Options on Rav4 engine rebuild

Mine's a Pint

Rav4, 00D reg, 1.8 petrol.
Oil fouling the catalytic converter
Obviously oil from engine
Need to do a rebuild

What is the likely problem (some specifics would be welcome, relevant Rav4 experience especially)
Where would you recommend I get it done (near or in Dublin preference)
Any idea on how much it would cost

Is buying another (second hand) engine a realistic option?

Supergurrier

Cut and run

knifey_spoonie

I would be guessing that the Piston rings have lost tension, common enough issue on these engines.

What happen is when the rings lose tension, it allows oil to be pushed passed and it enter the combustion chamber, this causes oil consumption and can also foul Cats.

Any decent garage can do it, i would imagine some where between €500-700.

If you can find a second hand engine it will more than likely have the same issues.So its pointless.

Mine's a Pint

knifey_spoonie wrote: »

I would be guessing that the Piston rings have lost tension, common enough issue on these engines.

What happen is when the rings lose tension, it allows oil to be pushed passed and it enter the combustion chamber, this causes oil consumption and can also foul Cats.

Any decent garage can do it, i would imagine some where between €500-700.

If you can find a second hand engine it will more than likely have the same issues.So its pointless.

Thanks for the feedback knifey. Appreciated.

I don't intend to cut and run, at least not too quickly. However, I can see some logic in that argument - but my feeling is that the car (other than this one big problem) is so good and the mileage is so low, I'll be an optimist for a while.

joujoujou

What's the mileage?

Yet another thirsty ZZ engine.

If you're able to source the same coded engine (1ZZ-FE), but manufactured 2003 or later - it will be more than likely without oil related problems.

Those engines are also fitted to 1.8 avensis, FYI.

Mine's a Pint

92k (miles)

Rings & pistons seem to be the main culprits. Am I right here, oversized rings used to overcome undersized pistons (a design flaw).

flutered

i had one, well i still have it, i intend keeping it for a rainy day, it is worth €150 from a scrapper, so it will be parked for a while yet, if i had bought a 4.0ltr jag, it would not have cost me as much since i brought it home.

Mine's a Pint

Any recommendations on the following that I am considering;

Dan Daly (Dunshaughlin)
AutoFactory (Parkwest)
Howard Eng (Glasnevin)
Loftus Farrell (Harolds X)

thehammer69

joujoujou wrote: »

What's the mileage?

Yet another thirsty ZZ engine.

If you're able to source the same coded engine (1ZZ-FE), but manufactured 2003 or later - it will be more than likely without oil related problems.

Those engines are also fitted to 1.8 avensis, FYI.

T

Mine's a Pint

flutered wrote: »

i had one, well i still have it, i intend keeping it for a rainy day, it is worth €150 from a scrapper, so it will be parked for a while yet, if i had bought a 4.0ltr jag, it would not have cost me as much since i brought it home.

So it is not a crash write-off, or is it?. I'm not clear on what you are saying. Are you suggesting that you are willing to sell the engine or are you trying to get more than €150 for the lot? Or is it not for sale in the first place?

Bigus

Mine's a Pint wrote: »

Any recommendations on the following that I am considering;

Dan Daly (Dunshaughlin)
AutoFactory (Parkwest)
Howard Eng (Glasnevin)
Loftus Farrell (Harolds X)

Lofty, you could eat your dinner off the floor and machines there, plus no bull, old style to boot.

Mine's a Pint

Bigus wrote: »

Lofty, you could eat your dinner off the floor and machines there, plus no bull, old style to boot.

That sounds like a good recommendation for Lofty

thehammer69

Cool

Drummerboy08

Lofty or Howard eng, both are well regarded in the business.

Although Dan Daly can build a mean Formula Libra engine so I wouldn't rule him out either!

flutered

Mine's a Pint wrote: »

So it is not a crash write-off, or is it?. I'm not clear on what you are saying. Are you suggesting that you are willing to sell the engine or are you trying to get more than €150 for the lot? Or is it not for sale in the first place?

yes, 150 for the lot, the damm thing is running, the engine is crap, one day when the arse pocket is empty, it is off to the scrapyard, possibly sooner if i get an offer for it, and say yes, yes, away you go.

Mine's a Pint

flutered wrote: »

yes, 150 for the lot, the damm thing is running, the engine is crap, one day when the arse pocket is empty, it is off to the scrapyard, possibly sooner if i get an offer for it, and say yes, yes, away you go.

In case I decide to look into this, is it located in Dublin and if so, whereabouts? What mileage? What year? Irish reg or import? You said that 'the engine is crap'. Honest, but that seems to only brings me back to where I started.

Mine's a Pint

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Lofty or Howard eng, both are well regarded in the business.

Although Dan Daly can build a mean Formula Libra engine so I wouldn't rule him out either!

OK, 3 of the 4 are very good. BTW, is Dan Daly a bit of a specialist - in that he is so good he gets away with charging a bit more? The reputation and target customer seems oriented at 911 owners and so forth, not the more humble breakdown where an optimist hopes to breath some life into an old family car.

flutered

Mine's a Pint wrote: »

In case I decide to look into this, is it located in Dublin and if so, whereabouts? What mileage? What year? Irish reg or import? You said that 'the engine is crap'. Honest, but that seems to only brings me back to where I started.

i am down in co. limerick, i am twelve miles from tipp town, it is heavy on petrol and oil, it has had the rocker cover gasket replaced, it has had all the gaskets on the lh as you face it side of the engine replaced, also the timing belt was been replaced, it failed the test last feb i think on the emmissions only, i had the wrong mechanic, the cat was replaced by a universal one, afterwards i was told that a one from a corolla or an advincis should have been put on it, it is outside my mates house, he thinks that it gives the impression that there is somebody inside when he goes out, oh yeah it is a jap import,

joujoujou

Mine's a Pint wrote: »

92k (miles)

[...]

A bit too early to kill 1ZZ, I'd say, if not clocked.

What amount of oil you had to top up between services?

What's your driving style?

Mine's a Pint

joujoujou wrote: »

A bit too early to kill 1ZZ, I'd say, if not clocked.

What amount of oil you had to top up between services?

What's your driving style?

Very little oil is being burnt. Black (not blue) smoke appears when idling for a while. I drove on M50, arrived at exhaust shop, no smoke or smell. It seems fine on an open road is the impression I have. Anyway, the mechanic/fitter thought the problem must be the o2 sensor. Switched off engine. Removed o2 sensor, dirty with oil. Oil in cat too. Cleaned sensor. Started engine to heat it up preparing for emission test, mechanic distracted by another customer for a short while, smoke starts again and plenty of it. Switched off engine. No point testing.

Drive home, no smoke evident.

No oil added in recent times and no oil light so not burning much as far as I can tell.

Driving style middle of the road, not aggressive. Don't know about previous owners though.

Checked out Lofty's place today. Cost is just too much, talking thousands.

Thinking of advertising on Donedeal, perhaps the wanted section. Crashed car with decent engine may be the best bet.

Bigus

Mine's a Pint wrote: »

Very little oil is being burnt. Black (not blue) smoke appears when idling for a while. I drove on M50, arrived at exhaust shop, no smoke or smell. It seems fine on an open road is the impression I have. Anyway, the mechanic/fitter thought the problem must be the o2 sensor. Switched off engine. Removed o2 sensor, dirty with oil. Oil in cat too. Cleaned sensor. Started engine to heat it up preparing for emission test, mechanic distracted by another customer for a short while, smoke starts again and plenty of it. Switched off engine. No point testing.

Drive home, no smoke evident.

No oil added in recent times and no oil light so not burning much as far as I can tell.

Driving style middle of the road, not aggressive. Don't know about previous owners though.

Checked out Lofty's place today. Cost is just too much, talking thousands.

Thinking of advertising on Donedeal, perhaps the wanted section. Crashed car with decent engine may be the best bet.

So why not drive it on ?

or am I missing something Even after re reading

I'd start with a good engine flush, a drive (not idle) and good oil and filter.

Worked for an avensis man on this forum already.

flutered

Bigus wrote: »

So why not drive it on ?

or am I missing something Even after re reading

I'd start with a good engine flush, a drive (not idle) and good oil and filter.

Worked for an avensis man on this forum already.

then go to a scrap yard and get a cat from a corolla and avensis, if possible from a car with a recent nct, make sure to get it fitted the day before the test so no oil etc gets into it.

joujoujou

Mine's a Pint wrote: »

Very little oil is being burnt. Black (not blue) smoke appears when idling for a while. [...] Removed o2 sensor, dirty with oil. Oil in cat too.

Actually, above confused me alot. If very little of oil is being burnt, why smoke appears? What's the source of oil in cat and o2 sensor?

Mine's a Pint wrote: »

[...]
No oil added in recent times and no oil light so not burning much as far as I can tell.

Dipstick would tell more about that.

Oil light goes up on ZZ if oil level is very, very low.

Mine's a Pint wrote: »

Driving style middle of the road, not aggressive. [...]

That's not good. All those Japanese grinders love to be ran flatout frequently. I realize such driving style will severely affect mpg thing, as well as may cause other problems like penalty points and speeding fines.

But from my own experience: it works.

And no, I have only 2 penalty points so far. :-P

Anyway, if you don't want to experiment with changing driving behaviours, think about 2nd hand engine. Ring traynors in N.I.

Nissan doctor

If its black smoke that its blowing then the first thing I would do on that engine is clean the Air flow meter. They are very prone to getting a coating of oil on them due to oil vapour from the breather system.

Mine's a Pint

Nissan doctor wrote: »

If its black smoke that its blowing then the first thing I would do on that engine is clean the Air flow meter. They are very prone to getting a coating of oil on them due to oil vapour from the breather system.

The lamda sensor (please excuse any spelling error) was removed and cleaned. According to diagnostics test, it works. I referred to the o2 sensor above. My assumption is that the 'lamda sensor' is also known as an 'air flow sensor' and the 'o2 sensor'.

I don't understand what the 'breather system' is. Can you explain it please. Until now my assumption was that the oil was most likely coming from a damaged piston ring or a damaged seal. You seem to be pointing out another possibility.

Mine's a Pint

joujoujou wrote: »

Actually, above confused me alot. If very little of oil is being burnt, why smoke appears? What's the source of oil in cat and o2 sensor? Dipstick would tell more about that.

Oil light goes up on ZZ if oil level is very, very low.

That's not good. All those Japanese grinders love to be ran flatout frequently. I realize such driving style will severely affect mpg thing, as well as may cause other problems like penalty points and speeding fines.

But from my own experience: it works.

And no, I have only 2 penalty points so far. :-P

Anyway, if you don't want to experiment with changing driving behaviours, think about 2nd hand engine. Ring traynors in N.I.

Car is being used so I will look at it again at the weekend, especially the dip stick.

I had a nosey at traynors ....... Thank you. That is good advice by all accounts. I know such places buy crashed cars and dismantle them in many, but not all cases. If I was to buy an engine, does anyone have an idea what would be charged? Perhaps it would it be cheaper to buy the whole crashed car as it is?

langdang

Mine's a Pint wrote: »

The lamda sensor (please excuse any spelling error) was removed and cleaned. According to diagnostics test, it works. I referred to the o2 sensor above. My assumption is that the 'lamda sensor' is also known as an 'air flow sensor' and the 'o2 sensor'.

I don't understand what the 'breather system' is. Can you explain it please. Until now my assumption was that the oil was most likely coming from a damaged piston ring or a damaged seal. You seem to be pointing out another possibility.

Air flow sensor refers to the MAF, "mass air flow" sensor (although not all cars have MAFs). It is on your INTAKE not your exhaust.

Breather - refers to the crankcase ventilation system - PCV, positive crankcase ventilation. With pistons etc whizzing up and down and some leakage from cylinders, pressure can build up within the engine, but outside of the cylinders. The PCV valve vents this back in through the engine's INTAKE - it can contain a mist of oil - that is part of why it is fedback through the engine rather than being vented off into the outside air.

So oil spray can foul up the MAF, which measures the amount of air coming into the engine, this messes up air/fuel ratio, giving you a black smutty exhaust. I've seen several cars that ran a little (or a lot) rich but never seen one so bad it was giving black smoke. But it does happen, maybe I have seen one but just assumed they were diesels if I did see them.

I'm not a mechanic, but the above is how things work as far as I understand them! I'm sure one of the pro's will point out anything wrong...

Mine's a Pint

Thank for taking the time to explain that langdang, it is a great explaination. I will have a look at that in daylight.

joujoujou

Mine's a Pint wrote: »

[...] If I was to buy an engine, does anyone have an idea what would be charged?

For 1ZZ-FE I'd expect 500-800 euro.

Mine's a Pint wrote: »

Perhaps it would it be cheaper to buy the whole crashed car as it is?

If you'll be lucky enough to get not very crashed RAV-4 - yes. But I doubt many crashed ravs can be found. Avensis are now the most popular source of 1ZZ-FE engines - if you buy one, what would you do with its remainings after pulling engine out?

Mine's a Pint

joujoujou wrote: »

For 1ZZ-FE I'd expect 500-800 euro. If you'll be lucky enough to get not very crashed RAV-4 - yes. But I doubt many crashed ravs can be found. Avensis are now the most popular source of 1ZZ-FE engines - if you buy one, what would you do with its remainings after pulling engine out?

I found what appears to be a bunch of them at partfinder.ie

No idea on prices yet though. :eek:

None are Y2K though. I wonder if engines from some of the other years will fit the Y2K Rav4?

As mentioned earlier, the Avensis 1.8 engine is also suitable for a swap-out. However, these would probably be less common than hens teeth in Ireland. Perhaps not such a problem in Northern Ireland though. Then there is the 2.0l engine, if it would fit???

What to do with the rest of a car? That is another problem all right. Perhaps I can park it outside some mates house to make it appear that someone in at home.......;)

flutered

as i said earlier what about a suzuki vitara 2.0ltr desiel, with the bombproof mazda turbo engine, you should get one for about 1100-1250 with a test.

Mine's a Pint

flutered wrote: »

as i said earlier what about a suzuki vitara 2.0ltr desiel, with the bombproof mazda turbo engine, you should get one for about 1100-1250 with a test.

Hi flutered,

I think you must be thinking of another thread. Great as they may be, I doubt that a suzuki diesel engine will fit a petrol Rav4.

flutered

Mine's a Pint wrote: »

Hi flutered,

I think you must be thinking of another thread. Great as they may be, I doubt that a suzuki diesel engine will fit a petrol Rav4.

my idea was/is that you drive the suzuki, youwould have it for the price of getting the rav4 on the road, better car cheaper to run, the inside will prob be a bit dated, but then it is easy to tart it up.

Mine's a Pint

Got you now. Thanks. As a matter of interest, what year/condition do you think would I get for that kind of money?

flutered

Mine's a Pint wrote: »

Got you now. Thanks. As a matter of interest, what year/condition do you think would I get for that kind of money?

dunno but i got one last march for 1150, it had a doe until the end of september, i got it a nct on it then at the first time of asking, all i have put into it is job on the altonater. it is quite good on the juice, 35 mpg, i recon, not bad for an auto, no oil burned between changes,it is high and comfortable, not asking to be driven like a rav4, but from roundabouts etc it is away faster than cars without being having the boot to the floor, for instance 1150 for the vitara what could you get for the rav4, compare then the repair bill and the cost of the vitara.

joujoujou

Mine's a Pint wrote: »

[...]

None are Y2K though. I wonder if engines from some of the other years will fit the Y2K Rav4?

Yes. As long as it's 1ZZ-FE it goes straight away. It may be slight difference in small bits and pieces - like 3pin sensor vs. 2pin sensor (keeping old sensor would do the trick with no problem), maybe a bit different throttle body (maybe), etc. Nothing difficult really.

Mine's a Pint wrote: »

[...] Then there is the 2.0l engine, if it would fit???

[...]

Not so easy. Keep 1.8 or change a car.

Mine's a Pint

The advice I am receiving is great. Thanks.

So the options for a 1ZZ-FE engine are Rav4, Celica & Avensis. Stick to the 1.8l version. That seems like a nice wide choice. Assembly of these engines stopped in late 2007.

There was a VVTi version in later years. Would the VVTi version complicate matters? Just wondering what years are suitable to swap out for the 2000 that is to be replaced.

I'm not forgetting the advice from flutered, just in case. TBH, at the time we were looking, there just was no sign of a suzuki Vitara within the price range.

joujoujou

Well, I'd personally avoid going from non-vvti to vvti (or opposite way). Too much hassle.

Mine's a Pint

I had a look at the back of the car, no vvti sticker. Popped the bonnet, 16 valve vvti cover in place. I hope that is good news.

From what I can make out, that version of the engine continued until late 2003, perhaps into early 2004.

I will check-out if the same applies to the Avensis & Celica.

Mine's a Pint

It seems that the same does apply for the 1.8l Avensis and the 1.8l Celica GT - as long as it is not a 6 speed gearbox in which case a different engine with more bhp is used.

Furthermore, the articles suggest that there were no notable changes to the 1ZZ-FE engine until late 2008. To me, (with no experience in such matters) that seems a bit long stretch.

joujoujou

Bear in mind that some celicas may have 1.8 VVTL-i engines, which will not fit directly (and obviously there's other engine code - 2ZZ-GE).

Anyway, 2ZZ-GE has intake manifold made of metal, so it's easily noticeable.

And yes, changes applied to 1ZZ during years can be ignored actually. Just remember to keep your old sensors and other small bits and pieces.

Mine's a Pint

Thank a million 'joujoujou'. Precise, concise. Very encouraging news too. My next tasks, to find the right mechanic. Also, locate a good place to pick up a crashed car for the right money.