Respect for the religious + religion - where does it start/stop?

Shrap wrote: »

Example: I used to go to mass every year on the occasion of my son's school mates' confirmation as a mark of respect to them. It's a very close knit community and even though I am an affirmed atheist, I felt it was important to acknowledge that this was a big day for my children's friends. The last one I attended, the children were each up on the pulpit saying a little "Thank you Lord for....blah de blah", but one child came out with something along the lines of "Thank you Lord for showing our teachers the importance of keeping our faith strong in our school" and to this day I am angry at myself for not standing up there and then and walking out.

The respect I had to show at that point (to the children making their confirmation and to my own children, that I didn't make a show of them) was severely tested, due to the lack of respect that those words were showing to me and my children. I felt forced into showing respect for words that directly and negatively effected me and mine, and so I've never been back. Not even for funerals. I will go to the house and pay my respects, and to a removal, but never again to a church.

How do you mean you "used to go to mass every year on the occasion of your son's school mates' confirmation"? Confirmation happens only once, so I don't understand how you could go every year.

Leaving that aside, even if it was only once, I don't understand why you would go. If you're not a Roman Catholic, and your children weren't involved in the ceremony in any way, why would you go along?

And what I really don't get is how you could take offence is a child invoking the teachers and what they had done to develop the childrens' faith. Since teachers were involved in confirmation preparation, and were mentioned in that way, I'm presuming it's a Roman Catholic school. What the hell did you expect? YOU attended a Roman Catholic ceremony in which teachers in a Roman Catholic school prepared their Roman Catholic students for confirmation, and YOU were offended because that fact was acknowledged during the ceremony?

You were the outsider there. You sent your children to a Roman Catholic school, attended a Roman Catholic event, and then took offence at something that is part and parcel of Roman Catholic education?

I don't know if you had an option to send your children elsewhere - many people don't - but the fact is that that was the school they were attending. You removed them from the religious aspect of the school as much as you could, which is fair enough, and your right. But you can't have it both ways; don't attend Roman Catholic services if you don't want to hear how the school and the church are so closely linked.

I'm not an advocate for religion in schools - quite the opposite - but if you participate in the system and exercise your right to withdraw from the religious aspect, then withdraw properly.

obplayer wrote: »

So how do you define Catholicism? Or any other religion? Is it simply a case of which leader / preacher you believe / like most?

Well, Catholicism is far more than one version of it outlined by the bishop of Rome. But since that was the version you were referring to, then it is defined by the teachings of Christ which it proclaims in its tenets; these do not include bans on women priests or contraception or whatever. These are human constructs. The thing is to be able to differentiate.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Most people don't. There are not many Educate Together schools, and they're usually full.

Approx 90% of primary schools are RC, 96% overall have a religious patron



I would not attend such a service - but it should be acknowledged that this means setting onself and one's family apart from the rest of the community. The problem here is that 'religion poisons everything' - the community is defined in small town Ireland as the RC church community, if you are not religious you ostracise yourself.

I don't live in a small town (thankfully - I'm sure they are wonderful in many ways but there are many aspects of them I'd want nothing to do with) but even in my fairly large Dublin suburb, there are no non-religious primary school options, and all the secondaries are both single-sex and catholic. At least at primary level there is a CoI co-ed school and it is a very good school. We are not looking forward to the transition to secondary though.

I'm well aware that most people don't have an option, and that is disgraceful. In the case of this particular poster, though, it would be important to know, as it would be relevant to his attitude.

By pulling his children out of religious education and the confirmation process, he would already have set them and his family apart. No one should have to do that in this day and age, but he did. So by going to the ceremony when he didn't have to, and then "taking offence" at the teachers' contribution to the Confirmation preparation and religious education in general, he is being inconsistent.

obplayer wrote: »

So every reader makes up their own interpretation of what is meant? You can just decide that if God is talking about slaughtering thousands he actually means giving them all a kiss? DIY religion!

They use their intelligence to put it everything in context. It's not that hard if you try; but you'd need a bit more than your facile reasoning.

obplayer wrote: »

Then, as I pointed out before, if you follow Christ you have to obey the Old Testament instructions.

No, you don't. Otherwise, Christians would be not eating pork or wearing mixed fabric clothing. And killing disrespectful children and homosexuals...

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

This despite the fact that the gospels are explicit in saying that the "laws" of the old testament still hold true. So Katydid's idea of a christian is a person who ignores the bits of christianity they personally don't like, not an exactly edifying position to argue.

If you consider that literal belief in the Bible, with all its contradictions and anomalies, is the mark of a Christian, then there are a handful of Christians on this planet.