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Deer Renewals and HCAP questionnaire
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19-04-2017 5:04pm#1As seen on the NPWS Website-
Guidance to the Application Form for a licence to hunt deer for the 2017/18 Hunting Season
Part 1: Personal Details
Please ensure that your full name, address contact details and date of birth are completed in this part. All applicants must be 16 years or over.
Proposed Mandatory Certification of Hunters
The application form seeks information on whether you have a Certificate of Competency appropriate for the Republic of Ireland such as the ‘Hunter Competence Assessment Programme (HCAP)’ or equivalent in respect of firearms and matters relating to wild deer. This question is asked in response to a recommendation to the Department that certification from an accredited source in knowledge of wild deer species, disease recognition, management, culling and safe methods of control, together with marksmanship and safe usage and storage of firearms, be a mandatory requirement before the grant of a licence to hunt wild deer; and that mandatory certification be introduced on a phased basis over a five year period commencing on the 1st day of January 2018 for existing holders of deer hunting licences, and with immediate effect from the same date for all new applicants for deer hunting licences.
Part 2: Land Information
Please tick the appropriate box to indicate if you
A. are the owner of the lands and entitled to the sporting rights over these lands,
B. are a guest, invitee, servant or agent of the landowner(s),
C. have leased the sporting rights
D. are a member of a gun club or game association whose members are entitled to hunt deer over the lands described.
If you have lands leased from Coillte or have any other leasing arrangement:
(a) You must show written proof that the lease is valid for the 2017/2018 season,
or
(b) If you intend hunting on a Coillte letting which is not in your name, you must provide a permit or letter from Coillte confirming that you are entitled to hunt on those lands.
If you are obliged to retain your original Coillte permit, please provide a photocopy. Please ensure the permit is both signed, stamped and dated by Coillte.
You must complete the SCHEDULE with all details in relation to the lands, including County, Townland, number of acres (minimum 100 acres), Landowner Details (in full) and the correct Folio number. Folio numbers are subject to checks, and can be obtained by visiting www.landdirect.ie (proceed as guest user) or contacting the Property Registration Authority at 0761 0001610 or 051 303000. Please be aware that 100 acres (42 hectares) is the minimum amount of land required for a deer hunting licence. If you are not the landowner, you will need written permission, signed and dated by the landowner for the current (2017/18) hunting season. A separate form for landowner permissions is enclosed and can be used if required, though you should ensure that a separate form is completed for each permission.
Part 3: Firearms Details
All details relating to your firearm must be completed. Another issue you need to be aware of is the type of firearm and ammunition that may be used to hunt deer species. The Regulations governing this, S.I. No. 239/1977 (Wildlife Act, 1976 (Firearms and Ammunition) Regulations, 1977 specify that you can only use a centre-fire rifle of not less than .22 calibre with a muzzle energy of not less than 1,700 foot pounds to hunt deer species and such rifles must use bullets weighing not less than 60 grains. It is important that you comply with these requirements otherwise your application for a deer hunting licence will be refused. Although a .22 calibre with a muzzle energy of not less than 1,700 foot pounds is the legal minimum requirement a rifle with a minimum calibre of .240 as a more appropriate firearm for shooting deer is recommended. All non-resident applicants must submit a copy of their current European Firearms Pass with the application form.
Part 4: Returns
If you previously held a deer hunting licence, this part must be completed for the season you last held a licence and hunted, even if the return is zero. You need to state the County where the deer were shot and the number of each species shot and the total number shot in that season. First time applicants should note that a return will be required at the end of each hunting season.
Part 5: Declaration
The declaration must be signed by yourself and a witness and dated.
Checklist:
All personal details filled in
Copy European Firearms Pass attached (if applicable)
Landowner permission form(s) signed, dated and attached
Firearm details complete
Returns for previous seasons completed (if applicable)
Declaration, signed, dated & witnessed
Questionnaire for the IDMF
It is preferable if you could contact us by email at wildlifelicence@ahg.gov.ie or alternatively by phone at 01 8883298, 8883275 or 8883249
We will contact you if there is any query with any form you submit to us.
Details, including the application form, guidance document and the landowner permission form, are available at https://www.npws.ie/licences/hunting/deer-hunting-licences-20172018-season
Wildlife Licensing Unit
National Parks and Wildlife Service
7 Ely Place
Dublin 2
D02 TW98
April 20170
Comments
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Another proposal, but this time for everyone to HAVE to have the HCAP or trained hunter course or both.
So to put it mildly pay €250 for the trained hunter course to the NARGC and, how much is the HCAP now? €150 - €200 to the Irish Deer Society.
According to the above they want it brought in, on a 5 year phased basis, from January 2018. Again while not law another proposal. Who was this one from?Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County
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Another proposal, but this time for everyone to HAVE to have the HCAP or trained hunter course or both.
So to put it mildly pay €250 for the trained hunter course to the NARGC and, how much is the HCAP now? €150 - €200 to the Irish Deer Society.
According to the above they want it brought in, on a 5 year phased basis, from January 2018. Again while not law another proposal. Who was this one from?
Starting to look like they are in bed together. We will catch people for both associations by making them do a course. We really are getting sold out!!!0 -
Someone is doing something to someone. Mandatory courses and a ban on night shooting!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm not opposed to training courses, but ones that, frankly, are not up to par serve only to raise money, and in my opinion are not courses. It's a money printing machine. Plus anyone with a HCAP that thinks they're safe, you'll find you have to do the trained hunter too.
Given the amount of deer licenses, allowing for people that have the HCAP/THC, and the average cost of the course you're looking at around €2 million over the next 5 years in revenue.Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County
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Someone is doing something to someone. Mandatory courses and a ban on night shooting!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm not opposed to training courses, but ones that, frankly, are not up to par serve only to raise money, and in my opinion are not courses. It's a money printing machine. Plus anyone with a HCAP that thinks they're safe, you'll find you have to do the trained hunter too.
Given the amount of deer licenses, allowing for people that have the HCAP/THC, and the average cost of the course you're looking at around €2 million over the next 5 years in revenue.
This really is getting worse and worse. I'm gonna e mail the nargc about this now and get them raise it tomorrow too!!!!0 -
The NARGC are the only ones running the Trained hunter/meat handling course. At least the only one accepted by the Food Safety Board.
Don't see them being opposed to a few thousand lads having to do their course at over €300 a head.Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County
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The NARGC are the only ones running the Trained hunter/meat handling course. At least the only one accepted by the Food Safety Board.
Don't see them being opposed to a few thousand lads having to do their course at over €300 a head.
As far as i know this has been stopped for the last year or so and has not been ran0 -
Probably not,
but Scroll to the bottom.Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County
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For what its worth I have just copied/plagiarised the following from the inland fisheries regarding Salmon and sea trout Tagging and in my view should be a very easy model to implement by NPWS regarding Deer hunting:
Please replace the following words:
Angler
Hunter
Salmon
Deer
Inland Fisheries
NPWS
Rod license
Hunting License
The NARGC can change the definition of Commercial Hunting to include sale of venison to a game dealer
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2. OBTAINING A LICENCE[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Anglers can obtain their licence from Inland Fisheries Ireland, any rod licence distributor or online at www.salmonlicences.ie. On payment of the rod licence fee, the angler will be given:[/font]
[*]A logbook.
[*]3 gill tags where a salmon rod (annual) ordinary, juvenile, district or 21-day ordinary licence is issued up until 11th May and a further 7 gill tags (issued in lots of 3 or 4) from the period 12th May to 30th Sept up to a maximum of 10 gill tags in total provided they demonstrate that they have completed their logbook appropriately.
[*]1 gill tag where a one day ordinary licence is issued up until the close of the season.
[*]A business reply envelope for return of the logbook and unused tags to the relevant Inland Fisheries Ireland office.
[*]A plastic wallet for the logbook.
[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3. THE TAG[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The tag to be used by anglers is a blue plastic self-locking device (an additional brown tag is also required for certain rivers – (refer to Table 1 – Open Fisheries 2017) to ensure angling quotas are not exceeded. Contact the relevant IFI office for details on how to obtain brown tags). Each blue tag is embossed with a code identifying where the tag was issued, the year in which the tag can be used, a security code and a tag serial number.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Anglers should carefully note the following concerning the use of these tags:[/font]
[*]These tags shall not be re-used.
[*]One tag shall be attached to each salmon (any size) and sea trout (over 40 cm) caught and retained.
[*]Tags must be attached immediately on landing the fish.
[*]Tags shall be attached through the gill opening and mouth of the fish and securely double locked around the gill cover.
[*]Additional tags shall be issued on presentation of logbook information showing that the licence holder has used the gill tags issued to him or her, subject to bag limits.
[*]Lost and accidentally destroyed tags may be replaced upon presentation of a signed declaration completed by the angler and signed by an Authorised Officer of Inland Fisheries Ireland.
[*]Gill tags shall only be removed from the fish at the time of processing in accordance with the Tagging Scheme Regulations. For the purposes of this scheme processing includes: smoking, marinating or cooking the fish, gutting and freezing the fish or cutting any steaks, cutlets or portions of the fish.
[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]4. THE LOGBOOK[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]On receipt of tags the angler will also receive a logbook. Details of the gill tags issued to an angler will be entered into the angler’s logbook by the issuing agent.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Each angler shall:[/font]
[*]Record all details of their catch in their logbook immediately after tagging the fish.
[*]Make a catch record even if the fish is released (including kelts and baggots).
[*]Record details of any lost or damaged tags.
[*]Declare lost or damaged logbooks to Inland Fisheries Ireland.
[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]5. RETURNING LOGBOOKS AND UNUSED TAGS[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In accordance with the Wild Salmon and Sea Trout Tagging Regulations anglers are required by law to return their completed logbook (even if there is no catch recorded) and all unused tags to the issuing office of Inland Fisheries Ireland by the 19th October annually. A business reply envelope is provided for this purpose. Anglers are required to obtain proof of postage and to retain such proof for 12 months.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]6. PROHIBITION ON THE SALE OF ROD CAUGHT SALMON OR SEA TROUT[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Anglers are prohibited from selling salmon (any size) or sea trout (any size) caught by rod and line.[/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]These guidelines have been prepared for information purposes only and do not purport to be a legal interpretation. The holder of a rod licence should familiarise himself or herself with section 69 of the Inland Fisheries Act, 2010 (No. 10 of 2010), the current Wild Salmon and Sea Trout Tagging Scheme Regulations and the Salmon and Sea Trout Conservation Bye-laws.[/font]0 -
The way things are going it'll be added, ALONG with the other changes.
Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County
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The problem in ireland is there are too many characters looking to be head honchio and make themselves a sly few bob on the side.0
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I think i paid more than that a few years ago to do it. Crazy money but i done it for the education, wasnt till i was on it i twigged it was a bit of a scam, game dealers on it , lads being brought off to separate rooms to carry out the test.The NARGC are the only ones running the Trained hunter/meat handling course. At least the only one accepted by the Food Safety Board.
Don't see them being opposed to a few thousand lads having to do their course at over €300 a head.0 -
Should a boycot of filling out that question on the form be organised ?0
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I won't be filling it in as it's not a legal requirement and with it being a question to determine whether the proposal has merit the more than sign it the more strength it'll give to the proposal.
Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County
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Hardly surprising when you consider where it was held and who was involved in the running of it. Needless to say, it's not being held there any moretikkahunter wrote: »I think i paid more than that a few years ago to do it. Crazy money  but i done it for the education, wasnt till i was on it i twigged it was a bit of a scam, game dealers on it , lads being brought off to separate rooms to carry out the test.0 -
cookimonster wrote: »...................., together with marksmanship and safe usage and storage of firearms, be a mandatory requirement before the grant of a licence to hunt wild deer;...................
This bit has me concerned.
This is the same nonsense that the SC tried a couple of years back. Graduated licensing, schools for training, centres of "excellence", etc, etc. IOW another money making scheme.
The marksmanship bit is also a concern. We brought this up before when we spoke of certification of marksmanship. What level is acceptable? Who runs it? How are they competent to run it? Is a newbie expected to be as good as a seasoned shooter?
IOW it's unworkable.
As for the safe usage and storage. The competency part of your FCA1 covers the usage, and the Firearms Act including SI 307/2009 covers the storage. So what has storage got to do with hunting deer.Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County
If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.
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Here's another nail in the coffin probably needs another thread but it's from the same crowd or at least the Deer Alliance as they have it on their page:
Here's the quote from the deer license application form:
The application form seeks information on whether you have a Certificate of Competency appropriate for the Republic of Ireland such as the ‘Hunter Competence Assessment Programme (HCAP)’ or equivalent in respect of firearms and matters relating to wild deer. This question is asked in response to a recommendation to the Department that certification from an accredited source in knowledge of wild deer species, disease recognition, management, culling and safe methods of control, together with marksmanship and safe usage and storage of firearms, be a mandatory requirement before the grant of a licence to hunt wild deer; and that mandatory certification be introduced on a phased basis over a five year period commencing on the 1st day of January 2018 for existing holders of deer hunting licences, and with immediate effect from the same date for all new applicants for deer hunting licences.
Just to add petrol to the fire!!
VIOLATING A WHOLE BUNCH of EU law there right off!!! You CANNOT use under EU law sole competancy of a country requirements to exclude all others .IOW EG we cant say a Rumanian drivers liscense will not be recognised in Ireland for whatever reason.If you live in Ireland and Romania,both liscenses are interchangeable along with residency requirements.
As in this case, the Irish cant just say sorry a German hunting liscense,or the UK BASC cert is null and void and you MUST have the IRISH only and very expensive and quite frankly, rubbish , HCAP. This is one I'd really like to see them get badly burned on.Satay in your Coilte forests,and leave the rest of us alone."If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."
Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "
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cavan shooter wrote: »For what its worth I have just copied/plagiarised the following from the inland fisheries regarding Salmon and sea trout Tagging and in my view should be a very easy model to implement by NPWS regarding Deer hunting:
"Holy Mary! What is this??What is this SHT??" As DI Hoffmann so famously said in Full Metal Jacket .
NEVER SUGGEST to ANY IRISH group ,especially a govt that there is fees or money in something.You will not be shooting or fishing within a decade unless you are the winner of the lottery to be able to afford a liscense or worse ,the "administration fee" to issue it..
Also,on the salmon issue.The Shannon has for the first time in its history got a rod fishing ban.Lads are still fishing it in defiance of it,and not that they will catch much anywayas IWI are about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike,and I live about 200 meters from the tailrace and where the old shannon meet,and every night at around 3am you can hear outboards throttled back and working the tailrace by lads putting out gill nets and it never was the fishermen or the drift men down in Coonagh.It is a dirty big power station called Ardnacrusha with an utter pants fish pass and a zero intrest in working as is their mandate to perserve the salmon and eel stocks that their giant mincers aka turbines destroy. For those with an intrest,have a look at on FB old river shannon trust page.run by a neighbour of mine and pointing out glaring obvious truths.
In short,do we need a utter clusterfuk system like this applied to deer hunting here as well by govt bodies or our own with vested intrests??
WHAT is this godawful OBSESSION with tags in the deer hunting circles these days?
Do you not realise this is the dumbest and will be the most expensive and cheaply executed idea that we will pay the MOST for.It will be the most expensive to operate with all the talking heads and the product we get to use will the most cheapest option,like our gun liscenses,not fit for purpose?Then create MORE paperwork with log books and whatever else?? WHY do we insist on making life more difficult for ourselves for no purpose.Tags will be faked and it wont stop poaching either. Our system is not totally broken ,it needs enforcement more than anything and some tweaking,not a complete expensive rebuild and more laws that no one will obey anyway."If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."
Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "
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This issue has nothing what so ever to do with deer poaching and please stop telling us about tags or anything else.
Plain and simple this is about a number of individuals creating a situation where that can profit by holding training courses or providing a place to load ammunition. They are simply playing up to IFA. NPWS AND GARDAI for support so they are in a position to profit in time.
A lot has been said about challenging the top levels of our representative bodies, well when you do it can be a very FN lonely place.0 -
One thing for sure.Whom ever is responsible for this night shooting ban and this heap of bull manure,should be found out and run out of the shooting organisations on a rail..As Cass said it is now time to run the bus over these solo runners with an eye on their bank accounts rather than the well being of the sport.:mad:
"If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."
Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "
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I am not disagreeing with you but if I had a pound for everytime that was said only for some lap dog to speak up in their defence.:mad:Grizzly 45 wrote: »One thing for sure.Whom ever is responsible for this night shooting ban and this heap of bull manure,should be found out and run out of the shooting organisations on a rail..As Cass said it is now time to run the bus over these solo runners with an eye on their bank accounts rather than the well being of the sport.:mad:0 -
And it'll happen now too. From the "it won't effect me" to the "Whats wrong with asking for courses". It's already started.
People are focusing so intently on the courses themselves, and not on who is pushing for them and why. Think about it. No shooting at night, courses for deer licenses, fees for deer licenses, fees for marksmanship courses.
Watch this space for an announcement of a school of excellence, training academy, or some other such nonsense. Conveniently set up just before some new law comes into place. Also for the new "companies" registering to provide the courses for meat handling.Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County
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That has really come to light in the past few days.When you see whats involed in DSC1 , where game handling is part of it , it runs for 3 days on a nice shooting estate and no one complains about it .We sat in a freezing cold empy warehouse in gorey , when it came to the written exam i could barely hold the pen my hads where that cold ..that is not one bit of a lie .We got a poxy chicken curry for lunch in some **** hole coffee shop at the entrance of the business park. I remember thinking after , i just got rode.wirehairmax wrote: »
Hardly surprising when you consider where it was held and who was involved in the running of it. Needless to say, it's not being held there any moretikkahunter wrote: »I think i paid more than that a few years ago to do it. Crazy money  but i done it for the education, wasnt till i was on it i twigged it was a bit of a scam, game dealers on it , lads being brought off to separate rooms to carry out the test.0 -
No guys I think pushing for a proper tagging system is the way to go with a nominal fee of €15 per tag. Let the money go back into conservation and other bits including the policing of anti poaching patrols....€15 is a cheap way of filling the freezer and I strongly believe that Deer stalkers would have no bother spending this to protect their sport after all a lot of people will spend more on Coilte leases and trips to Scotland.....
I strongly belive the govt should know that this is a viable option open to them and should be seriously explored it should be put to the NARGC heads at the next GB meeting to be put to the NPWS and the Govt.
This opinion is also driven by the if you want to **** me over I'll do my level best to **** you over Irish mentality that is hiding in us all.....and is coming out this morning in me. (evil laugh). ...0 -
Most target shooters are or were avid hunters, so why would they want a law like this enacted. Back in the day when I was shooting deer, it was governed by a small group of elite shooters called the Leinster branch of the Irish deer society. These people always wanted exclusive rights to deer shooting and stood on anybody's toes as they thought were their rights. Most of us eventually found a few friendly farmers and a low-cost lease from the dept and got our deer permits. Just have my theories as to what's going on based on 4 decades of experience. Curious to see how correct I am.
This is exactly what this is about and not poaching, these vested parties what the ordinary shooter out of the way so they can take over and like most things in life it's about money. They want to continue bringing foreign shooters to make money and want the deer population not to be controlled to make plenty,
What these guys are doing they-are leasing shooting rights of woodland etc and now want to take over the green land around these from the farmer and get rid of the opposition. We have a serious deer problem and TB on inside lands and the forestry around us is taken by 6 guys from two counties away for big money and all the neighbour have had serious run ins with them over trespassing on to green land and when they meet any shooters they tell them to clear off they have the shooting rights to all adjoining lands.
All this is money making for the gun ranges to force the genuine gun into doing a DOE for to keep gun.0 -
Sheep breeder wrote: »All this is money making for the gun ranges to force the genuine gun into doing a DOE for to keep gun.
I think you'll find that these proposals don't have anything to do with gun ranges.0 -
BattleCorp wrote: »I think you'll find that these proposals don't have anything to do with gun ranges.
In the long run it could!!!
Let's say this and the recommendation on your deer licence comes into force. A lot of people won't bother doing hcap so they can't get their reason to have their gun as deer shooting.
Only option left is join gun range or give up their guns!!!
Now i hope it doesn't come to that but it is a possibility0 -
grassroot1 wrote: »This issue has nothing what so ever to do with deer poaching and please stop telling us about tags or anything else.
Plain and simple this is about a number of individuals creating a situation where that can profit by holding training courses or providing a place to load ammunition. They are simply playing up to IFA. NPWS AND GARDAI for support so they are in a position to profit in time.
A lot has been said about challenging the top levels of our representative bodies, well when you do it can be a very FN lonely place.
That's exactly what's happening. It's being set up so a small number of individuals can profit by setting up these courses and they will push for statutory status so everybody has to do a course for a gun license, deer permit, lamping etc etc
These individuals are also promoting some form of insurance fund in direct opposition to the nargc and have already been heard at a gun dog meeting promoting this.
Most of us know who these individuals are, but due to their litigatious nature cannot risk being sued for one wrong word.0 -
cavan shooter wrote: »No guys I think pushing for a proper tagging system is the way to go
For what purpose? To stop poaching? Won't work, easily sidestepped and poaching will continue as it is.
End result, more restrictions on you and me, same level of poaching. Why would we invite that on ourselves?0 -
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Tags are not the answer, not for everybody anyway. Enforcement is the issue with poaching. In fairness to the NPWS, they do not have the resources to cover remote areas 24/7. Its at the door of the game dealers is where you're going to get them. There are only 5-6 game dealers in the entire country, so thats where the focus should be. The only people who should have tags are the guys wheeling in deer to the dealers.0
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