Inducing a heifer

vanderbadger

folks, have a first time calver, she was due on the 4th unless I recorded ai dates incorrectly, in calf to easy bb, she seemed to hurt her back or something during summer and her walk is slightly off but she is fine and has managed on slats fine all along, no sign of her calving though, she is on straw now as she was struggling to get up in cubicles, she has sprung up in milk and looks farily open at the rear end but no sign of her bones going down, starting to get a bit worried, especially since blues nearly always arrive on time, should i just leave her be or induce her, never had to induce anything before??

reilig

What BB Bull is she carrying to. Some of them bring longer than others? I've seen our vet induce before when there were issues. Its a simple injection but leaves the calf very dopey. What breed is the heifer? I'd never use BB on a first calver but I have a neighbour with 3 BB calves out of heifers this year already - all off BBQ. I'd be nervous with them, but he has only had to assist 1 of them with calving. Your vet would be best placed to advise you methinks - a phone call won't cost anything.

vanderbadger

reilig wrote: »

What BB Bull is she carrying to. Some of them bring longer than others? I've seen our vet induce before when there were issues. Its a simple injection but leaves the calf very dopey. What breed is the heifer? I'd never use BB on a first calver but I have a neighbour with 3 BB calves out of heifers this year already - all off BBQ. I'd be nervous with them, but he has only had to assist 1 of them with calving. Your vet would be best placed to advise you methinks - a phone call won't cost anything.

ya this one is bbq as well, she is a simm heifer, big tall heifer, i also had another first timer calf to bbq and she calved down on time, the calves are small from bbq in fairness but ya its still a bit of a gamble with first timers, i just have a bad feeling about this one, had the vet out the other day and he was going to give me injection but i decided against it hoping she would calf away

reilig

vanderbadger wrote: »

ya this one is bbq as well, she is a simm heifer, big tall heifer, i also had another first timer calf to bbq and she calved down on time, the calves are small from bbq in fairness but ya its still a bit of a gamble with first timers, i just have a bad feeling about this one, had the vet out the other day and he was going to give me injection but i decided against it hoping she would calf away

If i were in your shoes, and he was offering the injection to me, i'd take it. Just make sure that you have beastings or satchets of colostrum in case she doesn't come to her milk - she could be well sprung, but may not release any when the calf goes to suck.

whelan1

my aunt always said when the apple is ripe it will fall:D

vanderbadger

ya i will leave her be i think, i was going back over ai slips in case i got date wrong but i think im ok on that front, if she hasnt calved by thursday i could inject her thurs night and that way she should calf on sat

Bizzum

How many days is she gone?

vanderbadger

ai'd on 28th mar so 283 days would be the 4th jan, blues gestation might even be 281 days not sure

Bizzum

So 289 days today.
I would be inclined to wait, I dont see 289 days as being outrageous.
The fact that she is Sim, she can bring a bit of time.
Several of our cows go over 290 and one has gone 300 and 301 on her last two calves.
Hope your one is lucky for you.

reilig

I have never had a calf off BBQ that was more than 2 days over. Normally the cows calve to the day or sometimes even 1 day before. 6 days over is a lot for him and the fact that the heifer got a hurt during the pregnancy is a major reason to be cautious.

whelan1

but induction can bring its own problems too , the op said the animal is springing in her bag and behind so something is obviously on his way , patience:D

pakalasa

I'd be inclined to wait too, 289 days isnt a long time. The limousin average 290 for example. I had a cow go 310 days or something last year. When the calf does come you wonder what all the fuss was about.;)

Bizzum

291 days today.
Any sign of a calf?
She has to be two days nearer since this thread began.

vanderbadger

Bizzum wrote: »

291 days today.
Any sign of a calf?
She has to be two days nearer since this thread began.

no sign yet anyway , she has filled up another little bit i would think

Bizzum

Thats progress anyway.

leg wax

had a cow go 310 days the other day to ovo, but i have noticed since i have started to calve down lim cows that all the blonde cows are going over by 1o /15 days longer than the lim cows.

vanderbadger

ya she projectile ****es every time she gets up so she must be under a bit of pressure, i wish she would jsut calf at this stage, its a pain in the hole trying to keep an eye on her with work and evrything

pakalasa

Noticed the pins starting to drop on my first cow this evening. She's not due for 2 weeks.
That time of year again. Bit of a lift to see young calves running around again. Even the extra 1/2 hour brighness in the evening is great.

Legwax, how do you find OVO to calve? He's got some scary calving figures!:eek:

Bizzum

The cow we have thet went 300 and 301 days on her last two calves is a Blonde x cow too. And she was carring twins on both occasions!
This year she was moaning and groaning for a month before she calved.

leg wax

pakalasa wrote: »

Noticed the pins starting to drop on my first cow this evening. She's not due for 2 weeks.
That time of year again. Bit of a lift to see young calves running around again. Even the extra 1/2 hour brighness in the evening is great.

Legwax, how do you find OVO to calve? He's got some scary calving figures!:eek:

hes ok on cows that will not throw u grade calves but if you put him on a good cow watch out thats my last one i think and will not be useing him again as i see it as no advantage ,bigger calf does not mean more money so its not worth the worry with him.

pakalasa

leg wax wrote: »

hes ok on cows that will not throw u grade calves but if you put him on a good cow watch out thats my last one i think and will not be useing him again as i see it as no advantage ,bigger calf does not mean more money so its not worth the worry with him.

Well, that makes sense. When he's that hard calving, he shouldnt even be in AI.

Bitten & Hisses

Lads, ye're frightening me now. I had 2 cows calve to EDJ in the last week. Cow #1 calved unassisted without incident. Cow #2 who calved no problem to EDJ last year had enormous difficulty. I just couldn't get the calf's hips out and he died. Cow is still down and will be for at least a few more days, although she's able to move herself around the pen and is generally lively. What worries me is the cow in the next pen. A big Charolais cow, incalf to OVO and gone 289 days. I'm absolutely terrified of what may be in store.

vanderbadger

cow calved this evening, i thought initially the calf was too big to pull and was going for vet, anyway ended up pulling him with a neighbour, nice bull calf, he is ok but Extremely sleepy and dopey, couldnt get the fecker to suck so had to defrost beastings..cow is fine as well

whelan1

happy days

vanderbadger

whelan1 wrote: »

happy days

ya relief to be done with it, one more first timer to go, probably tomorrow or over weekend, wont be sorry to see the end of them for another year

Bigbird1

pakalasa wrote: »

Well, that makes sense. When he's that hard calving, he shouldnt even be in AI.

Dat makes no sense, why shouldn't he be in AI, OVO is prob 1 of the most successful bulls over the last few years,The farmer has the info to hand and its up to them which bull he chooses.

pakalasa

Great!
Did you ever pinch the back of the tongue. It's supposed to get them sucking.
I usually spray a bit of milk on the mouth/nose. The taste/smell gets them going.

@Bigdird1 - Why bring grief on yerself. OVO is the hardest calving bull in AI. Some people might be using him and not realise this. Even Legwax agrees with me.....

Bizzum

vanderbadger wrote: »

cow calved this evening, i thought initially the calf was too big to pull and was going for vet, anyway ended up pulling him with a neighbour, nice bull calf, he is ok but Extremely sleepy and dopey, couldnt get the fecker to suck so had to defrost beastings..cow is fine as well

292 days. Great stuff. Do you use a bucket with a tit on it when your feeding the beastings?

Bizzum

Bigbird1 wrote: »

OVO is prob 1 of the most successful bulls over the last few years

For Me when I think of the most successful BB bull in the last few years I think of EDJ, He bred some show winners. Empire was very successful for the pedigree boys.
I suppose though its how one measures success.
If OVO was successful for you- Keep with him!

Bizzum

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

What worries me is the cow in the next pen. A big Charolais cow, incalf to OVO and gone 289 days. I'm absolutely terrified of what may be in store.

Over the years I lost sleep worrying about this or that cow. I have since come to realise that invariably the one I worry most about will pop out a calf, and another 'sure thing' will break my heart!
Just keep a good eye on her, Knowledge is power, you know how long she's gone, and what she's carrying to, and probably her history.
So your not totally winging it!
Best of luck.

Bigbird1

pakalasa wrote: »

.

@Bigdird1 - Why bring grief on yerself. OVO is the hardest calving bull in AI. Some people might be using him and not realise this. Even Legwax agrees with me.....

I know he is one of the harder calving bulls,but if you want to go for that extra push of power why not use him on cows with good calving ability..if people use him without realising it, its there own fault as OVO has
high reliability figures and this can be seen

bogman_bass

Bizzum wrote: »

For Me when I think of the most successful BB bull in the last few years I think of EDJ,

totally agree. easy calved, suitable for beef or dairy cows, great shape. lovely quite calves.

only down side was he threw black and white calves from dairy cows

vanderbadger

Bizzum wrote: »

292 days. Great stuff. Do you use a bucket with a tit on it when your feeding the beastings?

well sometimes but usually and in this case i just put a big tit on a bottle and it works grand, locked up the cow this morning and got him to suck eventually, 20 times i got the tit in his mouth and 20 times he dropped it but anyway he got a good drink in eventually so he will be grand for another while, he should make a nice calf

Bigbird1

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Lads, ye're frightening me now. I had 2 cows calve to EDJ in the last week. Cow #1 calved unassisted without incident. Cow #2 who calved no problem to EDJ last year had enormous difficulty. I just couldn't get the calf's hips out and he died. Cow is still down and will be for at least a few more days, although she's able to move herself around the pen and is generally lively. What worries me is the cow in the next pen. A big Charolais cow, incalf to OVO and gone 289 days. I'm absolutely terrified of what may be in store.

blue charolais cross is said to cause more difficulty,iv seen this with a neighbuur where EDJ calves came big from CH cows with that extra bone,i hope she calves fine,Best of luck wit her

let us know how you get on

leg wax

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Lads, ye're frightening me now. I had 2 cows calve to EDJ in the last week. Cow #1 calved unassisted without incident. Cow #2 who calved no problem to EDJ last year had enormous difficulty. I just couldn't get the calf's hips out and he died. Cow is still down and will be for at least a few more days, although she's able to move herself around the pen and is generally lively. What worries me is the cow in the next pen. A big Charolais cow, incalf to OVO and gone 289 days. I'm absolutely terrified of what may be in store.

the cow that is down and the cow in the pen were they served the same day, who served them you or ai man, just wondering did the person who did the job put the straws in the right cows, its very strange for edj to do that but not for someone to put in the wrong straw.

Bizzum

leg wax wrote: »

the cow that is down and the cow in the pen were they served the same day, who served them you or ai man, just wondering did the person who did the job put the straws in the right cows, its very strange for edj to do that but not for someone to put in the wrong straw.

Thats an interesting point.
I used to check the straws sometimes and 2 years ago discovered a BB straw with a code I didn't recognise.
It all became clear when a pedigree Charolais heifer had a blue bull calf.
Assisted calving but not outrageous difficult.
Miller of a calf too.
I cant for the life of me recall the AI code on the straw. It was one we never used before.

vanderbadger

Bizzum wrote: »

Thats an interesting point.
I used to check the straws sometimes and 2 years ago discovered a BB straw with a code I didn't recognise.
It all became clear when a pedigree Charolais heifer had a blue bull calf.
Assisted calving but not outrageous difficult.
Miller of a calf too.
I cant for the life of me recall the AI code on the straw. It was one we never used before.

wax i think you said you did your own ai so i suppose its not an issue for you but for anyone getting the ai man would ye trust them completely? I know the guy i use did a cow for me recently and told me it was a particular blue bull but he actually left the metal yoke with the straw on it behind on the wall of the crush and it was a differnt bull when i looked at the straw..it occured to me that he might have a good few straws of a particular bull and wanted to get rid of a few..it could have been a genuine mistake also i suppose

Bizzum

We used to have a big bucket near the crush for the AI man to dicsard the used plastic gloves. This is where you'd find the straw that was used, usually in the glove!

ellewood

leg wax wrote: »

the cow that is down and the cow in the pen were they served the same day, who served them you or ai man, just wondering did the person who did the job put the straws in the right cows, its very strange for edj to do that but not for someone to put in the wrong straw.

was in with an ai man recently fixing a machine for him and another ai man i had sold some hfrs to was there as well so over the tea they came to talking about 1 of their customers who had a cow served recently and he wanted a paticular bb bull and they joked that they hadnt that bull for ages and had been putting another bull in his cows i was a bit pissed off tbh
i had a pb charolais cow calf the end of nov suppossed to be a pb calf but he came like a limo cross -i think anyway- a real smasher of a calf and she calved on her own my ai man is usually very good but not this time..

leg wax

lets just say the ai man is a farmer himself an is useing blue straws as well,you want him to put a good/exspencive straw in your cow,whats stoping him from putting a test blue bull in your cow charge you for the bull ordered keep the bull you wanted for himself and charge himelf for the test bull. the only way he will be caught is if you dna test the calf.

pakalasa

Yep, you should always check the discarded straw.
Would I be right in saying that the imported BB straws dont have the 3 letter AI code on them, only the tag number of the bull, ie a belgian tag?

bogman_bass

Yep Ireland is the only country in the world to use the 3 letter system. any imported straws dont have the coad on them

Bitten & Hisses

leg wax wrote: »

the cow that is down and the cow in the pen were they served the same day, who served them you or ai man, just wondering did the person who did the job put the straws in the right cows, its very strange for edj to do that but not for someone to put in the wrong straw.

That definitely didn't happen, as they were served on different days and I always check the discarded straw when the A.I. man leaves, but I agree with you that it can quite easily happen, either by human error or something more sinister.
Anyway, the cow went into labour Friday night and hadn't calved by Saturday morning, so we had to do a caesarean. Both cow and calf are alive and well, thank God, but the cow took a long time to bond with her calf, mainly due to the fact that she was drugged to the nines! The calf is also sucking everything in sight apart from the paps: He'll go for gates, the cow's front legs, back legs, anything but the paps. to be honest, having to put him sucking a couple of times a day is a small price to pay for the relief of having them both alive and well.

vanderbadger

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

That definitely didn't happen, as they were served on different days and I always check the discarded straw when the A.I. man leaves, but I agree with you that it can quite easily happen, either by human error or something more sinister.
Anyway, the cow went into labour Friday night and hadn't calved by Saturday morning, so we had to do a caesarean. Both cow and calf are alive and well, thank God, but the cow took a long time to bond with her calf, mainly due to the fact that she was drugged to the nines! The calf is also sucking everything in sight apart from the paps: He'll go for gates, the cow's front legs, back legs, anything but the paps. to be honest, having to put him sucking a couple of times a day is a small price to pay for the relief of having them both alive and well.

relief so

Bigbird1

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

That definitely didn't happen, as they were served on different days and I always check the discarded straw when the A.I. man leaves, but I agree with you that it can quite easily happen, either by human error or something more sinister.
Anyway, the cow went into labour Friday night and hadn't calved by Saturday morning, so we had to do a caesarean. Both cow and calf are alive and well, thank God, but the cow took a long time to bond with her calf, mainly due to the fact that she was drugged to the nines! The calf is also sucking everything in sight apart from the paps: He'll go for gates, the cow's front legs, back legs, anything but the paps. to be honest, having to put him sucking a couple of times a day is a small price to pay for the relief of having them both alive and well.

At least there all well,

Was the calf massive??

Bitten & Hisses

Not the beefiest calf I ever saw, but certainly big boned. No way was he coming out alive if we tried to bring him out the normal route

pakalasa

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Not the beefiest calf I ever saw, but certainly big boned. No way was he coming out alive if we tried to bring him out the normal route

This is the OVO calf from the charolais cow, right?

Bitten & Hisses

pakalasa wrote: »

This is the OVO calf from the charolais cow, right?

Correct. Big frame on him, looks like he'll be a bit on the big side, all going well.

RobinBanks

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Correct. Big frame on him, looks like he'll be a bit on the big side, all going well.

Just after seeing this thread. Glad to hear everything worked out well for you. I was talking to a farmer the other day who does his own A.I. He produces exceptional weanlings but at a price. He lost a couple of his best cows and a few calves a couple of years ago. He gave BB's to allot of his CH cows and most of them needed assistance and of course he lost 2 cows, one after an op went wrong and an other that couldn't get up after calving. He has about 80 cows and the majority are LM's. He doesn't have many problems calving these down to BB bulls. He advised me to be very careful when giving BB's to CH's. He has stopped giving them after his own experiences. He used OVO and DEP i think.

I had one myself this year. A FHZ calf from a CF52. Now I had no bother but it was a small heifer calf. I was relieved it wasn't a bull after what he had told me.

Bodacious

Any figures/experiences on new imported BB bull SEU yet?

Getting worried now on BB X CH cross

leg wax

Bodacious wrote: »

Any figures/experiences on new imported BB bull SEU yet?

Getting worried now on BB X CH cross

who sells him? don't panic think positive no negative vibes or the calf will sence it :D have faith he will come out you will be happy and then he will get something or do something to piss you off.