that way. Yes being able to follow an order is part of it.Holding your end up is part of that-working as a unit or a team. Some people can't do that because they're too selfish and have never worked that way. It's also about endurance and grit. Those two things are the keys to success of almost any kind in life.
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