Two-year-old boy shoots himself dead with father's gun

bear1 · 22-01-2015 10:33am #1

So another day and another story comes up in the US about a child finding their parent's gun and accidentally shooting themself.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11361827/Two-year-old-boy-shoots-himself-dead-with-fathers-gun.html

Poor kid.
What comes to my mind is that AFAIK guns have a safety feature, click it on and the gun wont fire.
So how come all of these guns seem to have it turned off? Why keep a loaded gun in a glove box which you then leave a 2 year old in to roam about?
I particularly liked this quote from the police:

"It's just one of those things that happens where everything lined up the wrong way where we had a 2½-year-old that was able to take a gun, pick it up, turn it around, and he shot himself dead center in the middle of the chest"

Making it sound like a routine accident.
The father said that the gun was secure... well if a 2 year old can get to a loaded gun in an unlocked glove box then how is it even remotely secure?
They just don't seem to be able to learn, it just simply becomes a case of "someone else's child".

seamus · 22-01-2015 10:39am

This is American gun culture.

Apparently you need to have a loaded weapon accessible at all times, because if you do the smart thing and keep it unloaded and locked in a heavy box then you won't be able to point it at terrorists and say, "pew pew".

Hopefully death was instant for the poor little guy and he didn't suffer.

a) a loaded weapon left completely accessible in the car
b) a 2 year child playing on their own inside a car

Parents are idiots. They don't deserve this tragedy, but it's entirely their own fault and they should blame themselves for the rest of their lives.

bear1 · 22-01-2015 10:43am

seamus wrote: »

This is American gun culture.

Apparently you need to have a loaded weapon accessible at all times, because if you do the smart thing and keep it unloaded and locked in a heavy box then you won't be able to point it at terrorists and say, "pew pew".

Hopefully death was instant for the poor little guy and he didn't suffer.

a) a loaded weapon left completely accessible in the car
b) a 2 year child playing on their own inside a car

Parents are idiots. They don't deserve this tragedy, but it's entirely their own fault and they should blame themselves for the rest of their lives.

From what I've been reading on other sites the child more or less died instantly - shot in the chest at such a small body would say around the heart area to me. DOA anyway.
The last bolded part - bit harsh but very true.
You'd nearly think they'd make a law that yes you can have a gun, but the moment you have a kid then you surrender it.
May save a few lives per year... but I imagine the right to have a fully loaded 0.380 calibre gun at arms length is just too good to pass up.

seamus · 22-01-2015 10:46am

bear1 wrote: »

You'd nearly think they'd make a law that yes you can have a gun, but the moment you have a kid then you surrender it.
May save a few lives per year... but I imagine the right to have a fully loaded 0.380 calibre gun at arms length is just too good to pass up.

I have a completely baseless suspicion that the rate of gun ownership actually increases among parents, as they feel they require some "extra" level of protection within the home.

Gyalist · 22-01-2015 10:47am

The mother called 911 to say her 5-year-old boy shot his baby brother with a paintball gun.

But it wasn't a paintball gun. It was a .22-caliber Magnum revolver. And the 9-month-old boy didn't survive.

Authorities are trying to figure out what led to Monday's shooting in Elmo, in the northwest corner of Missouri.

"At this point foul play is not suspected, and it appears at this time that the shooting was accidental," the Nodaway County Sheriff's Office said.

Sheriff Darren White told CNN affiliate KCTV that the baby was in a playpen when his brother found the gun lying around a bed.

When emergency crews arrived, they found the infant had been shot in the head. The child was flown to Children's Mercy Hospital in Kansas City, Missouri, where he was pronounced dead, the station reported.

CNN

Unfortunately just another day in the U.S. where an average of seven kids per day are killed by guns.

steddyeddy · 22-01-2015 10:51am

seamus wrote: »

This is American gun culture.

Apparently you need to have a loaded weapon accessible at all times, because if you do the smart thing and keep it unloaded and locked in a heavy box then you won't be able to point it at terrorists and say, "pew pew".

Hopefully death was instant for the poor little guy and he didn't suffer.

a) a loaded weapon left completely accessible in the car
b) a 2 year child playing on their own inside a car

Parents are idiots. They don't deserve this tragedy, but it's entirely their own fault and they should blame themselves for the rest of their lives.

But Seamus you don't understand. What if the car got hijacked on the way to the shops. Aka American siege culture therefore I need a gun response.

bear1 · 22-01-2015 10:51am

seamus wrote: »

I have a completely baseless suspicion that the rate of gun ownership actually increases among parents, as they feel they require some "extra" level of protection within the home.

Probably more fact than baseless.
Another story has crepted up today of another unarmed black man being shot dead by white police.
Syria would be safer at this point.

Captain Chaos · 22-01-2015 10:51am

Not all guns have a manual safety.

Two very popular makes of handguns don't have them as standard. Glocks (which most American police forces and FBI and the PSNI use) and SIG pistols.

If a one of these guns is loaded it's easy to fire. Common sense says not to store ammo and guns in the same location. BUt then you have the self defence people who always keep a weapon loaded.

bear1 · 22-01-2015 10:52am

steddyeddy wrote: »

But Seamus you don't understand. What if the car got hijacked on the way to the shops. Aka American siege culture therefore I need a gun response.

And by armed IS militants... sure you'd need the gun then wouldn't ya.

steddyeddy · 22-01-2015 10:52am

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Not all guns have a manual safety.

Two very popular makes of handguns don't have them as standard. Glocks (which most American police forces and FBI and the PSNI use) and SIG pistols.

If a gun is loaded it's easy to fire. Common sense says not to store ammo and guns in the same location. BUt then you have the self defence people who always keep a weapon loaded.

What idiot with a kid buys a gun without manual safety.

bear1 · 22-01-2015 10:54am

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Not all guns have a manual safety.

Two very popular makes of handguns don't have them as standard. Glocks (which most American police forces and FBI and the PSNI use) and SIG pistols.

If a one of these guns is loaded it's easy to fire. Common sense says not to store ammo and guns in the same location. BUt then you have the self defence people who always keep a weapon loaded.

I tried Googling the gun in that situation but can't really find anything.
As you said, common sense would be to have the ammo stored elsewhere or at the very least put the gun in a locked container.
The problem here however is you need to have common sense.

Harry Palmr · 22-01-2015 10:56am

Its like there's an arms race or something....

tomtucker81 · 22-01-2015 10:58am

steddyeddy wrote: »

What idiot with a kid buys a gun without manual safety.

AFAIK, guns like glock and sig sauer pistols that are popular with law enforcement or military do not have safety, they are commonly known as police specials.
The reason behind this is that any if such person draws their firearm, they are not concerned about the safety, i.e. they have drawn the gun to shoot someone.

Just for clarity, I'm not aware if such pistols available to the public come with safety.

Akrasia · 22-01-2015 11:14am

Poor kid. I have a 20 month old daughter and we don't even leave plastic cutlery where she can get her hands on it, ever mind loaded guns.

dodderangler · 22-01-2015 11:18am

When are they gonna fcukin learn. Guns are to be stored in a locked gun safe and nowhere else. Simple as. I got my licence on the grounds that my firearm is stored safely in a gun safe and safe is to be bolted to the floored.
Americans they really are brain dead.
Poor kid

Kirby · 22-01-2015 11:25am

steddyeddy wrote: »

What idiot with a kid buys a gun without manual safety.

steddyeddy wrote: »

What idiot with a kid buys a gun.

steddyeddy wrote: »

What idiot buys a gun.

I've amended your post in stages to make it more accurate. You will find the final draft to be the definitive one.

You are welcome.

seamus · 22-01-2015 11:26am

dodderangler wrote: »

When are they gonna fcukin learn. Guns are to be stored in a locked gun safe and nowhere else. Simple as. I got my licence on the grounds that my firearm is stored safely in a gun safe and safe is to be bolted to the floored.

But if a terrorist or the King of England broke into your house at night, tied up your children and started raping your wife, how are you going to protect your family with your gun locked in a safe?

Cookie_Dough · 22-01-2015 11:32am

This is tragic for the child and the familly. However if the family were storing the gun there temporarily while moving house, as the article says, why was it still loaded?
Also, why was a 2 year old left alone and unsupervised in the front of a car? Sad to read but unfortunately becoming more common due to US gun culture.

dodderangler · 22-01-2015 11:37am

seamus wrote: »

But if a terrorist or the King of England broke into your house at night, tied up your children and started raping your wife, how are you going to protect your family with your gun locked in a safe?

Possibly most retarded question ever
Well done sir

Menas · 22-01-2015 11:37am

The Pro Gun lobby will be along shortly to ensure this debate is balanced.

In the mean time - its the kid I feel sorry for. Terrible thing to have to live with. Same with that supermarket case a couple of weeks ago.

Menas · 22-01-2015 11:38am

dodderangler wrote: »

Possibly most retarded question ever
Well done sir

I am sensing a hint of sarcasm that may have been missed?

Captain Chaos · 22-01-2015 11:42am

There was the story yesterday about the 5 year old who accidently shot his 9 month old brother in the head killing him. Their mother who made the 911 call stated that he had been shot with a paintball gun out of fear. So sad.

hfallada · 22-01-2015 11:45am

If you live in rural US and are 1 hour from a police station. If you have an armed intruder in your home. You are basically ****ed. It's easy for us in a pretty gun free country to say guns are evil etc. But if you live in the us. They are necessary.

Im not really pro guns. But if I lived in the us. I would have a gun in my house. You only hear the horror stories about guns in the us. You don't hear about people who defended themselves against an armed intruder.

There was a long thread on reddit about a women who had a mental stalker. She moved house and he found her. She couldn't get a restraining order against him. He threatened her family and threatened to kill her bf and eventually rape her. She brought a gun and when he entered her house one night. She shot him. What would have happened if she didn't have a gun?

weisses · 22-01-2015 11:47am

The mother called 911 to say her 5-year-old boy shot his baby brother with a paintball gun.

But it wasn't a paintball gun. It was a .22-caliber Magnum revolver. And the 9-month-old boy didn't survive.

Authorities are trying to figure out what led to Monday's shooting in Elmo, in the northwest corner of Missouri.

"At this point foul play is not suspected, and it appears at this time that the shooting was accidental," the Nodaway County Sheriff's Office said.

Sheriff Darren White told CNN affiliate KCTV that the baby was in a playpen when his brother found the gun lying around a bed.

When emergency crews arrived, they found the infant had been shot in the head. The child was flown to Children's Mercy Hospital in Kansas City, Missouri, where he was pronounced dead, the station reported.

Using US logic/politics they probably will ban paintball guns

K4t · 22-01-2015 11:58am

hfallada wrote: »

If you live in rural US and are 1 hour from a police station. If you have an armed intruder in your home. You are basically ****ed. It's easy for us in a pretty gun free country to say guns are evil etc. But if you live in the us. They are necessary.

Im not really pro guns. But if I lived in the us. I would have a gun in my house. You only hear the horror stories about guns in the us. You don't hear about people who defended themselves against an armed intruder.

There was a long thread on reddit about a women who had a mental stalker. She moved house and he found her. She couldn't get a restraining order against him. He threatened her family and threatened to kill her bf and eventually rape her. She brought a gun and when he entered her house one night. She shot him. What would have happened if she didn't have a gun?

This. It's too easy to only look at cases like this involving complete stupidity on behalf of the parents.

I live in a rural area of Ireland myself (closest neighbour approx. half a mile) and I often carry a knife or a hammer on me when outside the house at night. I don't have a gun as the chances of an intruder having a gun are quite slim, but it is all about proportionate response. In the US, an intruder may well have a gun, several even. And the older you are the less able you are of defending yourself so a gun is required. Look at the case of Padraig Nally for example, an embarrassment to our justice system that he served time behind bars.

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 22-01-2015 12:02pm

Could they legislate more harshly for people who don't keep the gun at least moderately secure? Say 10 years in prison if your child manages to shoot themselves? Or is that taking too much freedom?

the_monkey · 22-01-2015 12:05pm

But but but ... what about the 2nd amendment ...

:rolleyes:

bear1 · 22-01-2015 12:19pm

dodderangler wrote: »

Possibly most retarded question ever
Well done sir

I think Seamus was being a tad sarcastic.

BattleCorp · 22-01-2015 12:23pm

Kirby wrote: »

I've amended your post in stages to make it more accurate. You will find the final draft to be the definitive one.

You said " What idiot buys a gun"?

I am such a person but I would hardly consider myself to be an idiot.

Actually I have 3 guns, all of which are used for target shooting.

I keep the guns in a safe and ammo in another safe. The guns are only used on an authorised range and put back into the safe when not being used.

How am I an idiot?

Canis Lupus · 22-01-2015 12:40pm

seamus wrote: »

But if a terrorist or the King of England broke into your house at night, tied up your children and started raping your wife, how are you going to protect your family with your gun locked in a safe?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=495_1421561814

Captain Chaos · 22-01-2015 12:45pm

weisses wrote: »

Using US logic/politics they probably will ban paintball guns

Thing is a paintball gun fired point blank at the temple of a 9 month old would have a good chance of killing as the skull is still not fused at that age.

Here in Ireland they are classed as firearms under law and are illegal to own without licence.

Two-year-old boy shoots himself dead with father's gun

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